[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[Masamune]

I found this: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ight=signature

Round 5 was against me xD. But I never played Revoker in game 1. He wrote that wrong

[Tivon]

Can u report what decks do you face to lose so easily?

By the way I'm training Dragom Stompy vs Dredge/ Ichorid decks and I'm losing...even if I play Trinis or Chalice. Ichorid itself screw me up aways. I don't take any SB slot for any grave-hate only to beat grave decks. I realize that Kazuul isn't that best option only facing Old Meta Suvival decks. This can be helpful with Bombs togheter.
Does anyone run grave-hates?

Vial aggro
Vial Tempo
Spiral Tide (on Mull to 3...)

Note, in all three matchups, revoker would have been great. Naming vial or candellabra of tawnos

I don't have problems with Ichorid personally. Between Moon, Chalice, and trinisphere our main is a pretty good beating. Throw in revokers naming discard outlets and it gets better. Ratchet bomb left at zero, while dysnyergous with chalice is pretty solid against a swarm of tokens. I used to run grave hate, but haven't missed it

[Masamune]

Vial aggro
Vial Tempo
Spiral Tide (on Mull to 3...)

Note, in all three matchups, revoker would have been great. Naming vial or candellabra of tawnos

I don't have problems with Ichorid personally. Between Moon, Chalice, and trinisphere our main is a pretty good beating. Throw in revokers naming discard outlets and it gets better. Ratchet bomb left at zero, while dysnyergous with chalice is pretty solid against a swarm of tokens. I used to run grave hate, but haven't missed it

@Moons: Ichorid can go with no lands avaiable just eating they own deck :s
@Chalice: Still woun't stop Dread return or Bridges that cames to grave
@Trinisphere: the best card against then IMO. But just delay a little
@Revoker: against what exactly? Flashback costs is static ability that works fine... Revoker is good only against LED
@Bomb: Ok, amazing eating tokens, not Ichorids yet

With no grave-hates I just pray for any avaiable screw card like Trinis in start hand or a CoTV and I pray also for not face Iona too early :x
My point is: ICHORID! Not tokens or flashback stuffs but Ichorid itself. Opp can swin 3 or even 6 damage every turn even watching us playing Moons/ Chalices...

[NecroYawgmoth]

yep, Ichorid is the most annoying part in Dredge.
Revoker can name Putrid Imp and Tireless Tribe, but that's not that much of a help. and Chalice 1 is usually better... Iona is also a B*tch

Dredge isn't THAT hard IMO, because many players can't really pilot the deck. IMO 2 Crypts [if any hate] is enough...

[Zirath]

yep, Ichorid is the most annoying part in Dredge.
Revoker can name Putrid Imp and Tireless Tribe, but that's not that much of a help. and Chalice 1 is usually better... Iona is also a B*tch

Dredge isn't THAT hard IMO, because many players can't really pilot the deck. IMO 2 Crypts [if any hate] is enough...

That will get you the bad Dredge players but the good ones can just steam roll you if you rely on that. A combination of Trinisphere and Chalice handles it well. Moons provoke them to throw a Firestorm to wipe your team.

[NecroYawgmoth]

So, 19 artifacts, make it 21 with 2 Molten, you can now run Covetous even without the artifact lands. Say you run 2 or 3 of them (you can run 4, w/e) and there you have consistant kill cons.

I like this line of thought. Now Covetous doesn't cost 4, so I'd say 3 Covetous, and now you got 2 slots remaining. I'd run either RPD, coz he's good even w/o hellbent, with the plus of being nutz good with hellbent, OR 2 Shatterskull Pass, which is 4cc 6/6 (since noone likes Shivan Wumpus somehow)

6 Mountain
4 Mountain Artifact
4 C-Mox
4 SSG
8 lands

4 priest of gix urabrask
4 trinis
4 chalice
4 moon
4 moon w/ legs
4 needle w/ legs
3 Covetous
2 Moltenstell
2 Lords, because not only merfolks are allowed to run them.
3 Jitte

Just my $0.02 w/ a list

I nearly totally agree with you...

I'd play 3 Covetous only because it costs 5 and is the finisher in this deck.
I don't know how good Moltensteel is in a non-hellbent list, cuz of the lifeloss and the not-so-all-in way.
Shatterskull is good, even if it is a bit clumsy, it's still the Red Goyf.

I think, we have a list like this then:

Screw:

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Phyrexian Revoker

Stuff:

4 Priest of Urabrask
3 Covetous Dragon
3 Umezawa's Jitte

Mana:

4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain

This leaves 4 slots. Now its the challenge to find out which cards are the best in these slots [Moltensteel / SoB&M / SoF&I / Metamorph / Shatterskull / FTK] -> I highly think more threads or 4 FTKs are needed / should be the last Slots.
[IMO it's FTK, because I <3 this card and we NEED to beat Merfolk]

maybe we could make -1 Jitte, +2SoB&M/SoF&I, +3 FTK for the last Slots.

opinions?

