This thread is the equivalent of a bunch of lesser comic book superheroes sitting around and talking about how overrated Superman is. No, he isn't. If you need someone to come to your rescue, you pick the guy who's immune to bullets, can fly, has x-ray vision, bends steel, etc. You don't call Aquaman.
Blue is amazing. Deal with it.
Furthermore, comparing the structure of Vintage to the structure of Legacy is pointless. Vintage is the way it is because broken cards were printed at a time when nobody involved in Magic had any clue how to balance power levels of cards. Ancestral Recall was part of the same cycle as Healing Salve, for god's sake.
Legacy is the way it is right now because of Mental Misstep. Legacy is the way it is right now because they did what Wizards does every so often: Print a card without thinking clearly.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think Mental Misstep made the format worse. I was so tired of Legacy being a gauntlet of impossible combo decks. I'm glad Dredge is weakened. I'm glad Storm Combo is weakened. I'm glad Belcher and Elf Combo are much more beatable now. I'm glad, for the most part, that you have to have a little bit of playskill to succeed in Legacy right now. I'm glad combat math exists again. I'm glad the format, on the whole, doesn't reward terrible magic players who learn one combo and can get lucky and beat you.
That said, I don't think Mental Misstep really made the format much better, either, because now there's absolutely no reason to not play blue in your deck. Combo is blue, control is blue, aggro is blue, and aggro control is blue. You can get 8+ free counters in your deck by splashing blue now without having to run more than 8 blue cards.
Originally Posted by majikal
Agreed, they power creep all over, that's a fair point, but doesn't help much when the power creep version is then turned into multicolor as if multicolor () was harder to get then monocolor (
), when in fact, it isn't.
You missed my point - I never said GG/WW/UU were good. I was actually saying cards with this kind of cost should have better/greater effects than the multicolored costs, because they are BAD.And to your point, having colored cost of the same mana symbol e.g. GG/WW/UU is usually 'bad' because in Legacy, most decks are splashing colors...
Hmpf. Zerk is good, you don't know what you are saying >.<However, it is hard to see Berserk Stompy (no harm intended Gui! :P) or mono colored decks being the most competitive decks
...
Legacy is primarily dual/tri colored because there is little reason not to splash colors to gain power level. The nice thing is this is kept in check by Wasteland/Moon/Stifle. Format is pretty awesome, nothing is ever too overpowered and everything is kept in check by something e.g. blue by Merfolks and vial decks.
It beatz blue decks, it has to be good.
On a more serious note, I actually like that the format lets you splash for 3 colors and lets you play solutions against these decks like Wasteland/Moon/B2B. What I was looking for was more incentive to stay monocolor too. You don't need to print solutions from other colors (as for counters in green); Just make something that makes not-splashing somehow attractive (Black got more of these, withcosting cards)
But this is no big deal either, I like the format the way it is, I would just enjoy some love for monocolored decks, but I figure I'm being unfair at this point, since Elves, Goblins and Merfolks exists... oh, and that red Tribal, "Lightnings".
Last edited by Gui; 06-07-2011 at 01:50 PM. Reason: better phrasing
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
In the previous year, 10 out of 16 SCG Open winners had at least some blue; before that, it was 1 out of 5.
In Chronological descending order, GP Columbus 2.0 had 7 out of 8 Blue decks, GP Madrid 5 out of 8, GP Chicago had 4 out of 8. GP Columbus 1.0, where it was actually possible to play Hulk-Flash, still only had 5 players in the top 8 running blue. At GP Lille it was 4 out of 8. At GP Philadelphia, only 3 out of 8 players ran blue.
So short answer, "No."
Your point is incoherent, and since Superman is a terrible character who creates a huge plot drag on the universe he's written into, your analogy fails in every way possible.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
Before Mental Misstep blue was the best deck. Before Counterbalance blue was the best deck. Before solidarity.. well you get the point.
Mental Misstep just makes blue decks get another free counter, but I think in the long run this free counter will have more of a impact on other non-blue decks since they get to abuse it as well. (Daze is my situational comparison)Daze of course requires Islands and does something completely different for the cost, but Mental Misstep is one of the closest things to it. Mental Misstep makes all decks better since you get four Mental Misstep, and that my friends is the format logic.
Aquaman can swim under the sea, so does that mean he has islandwalk and can stop blue players creatures via Sower of Temptation effect on ala blue?
Team Shit Sandwich; smelling bad so you don't have to.
Before Solidarity and arguably during it Goblins was the best deck.
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Don't disrespect my dojo dude...
Sweep the leg!
Blue hasn't always been the best color, and it certainly hasn't always been this dominant, or even cloe to it. Hell, I just posted some fucking numbers on this, can people stop talking out of ignorance?
To add to the previous list, the blue count in the top 8 of GenCon championships has been
2008: 3/8
2009: 7/8
2010: 5/8
When Worlds had Legacy as a format in 2007, the decks that finished 4-1 or better in that portion were;
34/53 blue.
With most decks running 2.4 colors to start with, 2:1 is a Hell of a different ratio from the 5:1 to 7:1 we're seeing now.
Blue has been helped enormously by a few things in recent years; the printing of Jace and powerful merfolk, as well as more powerful, splashable cards that fit in with many historic blue decks' strategies like Knight of the Reliquary and Goyf, the development of better combo lists and the printing or unbanning of cards that help combo enormously; Ad Nauseum, Emrakul, Hive Mind, Iona, Entomb, Time Spiral, and to some extent, arguably the banning of Survival.
Blue may also be suffering from overhype at the moment; if people keep saying that the only option is to play blue, then a lot of people will do so and numbers will tell regardless of whether Zoo and Goblins are as dead as claimed (a demise the rumors of which may have been greatly exaggerated).
