Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SIMMERING POT OF FECAL MATTER]

[TheXile]

This set is awesome already. We've had so many political allusions its awesome. The Soulbond mechanic alludes to non-dicriminatory marriage and the potential stillbirth of Temporal Mastery alludes to wizardly abortion arguments. One could even argue that a little Demon worship is going down on the side.

And the Miracle mechanic embodies the "Entitlement Army" our current administration is creating...no need to have skill or work hard..eventually it'll come to you or you'll get lucky...

[Jackehehe]

This set is awesome already. We've had so many political allusions its awesome. The Soulbond mechanic alludes to non-dicriminatory marriage and the potential stillbirth of Temporal Mastery alludes to wizardly abortion arguments. One could even argue that a little Demon worship is going down on the side.

haha, I really did LoL when I read this :) good point, and well spoken!

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

And the Miracle mechanic embodies the "Entitlement Army" our current administration is creating...no need to have skill or work hard..eventually it'll come to you or you'll get lucky...

Sigh.

[Tombstalker]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned miracle walk in merfolk. A blue vial deck with board presence and a relatively fast clock should be a nice fit, I wonder if the card is powerful enough to bring the archetype back. Thoughts?

[Infinitium]

So why did people stop freaking out about the barely-conditional 5-damage lightning bolt again? Easily the strongest card spoiled so far, and one that makes me fear for URx aggro decks. With good mulliganing I -could- even see it being played in Mono-R burn.

The timewalk looks somewhat strong but too niche to see mainstream play (and as IBA mentioned being strong isn't as important as being consistent in legacy). Almost -never- being a bad topdeck past turn 2 and having Brainstorm/Jace/Force to mitigate the damage early on makes it somewhat hard to judge though.

The white miracle may seem meh, but being a cheap and -broad- answer means it cannot get dismissed easily either - remember that if you're the controlling deck and don't miracle it off the top you're probably not under pressure anyhow (giving you time to set it up later), and control decks have Force and Swords to mitigate it being initially useless in the opener. I'd say it'll see play in place of Path to Exile.

Grease is obviously strong and will probably see play in Dredge (if only for being a black creature that can effectively win the game immediatly courtesy of 4x Cabal Therapy/Zombies - better Sadistic Hypnotist if you will). Not being pitchable to force means it isn't guaranteed to replace Jin in reanimator, but it's otherwise the better standalone creature of the two by far. Sneak Attack could probably use it, but I'm not sure better fatties makes up for that decks dependancy on its namesake.

The taskmaster won't make demon stompy good. Like, you play this on turn 2 then what? Stop dropping other creature threats and hope your 5-turn clock gets there?

The Paladin is is a 3cc non-gigantic creature with a situational ability.

The Behemoth won't replace Emrakul in Elves (or Ezuri/Entity for that matter). Emrakul have fringe benefits besides beating (annihilating damage prevention permanents, annoying decking combo decks) and even then is overkill most of the time.

Sigarda could be a 1-of for Entomb hands lacking protection, but then again Grieselbrand conveniently fills that niche by itself.

[GGoober]

Avacyn and Iona will never bond! NEVER!

That might be kinda hot. Set's really fun looking so far, potentially broken 'miracle' cards are kinda stirring up the Legacy innovations again, which is great :D

[Cire]

So why did people stop freaking out about the barely-conditional 5-damage lightning bolt again? Easily the strongest card spoiled so far, and one that makes me fear for URx aggro decks. With good mulliganing I -could- even see it being played in Mono-R burn.

The timewalk looks somewhat strong but too niche to see mainstream play (and as IBA mentioned being strong isn't as important as being consistent in legacy). Almost -never- being a bad topdeck past turn 2 and having Brainstorm/Jace/Force to mitigate the damage early on makes it somewhat hard to judge though.

The white miracle may seem meh, but being a cheap and -broad- answer means it cannot get dismissed easily either - remember that if you're the controlling deck and don't miracle it off the top you're probably not under pressure anyhow (giving you time to set it up later), and control decks have Force and Swords to mitigate it being initially useless in the opener. I'd say it'll see play in place of Path to Exile.

Grease is obviously strong and will probably see play in Dredge (if only for being a black creature that can effectively win the game immediatly courtesy of 4x Cabal Therapy/Zombies - better Sadistic Hypnotist if you will). Not being pitchable to force means it isn't guaranteed to replace Jin in reanimator, but it's otherwise the better standalone creature of the two by far. Sneak Attack could probably use it, but I'm not sure better fatties makes up for that decks dependancy on its namesake.

The taskmaster won't make demon stompy good. Like, you play this on turn 2 then what? Stop dropping other creature threats and hope your 5-turn clock gets there?

The Paladin is is a 3cc non-gigantic creature with a situational ability.

The Behemoth won't replace Emrakul in Elves (or Ezuri/Entity for that matter). Emrakul have fringe benefits besides beating (annihilating damage prevention permanents, annoying decking combo decks) and even then is overkill most of the time.

Sigarda could be a 1-of for Entomb hands lacking protection, but then again Grieselbrand conveniently fills that niche by itself.

