[Deck] GW/x Maverick

[Koby]

Is anyone running 1-2 Elsepth along with 2 Libraries, or does that dilute the deck too much and leave us with not enough creatures? It could lead to some awkward starting hands with no business, and I like making the deck as consistent as I can.

I started off with 2 Library 2 Elspeth, then quickly started cutting Elspeth for that reason. I run 1x Elspeth in the sideboard for the matchups where she's relevant (Hello Jace!)

[Mr.Dieth]

Hi, this weekend I played this list. I finished 3/4th, losing the quarter final to BUG landstill. Deed + jace really own's maverick. I could never get a grip on the game, He was in control all the time. What can I do to improve that match up? Because, it is really really bad with my current build.

3 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scryb Ranger
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 thrun, the last troll
1 terravore
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Mental Misstep
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of feast and famine
1 batterskull

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 gaea's cradle
4 Wasteland
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains

SB
2 true believer
2 Path to Exile
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Choke
1 gaddock teeg
1 serenity
2 life from the loam
1 bojuka bog
1 /forgot/

[timmycolossus]

I guess first up describe the games and what you think you did wrong. Also tell us what you sided in and sided out. I think sword of light and shadow would be good. Being able to bring back creatures is important in this match up. Also hitting their manabase with life from the loam choke and gy hate is key to shutting off their own life from the loam. The last thing is you usually need one fatty on the board so that their deed does not do as much harm to you.

[Mr.Dieth]

played 3 games against him, lost all three ( 1 was for fun )

preside: Not even close. Starting from turn three he started chaining standstill's. Countering/killing my treat's ( knight's ..) deed + jace is Really Really painfull.

after side. I sided +2 choke +2 lftl +2 tutor. I took out: -2scryb ranger -2stoneforge -1 jitte -1sword of feast and famine. ( now that I think of it, I probably should have took out the stp, But I wanted to go for the landkill plan so i kept the stp's in for killing mutavault and mishra ( played 1 mutavault and 4 mishra ).

So my plan after side was to generate CA with loam, and recur wastelands while getting choke's into play. Somehow this didn't work to well, because deed kills the choke. ( I do have to say he drew them well ) and he just countered the loam again and again. and wich point he had enough mana and jace took the game..

I really couldn't do much. I thought about putting pithing needle to shut the deed out. they do not have a lots of outs to that I think. but in hindsight, I'm guessing how I sided was wrong. Right?

[CorpT]

I guess first up describe the games and what you think you did wrong. Also tell us what you sided in and sided out. I think sword of light and shadow would be good. Being able to bring back creatures is important in this match up. Also hitting their manabase with life from the loam choke and gy hate is key to shutting off their own life from the loam. The last thing is you usually need one fatty on the board so that their deed does not do as much harm to you.

I think you are seriously overrating SoLaS. SoLaS requires a creature to make it through a turn, attack and connect to a player in order to get one creature back (the life gain is irrelevant). The Pro Black is good, but catching them without removal is pretty unlikely. Especially because Jace can bounce the creature or Deed can kill it anyway. The way to beat BUG Still type decks are recurring creature generation. In this case, Elspeth is the way to do it. Everything else just dies to Deed. Needle for Deed will help as well.

[Koby]

I think you are seriously overrating SoLaS. SoLaS requires a creature to make it through a turn, attack and connect to a player in order to get one creature back (the life gain is irrelevant). The Pro Black is good, but catching them without removal is pretty unlikely. Especially because Jace can bounce the creature or Deed can kill it anyway. The way to beat BUG Still type decks are recurring creature generation. In this case, Elspeth is the way to do it. Everything else just dies to Deed. Needle for Deed will help as well.

Hate to break it to you, but every equipment requires that condition. Against Deed, you're rather just get Thrun anyway, which answers all 3 - removal, Jace, and Deed.

[CorpT]

Hate to break it to you, but every equipment requires that condition. Against Deed, you're rather just get Thrun anyway, which answers all 3 - removal, Jace, and Deed.

