If you're looking for a strong 2-drop just pick Warren Instigator. He's a bigger threat and a thousand times better than Wardriver.
I meant to say he is NOT comparable. The values of a 2 CMC creature versus a 3 CMC creature has very specific meanings. 2 CMC dudes are easier to vial, and given the count of other amounts of 2 CMC creatures in the deck dictate how you play your vial counters. It is easier to cast, being there are times where ripping that one land can be difficult.Originally Posted by FoxBlade
But at the same time, the power afforded to a 3 CMC creature is higher, given the static +1/+1 and extra haste effect. Also, in playing a match like counter balance the higher Mana cost has it's value.
Just got back from my 2nd Legacy event and got 4th place over all.
Event was at Redcap's Corner.
29 people showed up for the GPT
Deck was:
CORE
- Goblin Warchief
+4 Warren Instigator
+4 Goblin Chieftain
+3 Gempalm Incinerator
+1 Stingscourger
+1 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port
2 Chrome Mox
14 Mountain
Sideboard:
1 Pulverize
1 Meltdown
1 Goblin Tinkerer
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Mindbreak Trap
Round 1 - ANT
Win 2-1
Round 2 - Mud
Loss 0-2
Just a really bad match-up. He played his hand and I got 2 Lackey's out before he Kuldotha Forgemaster'd for a Blightsteel Colossus.
In: Meltdown, Goblin Tinkerer, Pulverize, 3 Pyrokinesis
Out: 4 Aether Vial, Stingscourger, Goblin Chieftain
Game 2 Wurmcoil Engine just beat my face and gained him lots of life. The last card I drew was a Goblin Tinkerer which was too little too late. It needed to be Pulverize for me to have had a chance.
Round 3 - ThopterTop
Draw 1-1-1
What a frustrating deck. Lost first game cause he had Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek out.
In: 3 artifact hate, 3 Relic of Progenitus
Out: 3 Gempalm Incinerator, 1 Stingscourger, 1 Goblin Warchief, 1 Goblin Chieftain
Game 2 Goblin Tinkerer blew up Ensnaring Bridge allowing me to swing for the win.
Game 3 started with 5 minutes left in the round. Went to turns and ended in a draw.
Round 4 - Fish
Won 2-0
Round 5 - Stoneforge Bant
Won 2-0
Piledriver proved to be the allstar by keeping 3 Rhox War Monk at bay.
Placed 6th out of 29.
Top 8 - Round 1: Combo Elves
Won 2-0
Should have lost this game. My opponent made 2 play mistakes and each cost him a game loss.
Top 8 - Round 2: ANT
Lost 0-2
Game 1 lost turn 2... What can you do.
In: 3 Mindbreak Trap, 3 Chalice of the Void, 3 Relic of Progenitus
Out: 4 Aether Vial, 3 Gempalm Incinerator, 1 Stingscourger, 1 Goblin Ringleader
Game 2 I mulled to 6 and got a CotV which I set at 0. I drew my 2nd one that turn. Turn 2 I needed a land and drew Chrome Mox which I attempted to play only to have the peanut gallery point out that it got countered by my first CotV... Wah wah. He went off the next turn.
Ended up getting 4th.
Hey,
congratz for the finish.
I'd like to read (more) about the first ANT match. Could you write something about it?
Last edited by GoboLord; 04-18-2011 at 07:53 AM.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Why?
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
aren't you working!
warchief are not to be messed with, they're simply that strong.
Without Goblin Warchief it's much more difficult to cast Ringleaders, Matrons etc. It's definitely wrong to play less than 4.
I supposeis a typing mistake and should rather be- Warchief.-1 Warchief
Otherwise his deck is missing 3 cards.
Still I agree with you three: DON'T. CUT. WARCHIEF.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
This is why you should run Warren Weirding and Stingscourger over Gempalm Incinerator. As long as Lackey (or Instigator) connects, you have a chance in every match-up.
When losing to Blightsteel Colossus, why do you think siding out Stingscourger is a good plan?
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
Hi guys, I have been stalking here for a moment and finally decided to join.
Question : I don't have enough money to get 4 badlands, could I splash black with :
- 4 http://deckbox.org/mtg/Auntie's%20Hovel
- 4 http://deckbox.org/mtg/Blackcleave%20Cliffs
- 4 http://deckbox.org/mtg/Wasteland
- 4 http://deckbox.org/mtg/Rishadan%20Port
- 6 http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mountain
Thank you for your opinion!
