It is the nature of the flayer list. It acts more like a combo deck and less like an aggro control deck. For game one you try and deck dump then pray you have flayer and a couple dread returns ready. Ichorids and Cabal Therapy are kind of a back up plan here in case you don't deck dump.Originally Posted by useL
You may also notice a lot of the flayer lists use 1-2 ichorids and 1 cabal therapy in the SB to switch gears to more of the aggro control type deck.
Plan A for flayer lists is to animate flayer then animate a golgari grave troll and win that turn which is why these lists usually run 3 dread returns because it wants to animate 2 creatures. Flayer isn't in there to lightning bolt people once a turn via Ichorid.
Ichorid is actually lackluster. I wonder if its actually better to cut them down to 1 and put in something else.
Ichorid is the single most powerful creature we have. Nothing I play in my deck gets extracted more often, nothing enters the battlefield as often and it generally makes about 5 tokens. this is not lackluster! I strongly recommend to run at least 2, 3 in any non combo list.
This man is a truthspeaker! You deserve a beer - if you see me in Ghent, you may present yourself to me as The Speaker of Truths and I will buy you a beer of choice
I think dredge and ichorid were interchangeable names for this deck at one point.
Totally agreement here. Cutting the best synergic card in the deck down to 1 does not make any sense. If you cut down Ichorid to 1, your opponent needs only 1 Swords to Plowshares for 1 Ichorid and 1 Extraction for Moeba, so that you can't reanimate anything.
Also, the Ichorid genereates tokens without Cabal Therapy and DR, what is much more important, than the most ones would think.
LEDless uses Cephalid Coliseum like a champ, and Undiscovered Paradise might struggle in a few moments.
@Final Fortune: That might work, except I wouldn't go below 12 Dredgers, so I could fit 2 Faithless Lootings in the place of land #15 and Firestorm.
I usually board additional targets to fight Surgical Extraction, and usually removing some sort of draw spells (usually Surgical comes along with permission).
@People in this Forum: I don't know why are you guys struggling so much with Maverick. G1 is usually very easy if you keep a average hand. And post-board, Firestorms are just insane, and they slow their clock and make card disadvantage with Enlightned Tutor. Just board some combination of Nature's Claim and Chain of Vapor, along with Firestorms in place of Tribes and you should be fine.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
Hello
I would like your help to create a favorable side to my field.
My opponents use these decks:
Affinity
Blade Control
Dragon Stompy
Enchantress
Maverick
Punishing Fire with Maverick
Nic fit (BG and BGW)
Mono Green Infect
Kithkin White Weenie
My opponents use these hates graveyard:
Surgical Extraction
Wheel of Sun and Moon
Knight of the Reliquary for bojuka bog
scavenging Ooze
Tormod's Crypt
Relic of Progenitus
Nihil Spellbomb
My list of the deck and side:
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Golgari Thug
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
3 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Dread Return
3 Firestorm
4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
4 Bridge from Below
Undiscovered Paradise 1
1 Tarnished Citadel
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
My Sideboard
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Angel of Despair
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Ichorid
4 Pithing Needle
4 Memory's Journey
Thank You
Att,
Dropsaway
Last edited by dropsaway; 04-03-2012 at 09:29 PM.
The first change I would make is to put Iona in the sb and put in Elesh Norn. Elesh is better in almost all the matchups you mentioned.
Iona is much better than Elesh Norn main-deck. Its application is broader and doesn't concern itself with shoring up aggressive strategies that you should be beating anyways. I understand it's a meta choice, but in that instance I wouldn't play either main-deck; Zealot or Flayer is probably just as good, if not better.
Last edited by Michael Keller; 04-03-2012 at 09:26 PM.
Hello Hollywood
I will replace the fkz and put flayer, and on my graveyard hates what I could change my sideaboard, sometimes I'm not sure what to remove from the deck to put the side.
Thanks again
You're welcome.
However, I would consider running an additional Dread Return if you're opting to go the Flayer route. A lot of folks seem to think that is the best way to go.
You're right, I'll make some adjustments in my deck ... however its look at what could change in my sideboard to escape from my hates? if possible to help me demonstrate what to put on and off the deck against my opponents, they still have difficulty at this stage usually win the game and lose by a mistake in sideboarding...
