We're using Leyline of the Void or DDD + mana open for Coffin Purge/Purify the Grave against Extraction + Snapcaster Mage.Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7
Nature's Claim is for an irracional fear of Leyline of the Void (just to be secure you won't auto-lose against it). People dislike playing in tournaments against an auto-scoop. It randomly helps against other decks, but Terastodon/Woodfall Primus/Angel of Despair does that pretty well.
Unmask isn't a bad SB card, but the drawback is usually relevant, because we don't play many black pieces in our deck that can be removed just like that. I personally find the card very powerful in many matchups. But it usually means removing your single Dredger, or Putrid Imp/Ichorid to grab something from your foe. I'll give it a try again to confirm.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
Snapcaster/Extraction: I'm using 3* Coffin Purge/Purify the Grave. I think those + Therapies are the best way to fight it and I can still consistently beat Snapcaster decks with them.
Nature's Claim: Gets rid of Leylines, Batterskull, Ensnaring Bridge, etc. It also forces the activation of the likes of Crypts, Relics, and Deeds.
Unmask: It requires you to exile a card (most likely one you want/need for the combo), Prevents possible DDD, and it doesn't have flashback. Now, if the alternative cost was 'discard a black card' this would be a whole different story.
OK thanks. Yeah I have no idea how to play this deck, so I am trying to learn some of the SBing strategies for the current metagame. Noob question - what is DDD? And is Leyline enough for those decks; do you find yourself only boarding in Leyline if you are going that route? And has anyone tried Memory's Journey? It seems like a great way to beat Surgical plus splash hate on Reanimator, but I don't know.
Edit: Draw Discard Dredger??? That is my guess :)
Planning for post-Faithless Looting metagame. I think a deck like LED Dredge would be a great way to win some GP Indy Trials if the metagame doesn't shift a ton. Here is my list so far:
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Putrid Imp
4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichorid
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return
4 Faithless Looting
4 Bridge from Below
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Lotus Petal
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
SB
4 Memory's Journey
4 Chain of Vapor
2 Nature's Claim
4 Firestorm
1 Ancestor's Chosen
I really want a couple Ancient Grudges in the SB, but the 6 Leyline hate is nice I guess (even though I likely won't play against it...). Chains and Firestorms are used to beat Maverick (Knights and Oozes). Memory's Journey seems solid against Surgical, but I am waiting on feedback. The 2 Lotus Petal MD is pretty much because I HATE the other gold lands, and it gets pretty explosive when you are playing 4 Lootings with the Breakthroughs. So yeah biggest thing for me right now is Claims vs. Grudges or maybe even a couple Chains turn into Grudges idk. I'm getting ahead of myself with Faithless Looting, so I hope that isn't breaking a thread rule; I saw it being discussed earlier.
Last edited by Patrunkenphat7; 12-18-2011 at 02:28 AM.
Just some advice you might find useful: running the petals probably is not neccessary,I for example am using only the 12 lands and it is enough for me.
Also the numbers of thugs and Ichorids might Wannsee switch, running 3 Ichorids and 4 Thugs. You wont be able to attack with Ichorid that often if everything goes well.
Why did you cut studies? I am slightly irritated. Doesn't it make more sense to play 8 studies and only 2 breakthroughs if you cut petals? The study effect is much better imo. Might need some testing this.
Last issue I have with your maindeck: the DR target. Now this is mostly a personal crusade right here but why ever play this card? It says win more like nothing else. Now, if you do this because of a Combo heavy Meta, you might wanna test Iona in this slot.If
it is just to have a powerful target, try Sun Titan or Primus/Vindicate. Those have a lot more utility and also helps when things go badly. If you insist on Zealot, add 1 sphinx imo.