* Wasteland is a MUST - Rishadan Port isn't. If you want to save money you could probably leave out Rishadan Ports.
* Black Spalsh doesn't necessarily demand 4 Badlands. Depending on the number of Fetchlands and your decklist you coul also run 2 or 3 copies. e.g. You could run 6 fetchlands + 3 Badlands.
* Blackleave Cliff is a bad solution. I'd rather play Blood Crypt if you absolutely don't want to buy Badlands.
* If you want to save money you should consider running a mono-R list. Although B splash provides you with good cards there are very good alternatives in Mono R.
For more info read the following passages of the deckprimer:
3.2 Lands
6.3 Color: Splash vs. Mono
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Thanks! Sure.
My first ANT match-up was piloted by a different player than the one in the Top 8.
This was my first EVER game against ANT:
Game 1
He won the die roll and spent the first 2 turns cracking fetches and manipulating the top of his library.
I played Mountain, Lackey, go. I dropped something into play turn 2 but it didn't matter cause he went off turn 3.
In:
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Relic of Progenitus
Out:
3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Stingscourger
4 Aether Vial
I didn't actually intend to put the 2 Relics in but I had 8 dead cards so I figured I'd see what happened...
Game 2
I kept a hand with Lackey and CotV. Mountain, Lackey, CotV @ 0. Go.
Drew my second Cotv which I set at 1 and that was that.
Game 3
He mulled to 5 which was very fortunate for me. I kept a hand that had a Port, Mox, CotV, Instigator, Mountain and 2 other cards. He fetched for an island and played Brainstorm. I played Mountain, Mox, Instigator, and CotV @ 0. He couldn't find his 2nd land and passed to me. I swung with Instigator and he bounced it with Chain of Vapor. I dropped my port and replayed the Instigator. He finally gets a fetch and uses it for an Underground Sea. He passes and I connect with my Instigator dropping a SGC and Piledriver. I play Relic of Progenitus. EoT he uses Echoing Truth on my tokens.
I make a play mistake here. He never announces which token he was targeting and in a panic I sac one to SGC to get some use out of them. A better play would be to confirm which one he targeted and sac that so the other 2 survive. BUT in hindsight I'd have let him get my tokens because it was more important for me to keep him off black since CotV was keeping him from using Petal and LED.
So like an idiot I spend his next turn in a panic as he taps his sea for black to play Dark Ritual, then he takes it back. Then he thinks for 2 minutes. Then he plays it, then he takes it back. Eventually he uses the Dark Ritual and empties his hand to generate enough mana to play Infernal Tutor to look for Ill-Gotten Gains which he plays. I use my Relic to remove our graveyards and won the following turn.
Admittedly luck had some influence in my winning that game.
GoboLord was correct, I meant -1 Warchief.
To me the most important part of Goblins is haste. It lets our board explode from nothing to lethal. I would have loved to run all 8 Lords but I didn't want to play 61 cards... Out of curiosity, what card from the CORE could I have cut without hearing something about it? Originally I wanted to cut a Matron but I decided to keep them in case I came up against Sneak + Show. I built the deck the way I did to improve the speed at which I can go lethal so I couldn't cut Piledrivers... Aether Vial, Lackey, Ringleader... Playing with less than 4 of ANY of those is a mistake. I didn't want to cut a Warchief but since I had 4 Chieftains to keep them company I didn't mind that much. Plus 4 of the cards I added that most builds DON'T run can't get the benefit of Warchief's cost reduction. I only ran 4 pieces of removal main and was uncomfortable with that. Technically the 4th Warchief lost his place to a 3rd SGC. I don't know if I will ever run less than 3 of him.
As it turns out, I had no problems playing Ringleaders.
Stingscourger is incredible against Emrakul and Dreadnought when they cannot replay them without difficulty. I like it even better as a 4 of to clear the path for turn 1 Lackey in mono-red. However the MUD deck I played against had the following turn 1:
Ancient Tomb into Grim Monolith into Voltaic Key into Metalworker
If I had bounced Blightsteel Colossus he would have either replayed it that turn or the turn after. I needed Pulverize. It was my only out that could set me up for a win.
Last edited by Ace/Homebrew; 04-18-2011 at 06:37 PM. Reason: spelling
I don't know how SGC > warchief. Warchief is one of the most important Goblins. You oftne need all your mana for casting creatures or using abilities of Ports and Wastelands (which doesn't need mana but tapping itself). With Warchiefs your deck is more powerfull and has more speed.
IMO, 3 SGC are too much. They're looking fine with Lackeys and Instigator, but sometimes in hand, they are useless, because we don't have enough mana.