But it is certainly not an inevitability and a natural thing that should just be accepted, even desired, that Legacy be a blue-only format.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
Master Shakes article linked here has a breakdown of the top 32:
blue 21
non-blue 11
Seems pretty similar to earlier numbers.
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I can't believe you're arguing for the banning of Superman!
Banning Superman would actually be eminently reasonable, and the DC restart offers a perfect chance to do that. Failing that, they ought to restore him to his original casting, where his powers were merely being really strong, hard to hit, and being fast/able to jump pretty high.
But that's a derail.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
How does FoW break the format? It doesn't win you games, you 2-for-1 yourself, and the deck that won the GP had none, in spite of playing blue.
The fact that combo can play FoW means that it can actually compete with other decks instead of auto-lose. Perhaps you just hate combo?
Mental Misstep is actually a lot more wrong than FoW. It's a 1-for-1, and it does not require you to invest in any other blue cards whatsoever. How is overextended more diverse? Overextended doesn't even exist, so there is no metagame, so anyone can play any terrible deck they want. If people actually played it, the real decks would quickly emerge, and I'm pretty sure it would be a lot less diverse than legacy.
It's not that the colors are unbalanced, it's that the better players play blue, and they win because they are better. Also, expecting to get into legacy without putting in some money is an unreasonable expectation. Every archetype has some cards that are expensive, and it's usually the dual lands.
Actually FoW brings variance to the game. I'm sure no one would enjoy losing to Tendrils decks every single round, which is what would happen if FoW were to be banned.
I am actually not invested in color psychographics or playstyles, I just play decks based on interactions, not colors. My favorite deck is 43lands, which doesn't even really have colors. The color pie is less relevant in eternal formats because WOTC has broken it over and over.
The format isn't going some way. There have been FoW decks all along. But it's good that you're trying to develop nonblue decks. Having more decks is always better, regardless of the color.
Lawl, this blue is played by better players is bullshit. These players are better because they PLAY BLUE. Reality is most the blue decks in the format play themselves, fighting blue takes more complex trains of thought. And, I quite enjoy the challenge :P
The pros play blue because they know its the best and they are PRO PLAYERS. They won't settle for playing second best since they have a job to do. You don't mop your floor with a sponge when you own a mop.
Edit: Force of will isn't broken, mental misstep probably is though. Time will tell.
I sat next to GerryT at the DC Open. He was playing Elves. Jesse Hatfield played Zoo a few weeks ago. Pros don't always play blue.
I can understand Elves, they are actually a really strong deck in the hands of a competent pilot. Zoo on the other hand really lost its oomph with the printing of Mental Misstep, it just isn't the deck to play anymore. The good news is I think black decks are going to comeback into the metagame in a big way once people realize Phyrexian Obliterator is just insane once it hits the board.
I don't think blue decks by and large are hard to pilot or reward play skill nearly as much as most other decks in the format. Elves takes a hell of a lot to think through, Goblins have all sorts of tricky plays built in, Zoo actually has more decisions to make. Think about it Blue has simple choices to make:
1 Do I want this spell to resolve?
2 Does it cost 1 or 2
3 Do I have an island in play
4 Do I have a blue card in hand
Yeah, to say blue is complicated is a complete and total farce. One of the main reasons I don't like playing blue is the deck ends up the same and piloting itself, there really isn't that much fun to be had. Oh and the lazy deck construction it leads to:
4x Brainstorm
4x Mental Misstep
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
4x Spellsnare/Pierce <-- Finally have to turn my brain on and we are almost halfway done!
If I am not splashing more than one color for my win condition the deck further builds itself:
4x Stifle
4x Wasteland
Throw your lands and win conditions in and give it a name that isn't Really just a blue deck.
So, we are playing in a metagame infested by Tempo decks. Oh no wait, Stifle+Wasteland is playable only if "I am splashing more than one color". Monoblue Canadian Threshold, Monoblue Dark Threshold, Monoblue Team America.
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Have you actually ever played blue? If so, have you ever been good at it? The answer to one of these questions has to be no.
Ad hominem = no-no. Verbal warning for flame-baiting. - Bardo
In this thread people convince themselves they are big boys because they play with certain cards. lol
CmON guyz!!! its not that the {Soviet tank rush|Orc Bloodlust|4Warpgate|ETC.} is overpowered, all the best players just love how aesthetically pleasing it is.
I was trying to say it's not that simple to play control. Yes, you can autopilot with it, but if you want to be successful, you have to learn how to get out of difficult scenarios, which requires restraint and good usage of resources.
Then just say that and don't antagonize others in this thread.
The same goes for everyone else doing the same. - Bardo
Last edited by Bardo; 06-14-2011 at 02:21 AM.
Or cast a Natural Order and win :P
Yes, I have in fact played blue. Only on MWS since I haven't exactly collected all the blue staples or the blue lands. I have duels in black, red, green and white but none that tap for U nor do I care to buy them since I don't really like playing the color. I find it good to know my enemy and how he is thinking and the best way to acomplish this is to play his deck awhile. Post MM blue decks don't lend themselves to getting into bad situations often and they really don't have any truely tricky thought filled plays to get out of them. Brainstorm and hope to find their answer isn't tricky. (This applies more to blue aggro control not so much landstill). Landstill is tricky cause you gotta try not to fall asleep while you play it ;D
And, to respond to above I said if I am NOT splashing two colors then Stifle + waste is an auto include or I am doing it wrong.
You are doing it wrong. Merfolk nor U/w landstill nor monoblue control use the wasteland+stifle combo. Hive mind is a blue deck too right? Should it have the wasteland+stifle combo?
i do think blue pilots have to study the field more than anyone else. Its knowing what and when to counter something that matters. You might not always counter something on turn 4 but you might want to counter it earlier if you have the chance.
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