[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[TheDarkshineKnight]

lol

I second this motion.

[ThoSha]

Covetous Dragon is a fine replacement for Slogger. Slogger has no evasion and needs double red to cast. And how good Lodestone Golem is tied to how much equipment you opt to play maindeck. Early Golem + Equipment is a brutal combo that wins many games. Without equipment Golem is sometimes great but not always.

The more low power utility guys DS plays (Revoker, Magus, Simian, Golem) the stronger equipment becomes. And the more equipment the deck plays, the better it can support a playset of Covetous Dragon.

Still legacy doesn't play many creatures with 3 power. Other than Zoo, they all either play 1 or 2 power or 5+ power guys. And not many decks play Lightning Bolt either, just Zoo really.

Also, I was wrong about Seething Song, it's too strong not to play, especially with equipment, the acceleration I am unhappy with is Simian Spirit Guide.

And one last thought I had, what if we go balls to the walls with utility artifact creatures, equipment, chalice, trini etc enough to support replacing Chrome Mox with Mox Opal. We still play Moons, Covetous Dragon and not much other red stuff. Stuff like Metalworker, Monolith, Wurmcoil Engine and that protection from all colors guy could work.

Yes, of course we could do that. But why not going for Steel Stompy then?
RPD+Raiders seem alright in our deck, and i wouldn't run more artifact creatures than 8(Golem and Revoker if you wish).
And i believe that Covetous Dragon is an alright beater, but replacement for Arc Slogger? He is no removal and no disruption at all.

I think even Flametongue Kavu MD could be better than him, which i am not fond of either(not killing the */5+ dudes and doesnt have flash).

Btw, i just stumbled across Chariot of the Sun, which could also be tested. Helps Golem/RPD/Gathan fly for the last 5-10 damage.

[Gui]

I'm sure it was tested already by someone, and of course it has problems (as in "not red") but there's no reference for it in this thread, and I think it could be a replacement for Slogger -- Masticore/Razormane Masticore?

[TheDarkshineKnight]

Btw, i just stumbled across Chariot of the Sun, which could also be tested. Helps Golem/RPD/Gathan fly for the last 5-10 damage.

The reason I wouldn't run Chariot of the Sun is the same reason I don't like running quipment in Dragon Stompy: it does nothing by itself. Really, Dragon Stompy only likes to play two types of cards, namely mana sources and bombs. It wants to be as explosive as possible and throwing in cards that literally do nothing without a creature in play means you've lowered your threat density and thereby your explosiveness.

I'm sure it was tested already by someone, and of course it has problems (as in "not red") but there's no reference for it in this thread, and I think it could be a replacement for Slogger -- Masticore/Razormane Masticore?

I'm fairly certain that Razormane Masticore was played in older lists, actually. For whatever reason, though, he's gone now. However, you're giving me ideas for a different deck...

[Koby]

Btw, i just stumbled across Chariot of the Sun, which could also be tested. Helps Golem/RPD/Gathan fly for the last 5-10 damage.

Bladed Pinions is just miles better for such a purpose. Even then, it's still pretty bad. The dual-pro Swords are the best non-creature artifact you want in those slots available to you.

[ThoSha]

I agree on Chariot of the sun being just a worse equipment, i skipped that thought after 3 test games.
About Razormane Masticore, i really like this card in Sloggers place as a 3-of, but i am not sure about the rules tbh.
When you have to discard a card at the begin of your drawstep to maintain him, does that trigger before or after you draw the card?
If before, it is way weaker for our deck.

Edit: Nevermind, i misread on that. Yes it is damn weak when we need to keep hellbent before he comes to play.
Would have been too great to be true. =(

[Arsenal]

Masticore of any stripe doesn't meld well with the Hellbent theme we have. We vomit our hand fairly quickly, often times not having a card to pitch to Masticore. Also, if you have cards to pitch, then RPD and Gathan Raiders are turned off.