[GoboLord]

I nearly totally agree with you...

I'd play 3 Covetous only because it costs 5 and is the finisher in this deck.
I don't know how good Moltensteel is in a non-hellbent list, cuz of the lifeloss and the not-so-all-in way.
Shatterskull is good, even if it is a bit clumsy, it's still the Red Goyf.

I think, we have a list like this then:

Screw:

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Phyrexian Revoker

Stuff:

4 Priest of Urabrask
3 Covetous Dragon
3 Umezawa's Jitte

Mana:

4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain

This leaves 4 slots. Now its the challenge to find out which cards are the best in these slots [Moltensteel / SoB&M / SoF&I / Metamorph / Shatterskull / FTK] -> I highly think more threads or 4 FTKs are needed / should be the last Slots.
[IMO it's FTK, because I <3 this card and we NEED to beat Merfolk]

maybe we could make -1 Jitte, +2SoB&M/SoF&I, +3 FTK for the last Slots.

opinions?

My oppinion isn't based on nearly as much experience/testing as yours but my impression is that the creature count is actually very low. Therefore I'd say that FTK > Swords when you worry about the Merfolk MU.
Those protection-Swords may also be suited for SB to change them 3:3 with Jitte after G1. (or you run a 2-1-split of Jitte and Sword for MD and a respectively 1-2-Split in SB).

So my suggestions fo the remaining 4 Slots would be: +4FTK
(And maybe: -1 Jitte, +1 U-Sword)

[NecroYawgmoth]

My oppinion isn't based on nearly as much experience/testing as yours but my impression is that the creature count is actually very low. Therefore I'd say that FTK > Swords when you worry about the Merfolk MU.
Those protection-Swords may also be suited for SB to change them 3:3 with Jitte after G1. (or you run a 2-1-split of Jitte and Sword for MD and a respectively 1-2-Split in SB).

So my suggestions fo the remaining 4 Slots would be: +4FTK
(And maybe: -1 Jitte, +1 U-Sword)

yep, 19 creatures seem low, 1 more reason to run more creatures / Kavus...

My thoughts still telling me that a 2/2 split with Jitte and U-Swords still is the best configuration, but I could be wrong...

I don't want to play U-Swords in my board. I rather play Pyrokinesis or Firespout / Slagstorm...

[Gui]

Necro,
I'd still play the creatures to kill fast. I feel that the deck has to have one of these in hand if the lock piece we land t1 is strong enough, and since all of them has disadvantages, I prefer the way I splited them, with 2 moltensteel and 2 shatterskull. If not willing to run moltensteel, I'd still run 4 shatterskull, then.

Now, what I don't know if is good enough for the effect offered is Priest of Urabrask. It seems like "2/1 and play something else too" is too fair for this deck. Maybe by switching Urabrask for FTK, then I'd try something like this:

7 Mountain
3 Great Furnace
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Phyrexian Revoker

4 Flametongue Kavu
4 Lord of Shatterskull Pass
3 Covetous Dragon
3 Umezawa's Jitte

[d0ner]

If you play Covetous Dragon, then also play Great Furnace, like Gui does. Under Moon it's still an Artifact. The only Reason against is fear of wasteland, but Ancient Tomb fears this to...

[NecroYawgmoth]

The problem with this logic is that gettin a red mana-source wasted is much more devastating then getting a sol-land wasted. Also I don't think that you need artifact lands with 19(+) Artifacts...

[d0ner]

Thats the Point we are playing 8 Moon Effects ;)

[Masamune]

Hey guys! I found a way to handle Ichorid decks, just run FTK and kill itself to remove bridges! It seens like a weird strategy but I believe that is great

[Zirath]

Hey guys! I found a way to handle Ichorid decks, just run FTK and kill itself to remove bridges! It seens like a weird strategy but I believe that is great

It's not just the Bridges that are the problem. You need to be able to deal with Ichorid as well.

[NecroYawgmoth]

Hey guys! I found a way to handle Ichorid decks, just run FTK and kill itself to remove bridges! It seens like a weird strategy but I believe that is great

LOL -> made my day


btw, could you still tell me your actual sideboard? =P

[Masamune]

My SB (depending the current meta of course...):
1x Slogger
4x Revoker
4x Kinesis
4x R. Bombs
2x Anarchy

@Zirath
I agree but I hate see Ichorids going to grave and making fu*king zombie tokens...

