[SCD] Mental Misstep

[Koby]

@rukcus: In a nutshell, you mean 'Mental Misstep makes blue decks stronger, and even though it COULD be played in other decks, it shouldn't be.' Am I right in making that statement?

Pretty much what I've been saying since about page 1 of this thread. :\

[(nameless one)]

COTV at one doesn't synergize well with the ridiculous blue cards in Legacy, and is generally relegated to fringe decks as a result. MM, on the other hand, fits right into all the pre-existing blue shells, making them stronger without improving other archetypes.

You just proved my point. Since Chalice is colorless, it can theoretically be played in any deck. Would it have synergy with all the decks?

Same thing with MM. It's 'colorless' and it can be played virtually in any deck but would everydeck play it?

[PanderAlexander]

You just proved my point. Since Chalice is colorless, it can theoretically be played in any deck. Would it have synergy with all the decks?

Same thing with MM. It's 'colorless' and it can be played virtually in any deck but would everydeck play it?

Not a good comparison, not everyone runs CotV because it also shuts off your own 1cc as well, no synergy like you said. MM on the otherhand can be incorporated in to any deck with no ill-effects besides card space.

[lorddotm]

@4eak

I'm friend with rukcus in real world life, and I know he doesn't mind me calling him a douche, I have a lot of love for him.

That is why nobody is in trouble. It still doesn't belong in this forum. Save it for Mish-Mash.
-4eak

[menace13]

@4eak

I'm friend with rukcus in real world life, and I know he doesn't mind me calling him a douche, I have a lot of love for him.

I know for a fact the he likes to be called names, he even goes out of his way sometimes to make you do so.

MMisstep is simply amazing and it will surpass Daze as the 2nd most played Counter.

[Forbiddian]

I know for a fact the he likes to be called names, he even goes out of his way sometimes to make you do so.

MMisstep is simply amazing and it will surpass Daze as the 2nd most played Counter.

I will go out on a limb and say it will surpass Force as the most-played counter. I can see a lot of decks running Misstep and no Force, but I can't see very many decks running Force without Misstep.


I know we should be waiting for new data, but the SCGs data just tossed a couple of rotting, fetid corpses into the "Misstep is good, not great" camp, yet there appear not to be any desertions.

I have two questions:

1) Even if the hype dies down, what will happen? It's the best answer to itself. If you can reasonably expect your opponents are running it, then it increases the need to be running it. If anything, the recent results will increase the necessity to run Mental Misstep, even in non-blue decks.

2) More honest question: What data would it take to convince you that Mental Misstep is great, not good? Certainly the background population out of the tournament was not 7/8ths Mental Misstep decks, so we can conclude that Mental Misstep decks outperformed non-Mental Misstep decks in that event. It can't simply be attributable to hype.

[Gui]

2) More honest question: What data would it take to convince you that Mental Misstep is great, not good? Certainly the background population out of the tournament was not 7/8ths Mental Misstep decks, so we can conclude that Mental Misstep decks outperformed non-Mental Misstep decks in that event. It can't simply be attributable to hype.

Now can't it? I really want to see the deck breakdown from the event... besides, if the best players are playing MM, it will likely outperform non-MM decks, as they would if they were playing somethingelse.dec, cos they are good players.

[Forbiddian]

Now can't it? I really want to see the deck breakdown from the event... besides, if the best players are playing MM, it will likely outperform non-MM decks, as they would if they were playing somethingelse.dec, cos they are good players.

If the best players are playing Mental Misstep, does this not prove my point? There's a reason why they're good players and other people aren't....

To quote

As long as ordinary people and various pros continue to ejaculate rainbows over how formatpocalyptic Misstep is, people will overwhelmingly want to play blue-based decks like Merfolk and Landstill (lol) that can use the card effectively (lol @ IBA)

The real accusation is that average players believe in Mental Misstep, creating hype.

[BooleanLobster]

The pre-NPH Legacy meta was awesome. The previous two Opens each had 13-14 different decks in the Top 16. The two before those had 10-11 each. Look at this beautiful graphic Cabal_chan made of the T8 meta. That is by archetype - NO Bant, CB Bant, and Aggro Bant are mashed together.
But this was an awful Top 16. Only six different decks? Six copies of the same deck? 13/16 blue decks?

This meta must be fixed. No more theorycrafting please. We need data.

1) What decks would you expect to beat Merfolk without sucking in general? Zoo? Aggro Loam? Deed-Rock? Elves? D&T / G&T? That Ivory Stompy thing in N&D?

2) Pick one and test the matchup. If you have extra time, test the hopeful candidates against the rest of that Top 16.

3) Report your results, please.

[Michael Keller]

The pre-NPH Legacy meta was awesome. The previous two Opens each had 13-14 different decks in the Top 16. The two before those had 10-11 each. Look at this beautiful graphic Cabal_chan made of the T8 meta. That is by archetype - NO Bant, CB Bant, and Aggro Bant are mashed together.
But this was an awful Top 16. Only six different decks? Six copies of the same deck? 13/16 blue decks?

This meta must be fixed. No more theorycrafting please. We need data.

1) What decks would you expect to beat Merfolk without sucking in general? Zoo? Aggro Loam? Deed-Rock? Elves? D&T / G&T? That Ivory Stompy thing in N&D?

2) Pick one and test the matchup. If you have extra time, test the hopeful candidates against the rest of that Top 16.

3) Report your results, please.

How do you propose fixing a generalized meta when a brand new set saturated with several high-profile Legacy options have burrowed their way into the mainstream?