Never running less than 3 Warchiefs.
Stingscourger is not the best Answer, but is an answer because you have an extra turn with it. In the case above, you need removal to eliminate the worker which gives him up to 6 mana a turn later.However the MUD deck I played against had the following turn 1:
Ancient Tomb into Grim Monolith into Voltaic Key into Metalworker
If I had bounced Blightsteel Colossus he would have either replayed it that turn or the turn after. I needed Pulverize. It was my only out that could set me up for a win.
But at all, with Stingscourger, you have up to 4 turns to kill him, because he can't play Blightsteel Collossus on turn 3 (he "only" has 10 mana for using).
@all:
Last weekend I was playing Goblins as well (like I did all my last years) at a 65 players tournament by finishing badly 4:2
I was playing the list, Gobolorg published a few sides ago with little changes:
- 1 Warren instigator
+1 Warren Weirding
and I played main this manabase:
4 Badlands
1 Auntie's Hovel
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Arid Mesa
4 Wastelands
1 Volrath's Stronghold
5 Mountain
2 Chrome Mox
My Matchups were:
1st Round: MUD, I won 2:0
2nd turn: G/W featuring Stoneforger and Mother of Runes. I lost 0:2 (in the first game I kicked him down to 2 but he has an active Jitte, 2 Mother, Cold-Eyed Selkie and a Scryb Ranger and I could do nothing.
3nd round: G/W (...). Simular built like round 2. Simlar gameplay. I lost this also by having no removal and him haven too much Mother
4th round: Mono-W Lifegain Aggro. It was no classical Quinn. I won 2:0 because he did nothing and although he has about 40 Life in game one...I swarmed him.
5th round New horizon, I won 2:1 and lost one game to a tabernacle and a KotR which was too big.
6th round Team America. I won 2:0 and I thing he resolved about 3 Spells in both games. I only know, he played TA by looking at his lib after resolving Squad in game and turn 2.
All in all. It is difficult with only Incinerator beeing removal against aggro (like G/W). On the other hand it is really strong with Chrome Mox in the opening hand. Stingscourger is a good card anyway and often a timewalk plus 2 damage.
So...thanks for reading.
@GoboLord: you do a great job ;)
I think running a third Siege-Gang Commander over a Goblin Warchief is a mistake. I would sooner cut a Goblin Chieftain.
Still, I think siding out Stingscourger in this match-up is wrong. You said he Kuldotha Forgemaster'ed into Blightsteel Colossus. Chances are even MUD can't come up with 12 mana fast enough to hardcast that guy. A Stingscourger can save you in that scenario. Next to that, Blightsteel Colossus is indestructible, so if it's already on the table, your Pulverize does nothing.
Fixed
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
My RB Manabase is
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Auntie's Hovel
2 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Rishadan Port
5 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Wasteland
Goodbye gobbos, we had a nice run in this format...
Torpor Orb
Artifact - 2
Creatures entering the battlefield don’t cause abilities to trigger.
On a serious note, this card could really screw us over. You think that this card will see play enough play in Legacy that we will need to add extra artifact destruction to the board (shattering spree, etc.)? We difinitely have enough options in the arty-destruction category
Sure this card is a house against Goblins, but so is Tivadar's Crusade.
If there are 2 tier decks (other than Goblins) that use enough triggered abilities of creatures then I think this card could find it's way into some sideboards.
On the other hand you should not forget that Orb "only" smothers Matron, Ringleader and SGC's triggers not their whole bodies. SGC is still a very frightening card, even with it's CIP-trigger being stifled.
This card is less a "Goodbye Goblins" than a "Hello Dreadstill" and much more an absolute " Farewell Counterbalance!!".
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
I don't see this card getting any play in Legacy. All it shuts down is a couple goblins, a couple mefolk, Regal force, sower of temptation, stoneforge mystic (one of his abilities)... Not very much, really, and it doesn't negate the creature (which can still attack and block). It's application is pretty narrow, it does nothing against other triggered abilities, and it doesn't affect triggers that happen when a creature spell is cast (like Glimpse of Nature's). So, I'm not worried by it.
i wonder how will this card affect the broken turn 1 plays.
Mental Misstep PU
Instant (U)
Counter target spell with converted mana cost 1.
Hah!
Yeah, you're right. I should totally read that card
And Torpor Orb sucks but I don't see it hosing Goblins...
Most non-goblin players don't really put spots in their board just for us right? It's usually general 'anti-aggro' cards.
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