Att,
Dropsaway
@dropsaway: If your meta is as narrow as you mentioned, then I would add nature's claim and perhaps consider Leyline of Sanctity.
First post in the new thread, hope I'm not flooding it. I'm playing non-LED with maindeck Iona atm and I'm having some issues, mainly against Reanimator and Sneak/Show - also Maverick after the printing of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. Main concern with Reanimator is that they know I play Chain of Vapor so they keep bringing back Inkwell Leviathan instead of Elesh Norn, and CoV suddenly becomes useless. Not to mention Reanimator also packs Surgical Extraction, here. I usually bring in 4x Chains by siding out Careful Study. Against Sneak/Show... well, if they go the SnT route and drop Emrakul and I have my singleton Angel of Despair in hand, it's fine; otherwise, I'm dead. Maverick also became a difficult matchup, as the Wasteland + Thalia interaction completely crushes my hope of answering Knight of the Reliquary/Scavenging Ooze. My sideboard is as follows:
4x Chain of Vapor
3x Ancient Grudge
2x Ingot Chewer
2x Purify the Grave (not sure about these, though)
2x Darkblast
1x Ray of Revelation
1x Angel of Despair
There are lots of Nic Fit, Canadian Thresh and various combo decks (Hive Mind/ANT/Spiral Tide) here - any help would be appreciated.
0.05.14 [Digital Devil] <Digital Devil> Ach! Hans, run! It's the Tarmogoyf!
0.05.17 [Hans (GER)] <Hans (GER)> ...
0.05.20 [<System>] <System> Player Lost
I personally rely on Faerie Macabre to help with the Reanimator match-up, and I certainly like it better than Chain of Vapor because Reanimator (normally) does not have the means to counter it. I've also been considering running a singleton Purify the Grave, though I haven't had the time (or the sideboard space) to test it - I expect it to be very helpful, though, even in the match-ups where you can expect Surgical Extractions.
I would also be interested in some ideas for our sideboard options against the Sneaky Show match-up.
Kind Regards,
jares
Assuming you are facing combo decks like the aforementioned, the inclusion of Lion's Eye Diamond dramatically increases your win percentages against those decks due to its raw, sheer speed. Additionally, decks like Nic Fit and Canadian Thresh you should just crush no matter what variation of Dredge you're running game one, and you should sideboard appropriately game two and or three. Because you are opting not to run Lion's Eye Diamond (for whatever reason), understand that your match-up with Maverick diminishes a bit because you have more difficulty racing Ooze with Thalia and Wasteland - it's just the nature of the beast.
Firestorm is good, but if they're keeping you off mana and sticking a Thalia first, that could spell trouble.
Reanimator is a different story. It is an incredibly hard deck for Dredge to beat without Lion's Eye Diamond as you generally cannot race a turn one Entomb in time (it is possible, however). This is against where Lion's Eye Diamond lets you explode all over an opponent who keeps a mediocre to slightly above average hand (with a potential mulligan): you have the ability to just simply outrace them before they can do anything relevant. Your best bet is to try and mulligan into something worthwhile and try to race it as best as you can.
Your second game should always be a "test" game so you can get a better feel as what sort of hate your opponent is running. This is where identifying applicable hate cards becomes incredibly important, like assuming an opponent would be running Leyline in a Mono Black deck. I am not so sure Chain of Vapor is any good in the sideboard anymore, as the deck needs definitive answers to mitigate more widespread problems like Leyline of the Void and other artifact/enchantment-based hate. Chain of Vapor is fine, but it only really shores up the Reanimator match, which is a realtively narrow answer as you can just simply run graveyard hate instead.
Chain of Vapor is not a definitive solution to more widespread hate cards, but that's a matter of taste I suppose.
Keeping mono-Faithless Looting is an insane mistake.
Magic Level 3 Judge
Southern USA Regional Coordinator
I definitely agree with your statement if what you meant by "mono-Faithless Looting" is that "Faithless Looting is the only enabler in your hand".
If you want to state your opinion that </whateverScenario> is an "insane mistake" (without sharing your basis for it), then I will respect your opinion.
-jares
Lion's Eye Diamond disagrees...
...
that, or you're counting LED as another enabler.
(well, it is, but such an horrendous one)
I believe that LED is also essentially an enabler, though it's highly dependent on Faithless Looting on being able to behave like one.
Cheers,
jares
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