I would never go below 2 Ichorids... They're pretty fine against sweepers, and if they use Surgical Extraction on your bridges, and you have no Ichorids, you just lose. I see myself removing Breakthrough in every blue matchup (except High Tide), and removing 1~2 Ichorids in every aggro matchup. The other cards to be sideboarded out are usually the 4th Cabal Therapy, both Dread Returns (in a slow matchup).Originally Posted by Mackan
As for reanimator, never board in Iona, Shield of Emeria or any DR-Target. They can use Reanimate to grab the dude in YOUR graveyard and just proceed to win. Leyline of the Void is enough, usually, and Unmask might dilute your deck. I mean, you need some gas after you T0 LotV, or they'll just bounce it someday and you'll lose anyways.
I'd board like this: +4 Leyline of the Void, -2 Ichorid, -1 Careful Study, -1 Breakthrough. But that's just me.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
Unmask is just an awful card in this deck. Get rid of those. You're already packing 4 Nature's Claim, I'd cut out the Ancient Grudge and replace those with Firestorm or something. Also you don't run Darkblasts main, maybe put one in the side so you can deal with gaddock teeg or any other utility bears. Whatever anyone says, yes people still run maindeck hate bears like yixlid jailers or jotunn grunts, ravenous trap etc. Look at the last few posts; we're talking about the merits of whether or not to run 4 leylines and that is old, old, OLD tech. I'm talking about first iterations of this deck old. You can't expect every person you play against in a tournament to have a completely metagame compliant deck. The G/W/X maverick decks are, in my opinion one of the toughest matchups for me because of their ability to diversify their hate into so many categories. Personally I'm not sold on leyline yet. I'm still testing 3 purify the grave in my sideboard and I'll hopefully come to a conclusion about it soon but I'm leaning toward it because I feel it's a little more flexible than leyline but eh we'll see.
"It is not to be thought that the life of darkness is sunk in misery and lost as if in sorrowing. There is no sorrowing. For sorrow is a thing swallowed up in death. And death and dying are the very life of the darkness."
I'm testing 3x Purify the Grave, too, and I'm quite happy with the outcome. Maybe it's only a matter of luck, but it saved me multiple times against Reanimator, which priorly was an almost unwinnable matchup (problem, Elesh Norn?) for my build. It is also useful against EE/Crypt recursion via Academy Ruins, Loam recursion and Snapcaster Mage. I've been doing several tests during the last two weeks and I'm being objective. The card has shared problems with Ancient Grudge: if you keep a one-lander and they pack Wasteland, be sure to cross your fingers as the match starts. Generally speaking, the card is fair. These are my conclusions.
0.05.14 [Digital Devil] <Digital Devil> Ach! Hans, run! It's the Tarmogoyf!
0.05.17 [Hans (GER)] <Hans (GER)> ...
0.05.20 [<System>] <System> Player Lost
Hi everyone, I'm relatively new to Dredge and I haven't been able to test effectively because I am unsure of how some interactions work. All of the questions deal with BFB. So here are a few scenarios, thank you in advance for the help!
1: I have a BFB in my graveyard and attack with an Ichorid. My opponent blocks with a Lord of Atlantis and both creatures die. In what order do the triggers resolve? Will I get a zombie?
2: I sacrifice 3 non-token creatures to flashback Dread Return, with several Bridges in my yard. Opponent sacrifices a Cursecatcher to counter the DR. When the Bridges are exiled, does that mean the Bridge triggers do not produce zombies?
First question:Hi everyone, I'm relatively new to Dredge and I haven't been able to test effectively because I am unsure of how some interactions work. All of the questions deal with BFB. So here are a few scenarios, thank you in advance for the help!
1: I have a BFB in my graveyard and attack with an Ichorid. My opponent blocks with a Lord of Atlantis and both creatures die. In what order do the triggers resolve? Will I get a zombie?
2: I sacrifice 3 non-token creatures to flashback Dread Return, with several Bridges in my yard. Opponent sacrifices a Cursecatcher to counter the DR. When the Bridges are exiled, does that mean the Bridge triggers do not produce zombies?
BfB has two separate triggered abilities. In the scenario you discribed, both of those abilities trigger. I guess it'sclear so far.
Now, if you are attacking, you are the active player and control BfB's triggered abilities. That means that you may choose in which order those two triggered abilities of BfB are put on the stack. You just put the 'exile BfB' on the stack first and the 'I get a Zombie' above it. You should always say this explicitly, just to make evrything sure for you and your opponent. That said, you get the Token, then your BfB is exiled.
Second question:
Usually, when a triggered ability is put on the stack, it will resolve unless it's countered. No matter what happened to the source of the ability when the ability tries to resolve. (Example: Your opponent activated a Lavamancer and you Bolt it in response. The ability of the Mancer will still resolve, even though its source has changed game zones).
Now, with BfB this is a bit different. It has that 'IF' clause in it. This IF-clause checks whether the BfB is still in a certain zone when the ability tries to resolve, and if it's not, the ability can't resolve any more.
Cursecatcher is sacrificed as a cost when the Dread Return (and the BfB trigger above it) are still on the stack. So the triggered ability that says 'Exile BfB' has to be put on the stack above those two. This means that by the time the 'get Zombies' ability resolves, BfB is not in the graveyard any more (thus, not matching the IF-condition). That's why you won't get any tokens in that scenario.
By the way, this is the reason Cursecatcher is such a beast against us. If they have one, you should usually try to grind them out with Ichorids and Bridges (without casting any spells they could possibly counter).
Lol, it keeps surprising me how insane it can be to explain the rules of a mere card game xD
Thanks a bunch, that cleared things up very nicely!