[ThoSha]

Price of Glory for Slogger anyone? =P
Hardcore disruption for almost every deck except ours xD

[ForlornEgoist]

The problem I often had with Razormane is that albeit it can help to enable Hellbent, but at the same time I often found myself purposefully keeping 1 card in hand just so I use his effect; I was effectively weakening my combat step to remove a threat. Sometimes its only necessary to use the effect once, but I often found myself falling into the trap of constantly wanting to abuse his effect which is detrimental to our 8 Hellbenters. I don't think hes a bad card, I just think that many other players fell into the same problems I did with him.

@ Price of Glory:

O.O.... (purchases playset).

ForlornEgoist

[GoboLord]

I don't want to sound harsh, but there are some points about the Pric of Glory that make it really unworthy to play:

This card does effectively do the follwing:

Player's can't play spell's during their opponent's turn.

* Price of Glory doesn't help against countermagic (the relevant countermagic doesn't need lands to be tapped)
* it doesn't help against big creatures (aka Goyf, KotR, Tombstalker)
* it effectively restricts removal to be played with instant speed - that's all
* we are ooking for better creatures because we already have very good screw-pieces. And: I don't get how this cardis comparable to Arc Slogger (reminds me of Alice in Wonderland: "How is a Raven like a Writingdesk?")

Therefore I don't think it's a strong choice (unless you are facing Solidarity in high numbers).

Different question:
What do you guys think of Aftershock? As reading through the deckprimer (again) I pondered about a Ponza-oriented version (again). This card just seems to fit in and could also make a good spot in "regular" DS sideboards.

[ThoSha]

I don't want to sound harsh, but there are some points about the Pric of Glory that make it really unworthy to play:

This card does effectively do the follwing:

Player's can't play spell's during their opponent's turn.

* Price of Glory doesn't help against countermagic (the relevant countermagic doesn't need lands to be tapped)
* it doesn't help against big creatures (aka Goyf, KotR, Tombstalker)
* it effectively restricts removal to be played with instant speed - that's all
* we are ooking for better creatures because we already have very good screw-pieces. And: I don't get how this cardis comparable to Arc Slogger (reminds me of Alice in Wonderland: "How is a Raven like a Writingdesk?")

Therefore I don't think it's a strong choice (unless you are facing Solidarity in high numbers).

I was just thinking about Price being chalice 5-7. Like you said it only restricts your opponent to not do stuff during your turn.
Lets say we play the Enchantment on turn 1 if we dont draw chalice but the hand is keepable, and Golem hits the field on Turn2, the enemy has to Sword our Golem for 2 as a sorcery, costing him a whole Turn without playing a threat himself. If he decides to do so, we use the timewalk for other threats going for the hellbent route. If he forces Price right away, he probably cannot force the next moon effect, leaving him screwed. Worst case, we have protection from wicked stuff messing up our more important turns.

Just my few thoughts about it, might be bad in reality of course. And of course its not a replacement for slogger in any way, i would just rather go down in creature count for playing something useful than play clumsy slogger tomorrow, which i dont know how to replace efficiently.

Regarding to Aftershock its a flexible card which can save games for sure.
I was just thinking the same as for Char, the lifeloss could be dangerous in some matchups, but maybe its just my
burn paranoia.

[NecroYawgmoth]

Masticore / Razormane / Molten-Tail -> it's Impossible to keep Hellbent with em, so forget it [also, they are Artifacts, Slogger can be imprinted if not needed] :D [maybe you could play them in non-Hellbent DS-versions xD]


Aftershock... hmmm Odysseus tested it as far as I know, but he haven't posted for a long time here =(

I always wanted to test it, but never did, because I always found cards which seemed to have more testing-potential. Additionally, I am a bit afraid of the 3 damage also, because we already play Tombs, but I need it to test someday =P


I don't think that Price of Glory does anything good, because every argument stated for it in the first turns is also true for Trinisphere


Replacements for Slogger, hmmm try Jaya if you don't care that she doesn't have haste, also there is Shatterskull which is 6/6 [which is enough against Goyf] [but Shatterskull is worse than Kargan IMO], or FTK... or you just could play Revokers main, which is pure awesomeness :D

[ThoSha]

Masticore / Razormane / Molten-Tail -> it's Impossible to keep Hellbent with em, so forget it [also, they are Artifacts, Slogger can be imprinted if not needed] :D [maybe you could play them in non-Hellbent DS-versions xD]


