Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SIMMERING POT OF FECAL MATTER]

[joemauer]

The problem is that if you're Dread Return'd a creature - you've already won. Just ask any Dredge player - it's not usually the target that's important, but the amount of Zombies. They are generally what win you the game.

Well passing the turn always lowers your chance of winning by some kind of percentage. Playing versus any combo deck you can think of( dredge, ANT, TES, doomsday, high tide, elves, burn even, Reanimator, dream halls) you would rather dread return this guy and win rather than dread return a troll with zombie tokens and pass the turn.

@aggrozombies: FKZ and flayer fill the same role, killing your opponent in one turn. FKZ+gristlebrand may be better than flayer+gristlebrand just because you get a 8/8 flier life linker with haste and some number of Zombies.

[JBlaze]

Cue spooky X-files style conspiracy music grab your tinfoil hats and ride the train to paranoia town with me for a second.

between mental misstep last year and this new time walk. It seems like maybe wizards has decided that they can just print crazy powerful cards sell a ton of boosters and then just ban them a few months later when they wreck legacy a format that that really do not care about.

YEAH I said it. Wizards does not give a fuck about legacy or its players we are a happy accident to them at best and at worst annoying or completely irrelevant. Not that they would ever say that mind you. It is more like that girl who does not really like you anymore but won't break up with you because you still buy her stuff and have good weed. Instead she just cheats on you and talks shit behind your back.

Remember just because I am paranoid and crazy does not mean I can't be right

[GradStudentGuy]

The best place for this card is most likely is some sort of stone blade shell using personal tutor to find it and other sorcery speed sliver bullets. Dropping a Mystic or A lingering souls then Time walking is broken with equipment. It basically just gave your creatures haste and from zero board presence to a very scary one.

[(nameless one)]

I was taking a nap and then it occurred to me, remember Time Reversal?

There was so much debacle about it and look what happened. Nothing.

Maybe we're just too paranoid.

[Sims]

I was taking a nap and then it occurred to me, remember Time Reversal?

There was so much debacle about it and look what happened. Nothing.

Maybe we're just too paranoid.

The Irony is, Flash was "fixed" for weeks and people didn't notice, and when they did there still wasn't as much of a banning shitstorm as there is for this card.

[burtonbaron62]

Cue spooky X-files style conspiracy music grab your tinfoil hats and ride the train to paranoia town with me for a second.

between mental misstep last year and this new time walk. It seems like maybe wizards has decided that they can just print crazy powerful cards sell a ton of boosters and then just ban them a few months later when they wreck legacy a format that that really do not care about.

Add JTMS to this list as well.

I hate to say it but I think this is the truth. Every card that pre-sales at 30 bucks causes SCG et al. (who are the real customers) to buy a boat load of cases. They are trying to get money while the getting is good. MTG won't be profitable forever, so might as well get it while the gettin' is good. Maybe Hasbro brass / lackeys have some say in these shenanigans? Maybe this is related to the creature power creep as well. Just doing whatever it takes to sell packs.

Or maybe they are truly trying to get eternal players to buy packs from new sets and make a positive contribution to Legacy. Somehow I kinda doubt it.

[csy]

"omg power creep, broken, format warping, ruined the game"

-every spoiled set thread ever.

[KindGrind]

I've been around a long while, and have not seen a card so obviously over-the-top.

I'll echo what many have come to say before me... If that one doesn't go, Brainstorm will.

Pretty sad state of affairs.

[Greenpoe]

I was taking a nap and then it occurred to me, remember Time Reversal?

There was so much debacle about it and look what happened. Nothing.

Maybe we're just too paranoid.

You never really know until it just enters the format. Everyone thought Misstep was busted and it was (arguably). People thought Batterskull sucked, but it doesn't. People even thought Lorescale Coatl would be busted back then, but it wasn't.