[GoboLord]

The problem with this logic is that gettin a red mana-source wasted is much more devastating then getting a sol-land wasted. Also I don't think that you need artifact lands with 19(+) Artifacts...

That's correct.

Now that we are talkinbg about artifact-count: Did you guys already consider Etched Champion?

[ForlornEgoist]

That's correct.

Now that we are talkinbg about artifact-count: Did you guys already consider Etched Champion?

Not in-depth but I think most of us are reluctant to go with a full-on artifact build Champion seems to flourish strongest in as an artifact-build would want to run a higher equipment count to support what would be suspected as MD Revoker/Metamorph.

Ugh, went 2-2 tonight. For some reason everyone in my meta decided to pull out their Merfolk decks. Literally 8-9 people played it tonight in a meta of 25. ><' Luckily I had built a SB expecting tribal aggro (not Merfolk in particular as I saw goblins/knights/slivers and 1 Merfolk last week). Here's my list:


4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain

4 Chrome Mox
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Seething Song
4 Blood Moon

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Lord of Shatterskull Pass
4 Gathan Raiders
3 Arc Slogger
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury

2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
3 Taurean Mauler
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Firespout

Round 1: 43 Lands
Game 1: T1 Magus. Win. -3 Slogger, -1 CotV -2 3sphere, +4 Revoker, +2 Ratchet
Game 2: T2 Magus. I knew I had already won at this point as well, but to rub salt in the wound I went Revoker->Mox Diamond and used Ratchet to blow up his Exploration. Booyaka!

Round 2: NO Bant
Game 1: He goes T1 Fetch->Trop GSZ->Arbor, go. I T1 Tomb, Mox->Simian, 3sphere. He T2 Trygon. I T2 Morph RAkroma (Seething in hand). He T3 Atks, blows up Mox. By the time I draw into my second red source to cast Song he has a KotR/Trygon/'Goyf/Rhox. -4 Blood +4 Revoker
Game 2: I mull to 5 (Tomb/Mox/Simian/3sphere/Chalice). T4 he NO->Progenitus.

Round 3: Merfolk
Game 1: T1 Tomb-> Jitte. T1 Island. T2 Mox->Gathan, Song->Morphed Gathan, equip Jitte. T2 Island. T3 I swing Jitte +2. T3 Silvergill->LoA. I kill Silvergill EoT w/Jitte counter. T4 I drop a land, Song->Slogger, swing w/Gathan. He folds. -4 CotV, -4 Moon, -1 Magus. + 2 Kazuul, +2 Ratchet, +3 Mauler +2 Spout
Game 2: T1 Island. T1 Tomb/Mox->RAkroma->Song->Slogger. He attempts to Daze I RFG SSG. He T2 Island->Cursecatcher. Swing with Slogger, Mountain. He T3 Silvergill->Coralhelm, attacks w/Cursecatcher. I T3 LoSP, swing with Slogger; no blocks. He T4 Reejery. I T4 level-up Shatterskull, Shock Reejery/Silvergill, swing for 10 w/Slogger & Lord then Shock the remaining 2.

Round 4: Merfolk
Game 1: I forgot what happened exactly but from what I can remember I managed to get a leveled up Lord and a Hellbent Gathan on the field after getting a Chalice @ 2 which essentially won me it because he revealed 2 separate Coralhelms in his hand from 2 Silvergills (I knew it was 2 and not 1 'cuz I remembered which card he pulled from his hand to reveal) and I also knew he had a Daze in hand because earlier he was considering Dazing my Lord. -4 CotV -4 Blood -2 Magus +2 Kazuul +2 Ratchet +3 Mauler +3 Spout
Game 2: Essentially he uses 2 FoW and 2 Daze to stop my first 4 spells then runs over me with Merfolk.
Game 3: He mulled to 6. T1 Tomb->Ratchet. T1 Island->Cursecatcher. T2 Mox->Gathan, Morph in a Gathan. T2 Mutavault, Silvergill->Coralhelm. T3 Mountain->Lord swing with morphed Gathan, no blocks. T3 Island, Reejery. T4->Lord, swing w/Gathan, blocks with Reejery, Morph discarding Kazuul, Reejery dies. T4 Level-up Lord, swing with Lord/Hellbent Gathan, blocks Lord takes 5. T4 Island, pass. T5 play City sacing City, swing. T5 Sower->Lord. Shit! I topdeck a Spout thinking "Yes, I win!," then as I was about to cast it I realized: "Oh, wait. Sower has flying which I can't hit for lack of green. Dammit!" From here he is able to stall an attack for 3 turns, drops some extra Mutavaults to swing, then 5 turns later swings at me with my Lord, a Sower, a Cursecatcher, and 2 Mutavaults.