Aftershock... hmmm Odysseus tested it as far as I know, but he haven't posted for a long time here =(

I always wanted to test it, but never did, because I always found cards which seemed to have more testing-potential. Additionally, I am a bit afraid of the 3 damage also, because we already play Tombs, but I need it to test someday =P


I don't think that Price of Glory does anything good, because every argument stated for it in the first turns is also true for Trinisphere


Replacements for Slogger, hmmm try Jaya if you don't care that she doesn't have haste, also there is Shatterskull which is 6/6 [which is enough against Goyf] [but Shatterskull is worse than Kargan IMO], or FTK... or you just could play Revokers main, which is pure awesomeness :D

You are probably right.
I will tinker with Price later, since i dont want a bad tournament result based on something that SEEMED nice. =D
But compared to Trinisphere it can be imprinted on Chrome Mox and it has not a single drawback for us at all.

About the Slogger Replacement.. I already tried Jaya and failed horrible against Painterdecks and Bant because she doesnt do anything useful until she gets removed. First turn jaya seems ok, but 1RR on turn1 is not so easy to obtain, except you have SS.
Shatterskull seems like.. so damn bad. I dont wanna pay 6 mana over 2 turns just to have a goyf removal at best. He just cant do anything worthy imo. And Flametongue Kavu would be AWESOME³ if he wasn't just a Sorcery Char paired with a bad body.
Dont know about Kargan, but he doesnt seem right in this spot either for me. Needs a big time R invest to do anything.

And i tried Revoker in the main too. I really hate to play him when i am not entirely sure what my opponent is playing. Saving him for later in a hellbent deck also seems meh.

I'll probably go for 3 Mountain Yetis, since everyone in my meta uses that damn KotR. Defender of Chaos also seems nice.
Have you tested the Yeti yet?

[NecroYawgmoth]

...just toyed a bit around with Yeti... not much... can't tell much about him for now... except that he blocks KotRs like a champ =D

Don't forget that Kargan is good under a Moon, and that flying is a huge + in damageracing =)

[ForlornEgoist]

If you're reluctant to run Aftershock, just think about the opportunity cost of not running a 3-piece removal spell: they keep a Goyf/KotR that can easily kill any of our creatures or swing for at least 5-6, they get to keep a piece of equipment as well as what could be a basic saving them from mana screw via Moon effects. Ultimately, for the ability to nix 3 cards I think 3 life is well worth the investment.

Granted I have enough trouble casting RPD sometimes. --;


ForlornEgoist

[Koby]

RE: Protection from White
Why not run Wildfire Emissary? It can block non-white creatures much better; but not as evasive since it loses Mountainwalk.

[ThoSha]

Or maybe i'll simply replace my 3 Pyroclasm with 3 Anarchy and give arc slogger a last chance.
I guess I'll decide that tomorrow after watching the meta a little bit. Thanks for the suggestions tough. =)

[NecroYawgmoth]

so... If this card from the spoiled cards is real, what do you guys think?

Piest of Urabrask
Creature - Human Cleric uncommon
When ~ enters the Battlefield, add RRR to your mana pool.
2/1

It's basically a Priest of Gix in red. I think, she deserves testing, if its real. Opinions?

[PyreDream]

Some new toys, fresh from the mother of all spoilers over at MTGS:

Moltensteel Dragon 4PP
Artifact Creature - Dragon
4/4
(P) can be paid with R or 2 life
Flying
P: Moltensteel Dragon gets +1/+0 until end of turn.

Priest of Urabrask 2R
Creature - Human Cleric
2/1
When ~ enters the battlefield, add RRR to your mana pool.

Geosurge RRRR
Sorcery
Add RRRRRRR. Spend this mana only on creature or artifact spells.

Seems to me like a usable beater and a mana launderer would go a long way towards improving the deck's consistency. Not sure the ritual deserves a spot though.

[ThoSha]

This is so effing amazing.. Its just so freaking good. Its the missing peace for dragon stompy i've been searching.

The Red Priest seems nice too, i would give it a shot. Not sure what too cut tough. Slogger will definitly fall to the awesomeness above.
The dragon seems solid, but hes another artifact creature.. A clear no from my side.