Only time will determine the amount of playing time these cards will see on a regular basis; theory-crafting is practically irrelevant at this point when you consider the minimal amount of raw data available based on one tournament - which also happened to be one of their lowest turnouts for a Legacy Open in quite some time.

[GradStudentGuy]

Mental Misstep will have an impact on Tempo and Blue decks giving them more options on the draw. I don't think the current Results of the last open should worry anyone about the meta game. People will switch to higher Mana Curve decks with less critical one drops MUD, Rock , 12 Post, Enchantress, ect. Of course the meta will then switch a bit to handle these decks. Eventuality Misstep hype will die down and we will see the same diverse meta that we are more use to. This does not mean that it will be the same meta. The card has changed the format and degree of the change however is yet unknown. I feel there are some decks that will get less competitive because of the card. For instance Merfolk and Goblins match up has changed a bit because of the card.

[Digital Devil]

I don't want to look like a troll, but I noticed a weird thing: Green Sun's Zenith, although worse than Survival of the Fittest, fulfills a similar role. Mental Misstep, although worse than Force of Will, fulfills a similar role. Both original version need another card to work at their best (a creature card for SotF or a blue card for FoW), while the "newer" versions do not. Both Zenith and Misstep made many Eternal players (at least here) open packs at Prerelease and Release Events. Isn't Wizards trying to indirectly push the Eternal formats by banning cards only to see them fixed with a similar reprint? I mean, FoW is a fair card, and I really like Alliances' free spells. I don't know anything about economics, too, so I don't know why Wizards should be doing it: I was thinking, if they released GSZ just after the latest R&D update, can't be the printing of Mental Misstep a signal they're going to ban FoW, thus making MM stronger, while filling the gap with either MM itself or another powerful card which is going to be released, yet?

[Nonex]

Wizards once stated that they design new editions around 18 months ahead of their releases. If that's still true, Green Sun's Zenith was born while Zendikar booster packs were being sold out thanks to the new fetchlands. They couldn't know Vengevine would force them to ban anything.

[Digital Devil]

Wizards once stated that they design new editions around 18 months ahead of their releases. If that's still true, Green Sun's Zenith was born while Zendikar booster packs were being sold out thanks to the new fetchlands. They couldn't know Vengevine would force them to ban anything.

Maybe they decided long time ago to ban tutors and they forced the printing of Iona and Vengevine only to justify that thing. This way they knew they'd have earned money with Iona and Vengevine, but also with GSZ. I mean, I know my theory was kinda weird - I was only asking if someone had my same idea. Luckily, knowing they design sets long before their printing calms me down, because although I don't play FoW, I hope it will always remain legal.

[tsabo_tavoc]

Maybe they decided long time ago to ban tutors and they forced the printing of Iona and Vengevine only to justify that thing. This way they knew they'd have earned money with Iona and Vengevine, but also with GSZ. I mean, I know my theory was kinda weird - I was only asking if someone had my same idea. Luckily, knowing they design sets long before their printing calms me down, because although I don't play FoW, I hope it will always remain legal.

Reprinting FOW (not in standard, but in other box products) will grab them more cash than printing Iona, GSZ and MMS.

[Star|Scream]

Maybe they decided long time ago to ban tutors and they forced the printing of Iona and Vengevine only to justify that thing. This way they knew they'd have earned money with Iona and Vengevine, but also with GSZ. I mean, I know my theory was kinda weird - I was only asking if someone had my same idea. Luckily, knowing they design sets long before their printing calms me down, because although I don't play FoW, I hope it will always remain legal.

Honestly I had a similar idea: Wizards created a less-powerful free counter, that can still (attempt to) counter broken turn 1 plays, but for < $50/each, and then ban FOW. It would drive the entire legacy scene bonkers though, and probably won't happen, but the idea isn't THAT far-fetched.

Either that or they really don't care about Legacy at ALL. I can't think of any other reason for printing this card. Isn't blue (in legacy) powerful enough? Is draw-go landstill really fun to play (with and against?)

[Mr. Safety]

Has anyone said this yet: Mental Misstep is Wizards attempt at re-printing Force of Will...without actually re-printing Force of Will? Honestly, it gives legacy noobies like me a way to compete. I can't afford dropping $200 on a set of Forces (and I think that is probably a conservative estimate...)

[Amon Amarth]

If the best players are playing Mental Misstep, does this not prove my point? There's a reason why they're good players and other people aren't....

To quote


The real accusation is that average players believe in Mental Misstep, creating hype.

Pro players play suboptimal decks all the time, especially in something like Legacy where there isn't time to test everything. Cephalid Breakfast anyone? They win because they are better players. It really doesn't matter what they play.

[4eak]

@ Mr. Safety

That is an interesting argument. Wizards might be trying to do what you say, but regardless, it isn't working. MM makes Force of Will better, and it seems MM belongs in a deck with FoW (and not really without). So, rather than MM being a way to replace FoW in any manner, it simply complements and strengthens FoW, making FoW that much more important to run if you are playing MM. It looks like dropping $200 is still worth it. This might too hasty a conclusion though; clearly MM can be played in non-blue decks, and maybe we've not given deck-builders and the metagame enough time to see what MM can really do and how it will really impact Legacy.


peace,
4eak

[Star|Scream]

Has anyone said this yet: Mental Misstep is Wizards attempt at re-printing Force of Will...without actually re-printing Force of Will? Honestly, it gives legacy noobies like me a way to compete. I can't afford dropping $200 on a set of Forces (and I think that is probably a conservative estimate...)

No, obviously Wizards hasn't said this. It's just baseless speculation.