That was kind of my point. Elspeth dodges removal, jace (mostly) and Deed. So does Thrun. Equipment isn't good against them. Timmy said that SoLaS is good against them. I disagreed. Elspeth has the advantage of giving flying to get around recycled Mishras, Thrun has the advantage of being good with Teeg.

[Tao]

You sided bad. Side out Maze of Ith as the first thing you do! Also side out your 4 Swords. It is annoying when they start recurring Mishras but usually you would lose those games anyway if their board is so far advanced that they can afford to sacrifce Land drops for life points. Don't side out Stoneforge and the Sword, they are both better than Removal against UGB. But you need one Equipment that does something more relevant against control. Either SoLaS or SoFaI.

Don't side in E Tutor. It creates card disadvantage if they counter Choke (and they usually will unless they can Deed anyway).

I think Elspeth is a much superior choice in the SB against control. IBA had the very good idea of siding in Dauntless Escort against Deed. I currently try the Parallax Wave so Elspeth is in my side. I side in 2 Elspeth, 1 Selkie, 1 Escort and on the play I side in the 4 Thorns. A turn 2 Thorn can ruin their game. It slows them down and they can hardly Deed+blow up Deed or Deed + counterbackup or Jace + anything in the same turn if it resolves so you can Qasali the Deed. This is how my side looks atm.

SB: 4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
SB: 2 [ARC] Path to Exile
SB: 2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [NPH] Mental Misstep (3 Main Deck)
SB: 1 [EVE] Cold-Eyed Selkie
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [ARB] Dauntless Escort
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog

[schniggaz]

Thumbs up for Tao. Everything he said in his post is excellent. Just take his advice and the matchup isn't that difficult. In my opinion the only equipment I would side out against UGB Landstill is Umezawa's Jitte.

@Tao: Do you go to Iserlohn in 3 weeks (german nationals)?
I would like to talk about the deck and the different directions it can go (Parallax Wave or not; Misstep or Mother.. and so on)

[Fatal]

BUGStill it thought MU - Life from Loam and dryad arbor with reasonable play make the job - but not always - it's not favorable MU - depends on your hand and draws.

Actually I'm focus on Bant Aggro MU which is similar to our deckbase but adding Jace and Cliques.

After all I found that Cliques aren't problem Scryb Ranger made the job, but CQ after Qliques changes so we need an other weapon to fight against Jace and opposite KotR, so after few weeks of research i found that Beast Within is idea solution for that. It's instant speed so still can make CA on table, it kills Jaces and opposite KotR's. It has drawback, specially with exalted but 3/3 dude doesn't win the game as Jace or KotR's. Feel free to comment this solution.

[TossUsToLions]

I don't think that KotR is a problem, but Jace sometimes is. Against opposing Knights, we can always tutor up a Terravore to win the battle, or after boarding side in a Loaming Shaman (shuffling 7 or more lands from their gy to their decks is usually gg). Even a singleton Bojuka Bog in the board is good enough in the Knight mirrors. I also have extra spot removal (Paths) in the board.

Against Jace, Mom is probably our best bet. SoBM works too, but the abilities are obviously suboptimal.

Let us know how Beast Within works out for you. I think it is better than ORing and Pithing Needle (because Bant decks usually run a few Pridemages), but i'm not sure. I also don't know what other matchups we would rather have Beast Within than something else, like Krosan Grip, Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker, etc.

[timmycolossus]

I think you are seriously overrating SoLaS. SoLaS requires a creature to make it through a turn, attack and connect to a player in order to get one creature back (the life gain is irrelevant). The Pro Black is good, but catching them without removal is pretty unlikely. Especially because Jace can bounce the creature or Deed can kill it anyway. The way to beat BUG Still type decks are recurring creature generation. In this case, Elspeth is the way to do it. Everything else just dies to Deed. Needle for Deed will help as well.

You are correct in that elspeth is really good here along with the other suggestions. I am just pointing out that sword of light and shadow can be good here. Sword of feast and famine can also be good here its just I would prefer to recur a pridemage or scyrb ranger than having them discard a card. Life gain is irrelevant the problack and recur is revelant I beleive. Imo best scenario would be scyrb ranger with with SOFF or SOLS. But I would play elspeth to thwart bug landstill.