Literally 2-3 minutes before the tourney started I had seen at least 4-5 people goldfishing (ha!) Merfolk so I quickly changed my SB to try and be more competitive against Merfolk since I was confident I could handle the rest of the meta. As I've begun to notice more and more, Ratchet Bomb is utter junk. Seriously, it takes 3 bloody turns to rack up the necessary counters to remove the cards I need it to (Lords, KotR/Terravore, Enchantress stuff, etc.) which is more than sufficient time for all these decks to play around it.

I definitely wish I had SBed in Volcanic Fallout over Firespout. If 'Spout did the 3 damage to everything regardless of R/G I would keep it but I found out tonight that the flying was actually relevant. Not to mention the fact that in a meta of Merfolk the "uncounterable," woulda been nice although I don't intend to play DS for a while until the meta changes again.

Mauler-> Sexy against Merfolk. ^.^ Kazuul- fantastic against aggro and swarm decks like Merfolk.

Slogger's definitely pulled their weight tonight. I always had the worst time with them and hate them because of how many times they lost me a game but after removing the RPD's I've been finding them to be less troublesome as I can simply hang onto them until such a time when I can cast them rather than trying to frantically empty my hand for Hellbent. As for the Lord of Shatterskull Pass I thus far have found them to be an apt replacement for RPD. The 3R is much easier to cast than the 2RR, and after that additional 1R investment they can take down any opposing creature with exception to guys like KotR. Lord has been an incredible creature. I missed the Releases for Phyrexia so I was finally able to trade for some Moltensteels. I can't wait to test them out. Not sure what I'll take out for them, however. I might opt to remove possible 1 Blood and perhaps a Gathan for 2 Moltensteel. We'll see.

Anyway, yeah, I know I didn't post any real amazing results and its a small tournament but I still feel its important for us to post tourney results so we can see how various lists perform in given metas and whathaveyou.

A final thought: I think I might just buy/trade for a playset of Spinal Villain and throw 'em in the SB. Afterall, Merfolk is constant in my meta even if it isn't always 9 players and having an out to one of the worst MU's for DS seems nice. Or maybe I'm just spiteful. :P

Forlorn Egoist

[NecroYawgmoth]

That's correct.

Now that we are talkinbg about artifact-count: Did you guys already consider Etched Champion?

Etched Chamion seems funny, but a bit "too fair" -> 3 mana for a 2/2 that's only good with equipment, AND we need to maintain Metalcraft are high requirements.

Here is an older calculation from Stephen Menendian regarding Metalcraft:

"After crunching the numbers, it turns out that the threshold number of artifacts needed to draw 3 of them over 85% of the time in your opening hand is 33. With just 32 artifacts in your deck, you are only likely to draw 3 or in your opening hand 83.9% of the time. A marginal increase to 33 raises those chances to 86% of the time. Therefore, 33 artifacts is our baseline for reliable use of cards with Metalcraft. What this means is that, all things equal, any non-artifact card with Metalcraft will likely need at least 33 other artifacts in the deck."

@ ForlornEgoist: It sounds stupid, but if you haven't that turn 1-2 Spinal Villain it is likely always too slow against them. They will also most likely board Blasts, so maybe it's better to leave the COTV in the main, and board the Trinispheres out, cuz they can fuck you up with Wastelands...

[ForlornEgoist]

I doubt I'd ever actually run the Spinal Villain's because it doesn't really boost my board position when they have a bunch of merfolk swarming the field and let's face it the only other deck I could realistically use it against is probably Bant. Still, it would feel nice just once to resolve that T1 SV and just completely own them from the getgo rather than trying to become the god of topdecks as I attempt the resolve what I consider essentially moot disruption against their deck.

As for the CotV vs. 3sphere that was kinda a judgment call. You can make arguments for both. Since I've altered my creature base I've had a much stronger MU against Merfolk and have found the biggest annoyance to be resolving spells. I felt that if I kept the 3spheres in I could shut off their counterspells of which CotV does not. I pretty much never have the opportunity to get a Chalice @2, so I was looking at the Chalice @1 vs. 3sphere debate. Yeah, I nix BEB/Hydro/Vial/Pierce, but I also keep their 8 free counters enabled which is what I most often lose to in this MU. I decided to risk letting him get a few extra creatures/2-4 kill effects in exchange for shutting off 8-12 of his counters.

Albeit the Chalice @2 was relevant in my first Merfolk MU but I'm more than sure I would have won regardless of whether or not that had been a Chalice or a 3sphere. In fact, if I hadn't of had that Chalice@2 I could have gotten an active Jitte on the table. :/

Forlorn Egoist