On the sideboard, you have to decide on Chain vs Claim. Both are perfectly good choices but playing a total of 6 antileyline cards is overkill. SB space in Dredge is extremely tight. You also really need some Elesh Norn against the mirror after looting,is legal. Memory's journey does nothing better than purify imo but if you really want the shuffle back ability I guess it is worth a shot. If I were to build your SB(assuming that you want Firestorm,rather than play the racing game) it would look like this :
3 Journey/ Purify
3 Claim/Chain
(1 Ray of Revelation)
4 Firestorm
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Iona
(1 Elesh Norn)
As you See, Firestorm takes up a lot of space.
Hope I could help.
Edith: also, DDD =draw discard dredge,aka slowdredging.
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3 answers to Leyline isn't enough. Many decks with LL also have some sort of counter magic and if you want to reliably remove it, you'll have to play at the very least 4, if not 5 answers. Also I wouldn't play Rays any more. Two mana is a huge deal.
Recastability is a big deal also. Playing 1 Ray is effectively 2 answers to leyline,except the other guy runs Spell Snare.
There are 4 answers to leyline in the sb btw. Anyway, I wouldn't run Firestorm at all I think, so there would be more space.
If you insist on running Firestorm Side, I think that's one of the best ways to do so.
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It's true that Ray can destroy a second, later hard cast Leyline. I wouldn't really say it accounts for two answers, because neither does it increase your odds of drawing an answer nor does it deal with a Double-Leyline opener. But yes, of course the Flashback is relevant. I also used to run it but since I've lost several games on the play when Ray gave my opponent the chance to protect its Leyline with Daze or a discard spell (Thoughtseize, Inquisition and Duress) and since I've also lost games when I couldn't find the second land in time, I've moved away from Ray.
Also, I just read that you wouldn't use Firestorm any more. I'm just curious why? I remember you saying that 4 in the main deck is a must in LEDless. Do you think that LED will be THAT much faster that Firestorm won't be needed at all?
Exactly that.
Against GW I would not board out LED because all they really have is (most of the times) turn 2/3 ooze or turn 2/3 knight. With LEDs speed, testing showed that Ooze becomes much more irrelevant. Knight has the problem of only having to be active ONCE to win. Still, I believe with a proper Sideboard( in LED I will actually use Chains)
that can be dealt with, too.
In short: LED races the crap out of Scavenging Ooze, all day.
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Thanks for all the input. Regarding Maverick, I have seen most lists running 2 E Tutor and an artifact GY hate in the SB. I know this is what I am running in my Mav deck, and Gerry T ran it as well.
Oh,never seen that here so far. Still I believe it's not a bad MU anymore, Ooze is not enough. That was the reason Maverick preyed on us imo.Chains do the job, Ancient Grudge , too.
Edit: Against E-Tutor stuff, I believe that Tribes are more viable than Firestorm btw.
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With my playtesting against maverick this is the biggest problem, the e tutor package.
LED is much better positioned to fight maverick than LEDless. However, the E tutor plan can make it so we must win on turn 1 or 2. If we don't win quick they start to wasteland our lands and get creatures like ooze and knight online while e tutoring exactly what they need.
It's tough to fight relic/tormod's or wheel of fate. This is one of those oddball times I would want leyline of sanctity in the SB.
Played @a local tournament, finished 3-3 - lost twice against Wheel of Sun and Moon (just when I thought I didn't need Ray of Revelation) and 1-2 against Reanimator, with him winning first turn with with Dark Ritual/Entomb/Reanimate on Elesh Norn and continuing with a Blazing Archon ruining my day with him at 4 life and 6 cards left in his deck (Purify the Grave on Elesh Norn and Angel of Despair already on the battlefield, sad times). I currently don't know how to behave against Maverick, as people here plays hate in mixed form: how am I supposed to handle 1x Tormod's Crypt/1x Wheel of Sun and Moon/2x Surgical Extraction + maindeck Scavenging Ooze and Bojuka Bog?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SB: 4 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 3 [TSP] Ancient Grudge
SB: 3 [RAV] Darkblast
SB: 3 [ISD] Purify the Grave
SB: 2 [JU] Ray of Revelation
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is my current sideboard. I play 8 draw spells, 14 lands, 8 permanent discard outlets, 4 Ichorids and maindeck Iona. Any help is appreciated.