[timmycolossus]

@Fatal: I know it depends on the meta but I am in love with sword of light and shadow. I tested it like you said and preferred batterskull when facing merfolk or goblins. Thank you for your advice.

[Fatal]

Vs tribals Jitte is always best deal, specially with scryb ranger. SoLS works on most decks vs control/aggro etc its useful almost always, maybe except combo decks but here none equip isn't good.

[_erbs_]

Hello,
Just wondering how is Aven Mindcensor working for you guys.., i don't run him at the moment what i do run in its spot are Mirran Crusaders.

I've tried aven mindcensor several times and so so results.., its very good if you can land him 2nd turn and slowing down your opponents fetch and stoping opposing decks that run STF or GsZ, besides those factors his just a 2/1 flyer.

I know STF and fetch lands are very common to the current meta gsz is present but not as constant between the 2, having that said i feel that in order to maximize Mindcensors ability you have to run 4 offs bec he does his damage early on and slowly looses its value latter on, thats why i decided to pick mirran saders over him as its not a bad top deck, has built-in protection and can stop opposing kotr or tarmo and becomes a bomb once he is equipped with any equipment.

For those who had tested aven mindcensor extensively a feedback would be greatly appreciated. earning 3 slots on the deck i feel its really worth using, but i don't know why i feel its value is not as impressive as i perceive it to be for a 3 offs.

thanks

[deviant]

Aven shines in the mu's where the rest of the deck isnt so hot. Storm, SFM decks,NO, even hive mind.
Crusader is only worth his slots when the protections he haves are exceptionally relevant, like back when bug decks were all over the place.

Mindsensor give you bigger game where you are lacking it. Crusader makes the good mu's better.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

That seems like a shaky way to analyze value though. You don't have to win every matchup. If Mirran Crusader gives you a greater increase in win percentage by locking up good matchups than AM does by helping out a bit in terrible matchups, then the former is probably the correct choice.

The same would be true of running any other card in place of both of them obviously.

[_erbs_]

Hello
Looks like you guys really have alot of trust in aven or had a better luck than i am with it. Does aven comes out for you the turn you need it like 2nd turn or 3rd turn to be able to stop the things it should stop, because on all my testing with it 80% of the time its a 2/1 flying bear and can get easily blown up with mor in play nor can't be used as a significant clock as 2 damage per turn seems weak as compared to clique or flickerwisp, etc.

What i like about aven in all my testing if it comes out early expect your opponent to blast it away giving your other threats to run free.. thats the best part about it. well against combo its a different story as they dont run removals.

Against mirror im guessing its going to be a bomb if you cast it early as gw mav doesnt run too many removals surely your going to be on the upper hand in that mirror match up.

[TossUsToLions]

This thread has a lot of non-Maverick players' stance on Aven to get other points of view on the card: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ven-Mindcensor

I think that he is good as a surprise factor, but if your opponent know you are running it, it loses a lot of value. It also depends on your meta. GW Maverick is nonexistent in my area (possibly in my country? Haven't seen it at any SCG events.) and storm combo is very rare. Like IBA said about Crusader, if you think it will make your deck more consistent than Aven would, then run Crusader, or whatever else works for you. IMO, this deck is all about consistency, and this is the reason why I am beginning to test a list without Aven

[Koby]

I would like to start up a discussion regarding individual card choices.

Batterskull
Does GW/u Maverick need Batterskull to operate in most metagames?
Would Sword of Fire/Ice be better against Goblins/Merfolk?
Which matchups would it really shine?
Which matchups would the flexibility of other equipment (you know, actually equipping your creatures) be more relevant?
How many times has the life gain mattered?

I would like to state that I have once beaten ANT by getting an early Batterskull and riding the life gain to victory. I think I would have won anyway, since I got to turn 3 and survived.

Mental Misstep
Does this replace Mother of Runes strictly?
Does anyone advocate running 4 maindeck? What about 3 maindeck, 1 sideboard?
How many times do you draw this as the first card after starting the game on the draw?
In which metagames is this card more important than Mother of Runes?

It feels like both these points could use more fleshing out for the Primer/opening post.