All B/R update speculation.

[Mr. Safety]

Lightning Bolt will be the next banned card, I think. It prevents cards like Fauna Shaman from being good. They nerfed Punishing/Groves...so now it's time to look hard at the targeted removal of the format. Bolt is just too powerful at keeping early creatures off the table and combines with Snapcaster Mage too easily.

That's my prediction...it sounds ludicrous, but what part of modern isn't ludicrous?

[wizard_of_gore]

Guys, are you afraid that stoneforge mystic will get axe if so many decks packing her keep showing in top 4/8/16 on SCG events? I'm very serious about question. If we are looking on on couple of months ago, decks runing SFM are crushing tops places on SCG. Same with green sun zenith. Is that can be true, or i am just paranoic ?

Sory on bad english ;)

[Shawon]

You're just being paranoid. Stoneforge Mystic by itself isn't difficult to answer. SFM is just good and it makes white not just a color you splash for Swords to Plowshares. This is a good thing for the format.

[Koby]

GSZ is overpowered. It needs to be banned. </sarcasm>

[Rizso]

There really isnt any cards at all atm that is even needed to be banned. People have even adapted to snapcaster + removal and we know legacy decks never adapt!

[majikal]

I still think Snapcaster will eventually have to go. Probably not soon, but at some point it will cross the line of what is acceptable. It really limits design space for instants and sorceries at lower mana costs.

Likewise Show and Tell for limiting design space on non-planeswalker permanents.

And when I say it "limits design space" I mean that WotC doesn't give a fuck and they will print something that breaks it.

[routlaw]

I don't think Legacy blue players were falling over themselves to play 3-4cmc instant and sorcery spells before Snapcaster Mage. This is a format where if you want a certain effect you can generally get it for cheap.

The ubiquity of Spell Snare is more meaningful than Snapcaster when choosing between one,two, and three cost spells, to be honest.

Snapcaster has some already pretty widely played effective counters-Scavenging Ooze and a green mana turns it off, decks with black can board in Nihil Spellbomb and deal with Snapcaster for value, Relic of Progenitus if you aren't using your own graveyard, etc. It's not like you don't need gravehate in the board anyway.

Edit: Show and Tell has been on the naughty list for a year and a half now, card is an abomination but it's not dominating anything. Since I can't imagine them printing a creature more obnoxious than Emrakul, it's just a matter of not doing something degenerate with artifacts or enchantments, and even then powerful combos like Hive Mind aren't burning down the format.

[majikal]

I don't think Legacy blue players were falling over themselves to play 3-4cmc instant and sorcery spells before Snapcaster Mage. This is a format where if you want a certain effect you can generally get it for cheap.

The ubiquity of Spell Snare is more meaningful than Snapcaster when choosing between one,two, and three cost spells, to be honest.

Snapcaster has some already pretty widely played effective counters-Scavenging Ooze and a green mana turns it off, decks with black can board in Nihil Spellbomb and deal with Snapcaster for value, Relic of Progenitus if you aren't using your own graveyard, etc. It's not like you don't need gravehate in the board anyway.

The problem with grave hate vs. Snapcaster Mage is that they still get a man, and you waste resources stopping them from playing a card that they have already cast once. Ooze is a good answer in a way, because it doesn't cuse card disadvantage and can easily grow to block Snapcaster and live, but it also fails in that it is extremely vulnerable to the sheer amount of removal that SCM decks tend to play as well as falling victim to Spell Snare, which is also a mainstay in SCM decks.

It isn't to the point where something needs to be done about it yet, but it is right on the edge, IMO.

[Koby]

True story - I played against UW control yesterday, and the only creature that stuck on the field was the one with Shroud.

*shrug*

[jnosrati]

let's ban scryb ranger and call it a day.

[majikal]

let's ban scryb ranger and call it a day.

That card is nuts busted.

[Gui]

Even after the hype and all, I'd still go for ban Brainstorm in this format. Even tho I don't think Brainstorm will be banned in a near future in legacy, unless someone break the existing combos making the format combo vs combo-hate, I still think a format without brainstorm would be better, and that it would balance the scales on "blue vs non-blue".

Because, seriously, Brainstorm makes decks as consistent as 50-cards decks, at instant speed. The card is one of the few that has no drawback, at all.

[Hanni]

ban Brainstorm

Touch Brainstorm... and I keel you.

[Michael Keller]

Legacy is fine.

If anything, unban Worldgorger Dragon. This is 2012, not 2004. There is a ridiculous amount of graveyard hate for any deck based off that combo in this format - targeted hate - and even in Vintage where it can be wholesomely abused it really isn't so much anymore.

I mean yeah, it could dodge hate with protection, but the sheer amount of hate that already exists would still offset its effectiveness overall, methinks. But since Entomb is legal, maybe not so much. Shrug.

[I am the brainwasher]

"I still think Snapcaster will eventually have to go. Probably not soon, but at some point it will cross the line of what is acceptable. It really limits design space for instants and sorceries at lower mana costs.

Likewise Show and Tell for limiting design space on non-planeswalker permanents.

And when I say it "limits design space" I mean that WotC doesn't give a fuck and they will print something that breaks it."

This, this and propably this.
Can't get rid of the feeling that I might sound like a broken record here but this sums it up quite niceley.
Not that I do care at least 1% about it, but that would also shut those whiners up somehow.

[Sims]

Legacy is fine.

If anything, unban Worldgorger Dragon. This is 2012, not 2004. There is a ridiculous amount of graveyard hate for any deck based off that combo in this format - targeted hate - and even in Vintage where it can be wholesomely abused it really isn't so much anymore.

I mean yeah, it could dodge hate with protection, but the sheer amount of hate that already exists would still offset its effectiveness overall, methinks. But since Entomb is legal, maybe not so much. Shrug.

Honestly, Mike, I think judges and the DCI are more worried about people using the Dragon as a draw button if they can't assemble their combo and forcing rounds to time.

[Zilla]

Honestly, Mike, I think judges and the DCI are more worried about people using the Dragon as a draw button if they can't assemble their combo and forcing rounds to time.

This is true.

Also, Burn has recently won major tournaments. Legacy is fine and nothing needs to be banned.

[troopatroop]

Legacy is fine.

If anything, unban Worldgorger Dragon. This is 2012, not 2004.

I completely agree with this. Without Bazaar OR Survival, I can't even think of a way it would work (in any reliable way).

So what you can Animate it and draw the game? The deck is hosed by Crypt/Grip to the max, and it still needs to win.

Nothing needs to BE banned, but I think alot could be unbanned. BAN Vengevine and UNBAN Survival!

[Dark Ritual]

Have you ever heard of gravecrawler troopatroop? Survival won't ever be getting unbanned while that card is in the format. Sure you can't do the stupid 16 power on turn 5 thing that survival did or turn 4 in some cases but you get 4 2/1's that recur unless they're exiled somehow.

The only reason WGD is banned is because of the draw the game button where you create the loop and have no way to end it. Powerlevel wise, WGD combo isn't better than LED decks or traditional reanimator for that matter. Also, you forgot to mention that the combo dies to swords to plowshares exiling the entire board of the dragon player with the EtB trigger on the stack. And surgical extraction + snapcaster is a thing so a deck based on one card being reanimated from the graveyard to win is a point in WGD's favor because the deck would be quite weak at least it would be worse than dredge.

[Vacrix]

This is true.

Also, Burn has recently won major tournaments. Legacy is fine and nothing needs to be banned.

WHAT???

Clearly Mountains need to be banned so people can keep playing their Brainstorms.