That's one of the reasons I love this game so much- the level of complexity is staggering for being "just" a card game.
Now that I better understand how BfB works, I'm more inclined to playtest it against other people. Look out local meta!
Thanks. These were some points I was a bit hazy on. I have a question also. Say I cast Cabal Therapy and, in response my opponent activates an Aether Vial with two tokens, putting two lords of atlantis(the card I had named with therapy)into play. I was told by my opponent when I did this it was legal then to change the target of CT to something else as a response to him tapping and activating the vial.
If this is true I probably have to rethink some interactions between certain cards.
Last edited by wutangkillabeezonaswarm; 12-13-2011 at 02:38 AM.
"It is not to be thought that the life of darkness is sunk in misery and lost as if in sorrowing. There is no sorrowing. For sorrow is a thing swallowed up in death. And death and dying are the very life of the darkness."
When you announce Cabal Therapy targeting your opponent, before it resolves, he has his responses (I.e. deciding to activate his Aether Vial). If he lets it resolve (You only get to name a card if therapy resolves) and you name Lord of Atlantis, he can no longer activate Aether Vial to cheat them into play.
Thank you.
"It is not to be thought that the life of darkness is sunk in misery and lost as if in sorrowing. There is no sorrowing. For sorrow is a thing swallowed up in death. And death and dying are the very life of the darkness."
What Que said.
The confusion with cards like Cabal Therapy (also Pithing Needle for instance) is that people are accustomed to the rule that targets are declared as the spell is cast, not when it resolves. This is the same for Therapy, only that the target you have to announce upon casting it is the player, and the card you name is not a target ability (which is why you only name it wehn CT already resolves).
I can't count the times where my opponents let me name my card with CT or Pithing Needle and when they noticed that the named card was in their hand, they wanted to counter my spell and even called judges when I told them they couldn't.
The problem is then, if your tournament judge doesn't know the rules either xD. I remember losing a game when my opponent tried to Swords to Plowshares my Iona on white 'in response to her trigger', but when she was already on the battlefield. My opponent referred to Phyrexian dreadnought, whose trigger can also be responded by Stifling it. The judge believed him... And when I told him he should just look it up online (the exact example is explained on magiccards info and the gatherer), he took it as an offense and didn't. Sad times.
I also once had to look it up on my Mobile bc the judge did not believe me:D
@wutang: Big props for paying respect to a legend in your profile pic.
This man is a truthspeaker! You deserve a beer - if you see me in Ghent, you may present yourself to me as The Speaker of Truths and I will buy you a beer of choice
So, what do you guys think?
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...2&iddeck=42714
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...9&iddeck=53266
Second big event this guy Top4 with the same LED list featuring a lot of abnormal choices...
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
Don't like that list at all.
It's just way too inconsistent.
- too few lands
- LED (with Lootings not out yet)
- only 10 dredgers
- 3 DR targets
- only 2 Ichorids
This list is clearly geared towards winning as fast as possible, but it has severe weaknesses if it can't get the combo together fast enough / can't resolve it properly.
But of course even very inconsistent lists will make top 8 from time to time.
Also, the second top4 finish was in the Invitaional, where they actually played Standard as well. His record in Standard was 6-1 and Legacy only 5-2, so his Legacy finish alone wouldn't even got him to top 8.
When the dredge decks that run a bunch of DR targets comes together it's great. Shame it doesn't happen anywhere near as often as you want it to.
easy e yo. aids. its hard out here mayne.
"It is not to be thought that the life of darkness is sunk in misery and lost as if in sorrowing. There is no sorrowing. For sorrow is a thing swallowed up in death. And death and dying are the very life of the darkness."
Hi, just a quick question. Instead of using Careful study, has anybody tried using winds of change? like 3mainboard?
Creatures: 26
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
3Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
4Golgari Thug
1Oona
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
Spells: 23
4 Break through
4Cabal Therapy
3Careful Study/WOC
2Deep Analysis
2Dread Return
4 Bridge from Below
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
Lands: 12
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone mine
4 Cephalid Coliseum
Sideboard:
3natures claim
3ancient grudge
2chain of vap
1ancestors chosen/ chain of vapor/ ??
4LOTV
1Terestadon
1Elesh
Some guys tested it when Storm Combo reigned. Careful Study is clearly better because it offers a discard outlet. WoC is just a worse Breakthrough, imho.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
I think you'll probably want to only run 2 main if at all.
"It is not to be thought that the life of darkness is sunk in misery and lost as if in sorrowing. There is no sorrowing. For sorrow is a thing swallowed up in death. And death and dying are the very life of the darkness."
Thank you Izor this was very helpful
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=42658
So LED Dredge made the top 5 in the Charlotte Open.
Real talk the only reason I'm not running LED Dredge is because I just don't have the damn things and they run about as much as a confidant.
Is this metagame so fast now we can only rely on LED-type lists to break into a top 8 position?
Will Faithless Looting make Dredge THE deck to beat?
"It is not to be thought that the life of darkness is sunk in misery and lost as if in sorrowing. There is no sorrowing. For sorrow is a thing swallowed up in death. And death and dying are the very life of the darkness."
Quick answer: No it isn't. The metagame is insanely slow, imo.
Faithless Looting will make LED dredge a huge lot better, but even the LEDless lists should run 4-off lootings I think.
Also this list makes me want to cry. Why cut the best card of the deck down to 3 copies MD?Blue/black dredge is not a thing I am sold of ,too.
And the one of Scalding Tarn looks funny.
Dunno, to me that list is a total mess.
This man is a truthspeaker! You deserve a beer - if you see me in Ghent, you may present yourself to me as The Speaker of Truths and I will buy you a beer of choice
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