[Justin]

Yeah, the new time walk is busted. Everyone will have to play four to be competitive and whomever resolves theirs first will win. I see no other option that a pre-emptive ban. This card will have to be banned in multiple formats. If not, it will easily be a $100 card. So either you will have to buy/trade $400 for a playset or be at a severe disadvanatge playing against those who have the card. I could see a lot of people quitting Legacy or sitting out until the card is banned. This is on the level of Flash.

[hyperchord24]

I would like to apologize for adding to the "sky is falling" talk. I have since taken a breath and will reevaluate things as I play test with this new card.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Has anyone even tested these cards? I feel like when people start saying a conditional Time Walk is better than Flash the hype may have passed reality a long time ago.

[Justin]

Seriously, though. If this card is legal, what decks aren't going to want to play this? In Legacy, it's a lot more than a "conditional" Time Walk. It's going to be a straight-up Time Walk most of the time thanks to Brainstorm and friends. It's just going to break open games.

[Aggro_zombies]

Seriously, though. If this card is legal, what decks aren't going to want to play this? In Legacy, it's a lot more than a "conditional" Time Walk. It's going to be a straight-up Time Walk most of the time thanks to Brainstorm and friends. It's just going to break open games.

How do you figure?

If your deck is full of durdley cantrips (which you want to set up your Time Walk), what are you doing on your extra turn? Playing an extra land and durdling some more?

[Vacrix]

Has anyone even tested these cards? I feel like when people start saying a conditional Time Walk is better than Flash the hype may have passed reality a long time ago.

Apparently its good as a 2'of in UR Delver. Otherwise its basically an Explore.


Also, for those saying you get extra Jace counters.. You already have Jace in play. You're already winning. What do you forgo by playing TM? A removal spell? A piece of your counter suite?

[dschalter]

You never really know until it just enters the format. Everyone thought Misstep was busted and it was (arguably). People thought Batterskull sucked, but it doesn't. People even thought Lorescale Coatl would be busted back then, but it wasn't.

People thought Misstep was busted, but many august posters made the same mistake as R&D and assumed that it would be good for non-blue decks and bad for blue decks ("it gives non-blue decks something they don't have" basically). It's possible that people are missing a way in which this card will be broken right now, though it seems less likely.

[Justin]

How do you figure?

If your deck is full of durdley cantrips (which you want to set up your Time Walk), what are you doing on your extra turn? Playing an extra land and durdling some more?

Remember that you are playing four of these in your deck. It doesn't win the game for you in the early to early midgame, but the extra turn is really nice for generating extra tempo. In the late-midgame to late-game, a resolved one of these will straight up win you the game. I could actually see this wining games on turn three if you have a couple Delvers down. Not to mention, that people will build decks around this card to maximize its abusiveness. Those decks will come to define the format. I don't see any scenario in which the card won't be banned in Legacy.

[Aggro_zombies]

Remember that you are playing four of these in your deck. It doesn't win the game for you in the early to early midgame, but the extra turn is really nice for generating extra tempo. In the late-midgame to late-game, a resolved one of these will straight up win you the game. I could actually see this wining games on turn three if you have a couple Delvers down. Not to mention, that people will build decks around this card to maximize its abusiveness. Those decks will come to define the format. I don't see any scenario in which the card won't be banned in Legacy.

If you have a couple of Delvers down, aren't you already winning? And by a huge margin?

[Vacrix]

If you have a couple of Delvers down, aren't you already winning? And by a huge margin?

Yup. Same can be said of Jace.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Every few months new cards come out that haven't been thoroughly tested and explored by big name writers, and I'm reminded of how fundamentally terrible most people are at this game.

Probability of this card ever being banned in Legacy: 0.001%

Probability that it will be the last straw to push Brainstorm and/or Sensei's Divining Top into the realm of bannings: 1%

Probably that nothing will happen and the card will see little to no play in a few months: ~99%

Also the next person to suggest the card in a deck that cares about either storm count or active High Tides gets free punches.