I want to replace Iona her with Angel of Despair: since I'm not going "combo-mode" anymore, as my former goal was playing a fast 7/7, do you think going down to 2x Dread Return is enough to support a dedicated target?
P.S. - I find it weird but I noticed many players tend to cast Surgical Extraction as soon as they see a dredger, thus my plan of boarding in Purify the Grave + Darkblast (to increase the dredger count) has made me quite happy as I never lost to Snapcaster Mage.
0.05.14 [Digital Devil] <Digital Devil> Ach! Hans, run! It's the Tarmogoyf!
0.05.17 [Hans (GER)] <Hans (GER)> ...
0.05.20 [<System>] <System> Player Lost
I rly dont know your problems.( all who are scared against maverick.)
Our biggest problem is Nic Fit.
I played against some of those and i cried.
Maindeck:
1 ooze
4 deeds
Sideboard:
3 leyline
3 extraction
What the hell.
I can definitely say, this is a bad matchup.
This. Nic Fit is atm our worst possible MU, that is correct.
Though the preboard match against them is even worse than postboard imo.Totally forgot about the deck tbh, but you are definately right.
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Ya know, against such decks that have so many diversified hate against us...
the best thing is to board back entirely for game three and go for the 2nd turn blowout on the play. That's the best weapon against Relic, Ooze, Bojuka Bog, Wheel of S&M, Deed and all that crap.
However, if they have Leyline I always board against that.
If they then draw their singleton Crypt or have the Extraction and you don't have a second Dredger, well then so be it. Can't win them all. The Storm Player also doesn't win through Leyline of Sanctity + Mindbreak Trap + Ethersworn Canonist and the Merfolk player won't beat Lavamancer plus Llawan plus Choke.
In my limited testing against Nic Fit, I have found it to not that tough. Ooze isn't so scary as it is in Maverick. Deed is one of those cards I can play around with no sweat.
However, if half their sideboard is graveyard destruction it can get tough. Leyline backed up with thoughtseize is always difficult, but not impossible to beat.
One time I played against a monoblack deck with relics + leylines of the void. Game three I just brought in all my pithing needles and chains of vapors. His deck was so diluted and reliant on his anti graveyard packages that I won with ease.
Again, Leyline of the Void is really fine against Nic Fit. Because Veteran Explorer must hit GY to trigger, and without this ramp, their deck is just a massive amount of cool expensive spells stuck in hand (such as Grave Titan).
If they don't run their own LotV, it's not that hard. If you can hit Breakthrough/Study/Coliseum before they can reach 4 lands, you won.
All Rockish decks are tough (and by rockish, I mean BGW). They can pack so many kinds of hate.
My friend is brewing some funny Dredge list: 17 Lands, 12 Dredgers, no Breakthrough, 4 Ichorids, and some nice SB stuff: Ground Seal, Stony Silence and Realm Razer among his DR-Targets.
We'll playtest in a while, and I'll report the performance.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
Interesting, I'd like to hear how the 17 lands work out. I've been thinking about going up to 16 for a while and I'm pretty sure if there was a better third gold land, I would've done it.
Ground Seal is actually really good against all that Snapcaster-Extraction shenanigans. I've been testing this for almost a month now.
Realm Razer is very good as well. I almost always have one in my board. People underestimate it.
And why not Null Rod over Stony Silence? Can be cast off CC, so it seems better.
I'd like to hear about this version, too. If you had some testgames with your friend, let us know.
I'm rly interested in, too. I hate Extraction + Snappy.
Share your experience with us pls.
K1w1
@ HokusSchmokus: Are you in Iserlohn at 29.1.12 and 5.2.12? We can discuss a bit if you want.
Edit: And 7.1.12 in Frankfurt?
Not Frankfurt. The rest , I don't know. 27.12. Auenland Event tho!
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