Im somewhat expecting there to be a deck that is 1/3 land 1/3 library manipulation and 1/3 miracles.... already it doesn't seem that bad

18 lands

4 Brainstrom
4 Top
3 Noxious Revival
3 Scroll Rack

4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare

20 Miracle cards
(right now you have a 1 mana artifact/creature/enchantment removal spell, a time walk and a 1 mana 5 damage spell... two more good miracle cards and you're set)

[JDK]

Oh, I was strictly speaking about not putting her into a Reanimator deck (some "players" actually thought about that...), two female angels would definitely be something I'd like to see together.

btw talking about non-discriminatory bonds...MTG has already been there thanks to Steve Argyle:

[Vacrix]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned miracle walk in merfolk. A blue vial deck with board presence and a relatively fast clock should be a nice fit, I wonder if the card is powerful enough to bring the archetype back. Thoughts?

It probably doesn't run enough deck manipulation. Granted, upon resolution its probably going to get you quite a bit of damage vs. smaller dudes that UR Delver has been running. The problem is getting to the point of resolution. I guess at the very least it could be Force fodder if you don't draw Brainstorm.. but you would also need to cut some stuff for Brainstorm.

EDIT:
Also.

Oh, I was strictly speaking about not putting her into a Reanimator deck (some "players" actually thought about that...), two female angels would definitely be something I'd like to see together.

btw talking about non-discriminatory bonds...MTG has already been there thanks to Steve Argyle:

Quite literally hot. I'd buy that if it were a play mat.

On the topic of Library manipulation and Miracle cards in conjunction.. I'd think that Lim Dul's Vault would be a good choice it can EoT surprise the mcfuck out of an opponent.

[Aggro_zombies]

It probably doesn't run enough deck manipulation. Granted, upon resolution its probably going to get you quite a bit of damage vs. smaller dudes that UR Delver has been running. The problem is getting to the point of resolution. I guess at the very least it could be Force fodder if you don't draw Brainstorm.. but you would also need to cut some stuff for Brainstorm.

At that point you are running Bant-Aggro-But-Worse, since you're shaving into either your creature count or the number of counters you run to work in 4 Brainstorm, X Temporal Manipulation - and you probably want some Ponders, too, just to be sure. Bant Aggro already has the maindeck manipulation, its creatures are generally better, and it doesn't have to worry about that godawful Merfolk manabase.

Quite literally hot. I'd buy that if it were a play mat.

It is a playmat. It was drawn by Steve Argyle (a Google search will find him) and he's selling them.

[Tombstalker]

I was thinking it could go in the same 'value' slots that standstill used to, at least as a 3 of. No brainstorm no tutors. It makes an easy choice for fow fodder if in the opening 9 but otherwise folk would likely always want to cast it I would think. Anyway I'm also really starting to warm to miracle walk in Canadian thresh. I can see walk being played in any aggressive blue deck. Looking forward to this!

[catmint]

Pretty good boost for Sneak attack. You can play the timewalk as a 2-3 of along with the normal library manipulation and maybe 2 jace. But more important the demon has a much bigger impact that in reanimator since sneak attacking with a Progenitus is pretty bad!

[bloodbrother]

I don't get the reason why Temporal Mastery is broken. Miracle 1U is not that scary, I would be shitting my pants if it's Madness 1U. The fact that you have to cast it immediately when you draw it is a big drawback to the real power of Time Walk, which is planning and developing your board and casting it at the best turn to cast it.

This card can truly be exploited if you use a permanent that continually fixes your top deck to bring out the real time walk within the card. If the card will indeed break legacy, they only need to ban permanents that continually fixes the top deck (Jace TMS, SDT, Etc) and leave the one shot top deck fixers (Brainstorm, Ponder, Etc) alone. What brainstorm and other one shot top deck fixer does is give it a variable suspend 1-2, with brainstorm having the extra option to remove it from your hand and variably suspend it from 1-2. Temporal Mastery + Brainstorm is like Ancestral Visions with variable suspend 1-2.

Combo plays brainstorm to dig for the combo pieces and shuffle away garbage in hand. People always see the dream scenario where they already have the combo, brainstorm, and temporal mastery in their hands making the combo 1 turn faster. This is usually not the case as you will be spending your brainstorms to dig and shuffle away garbage. How will you shuffle away garbage from your hand if you also have temporal mastery? If you brainstorm and put temporal mastery at the top and the garbage card second from top then congratulations, your time walk has just drawn you garbage.

I want to know other scenarios where this card will be broken other than the usual "my combo will be 1 turn faster"

[KobeBryan]

I don't get the reason why Temporal Mastery is broken. Miracle 1U is not that scary, I would be shitting my pants if it's Madness 1U. The fact that you have to cast it immediately when you draw it is a big drawback to the real power of Time Walk, which is planning and developing your board and casting it at the best turn to cast it.

This card can truly be exploited if you use a permanent that continually fixes your top deck to bring out the real time walk within the card. If the card will indeed break legacy, they only need to ban permanents that continually fixes the top deck (Jace TMS, SDT, Etc) and leave the one shot top deck fixers (Brainstorm, Ponder, Etc) alone. What brainstorm and other one shot top deck fixer does is give it a variable suspend 1-3, with brainstorm having the extra option to remove it from your hand and variably suspend it from 1-3.

so your idea is to ban a lot of cards for 1 card? WOuldn't it just be better to ban one card instead?

[bloodbrother]

so your idea is to ban a lot of cards for 1 card? WOuldn't it just be better to ban one card instead?

Well that would just be speculation that it will indeed be broken. Sensei's Divining Top is being run in conjuction with the fetchlands to shuffle away garbage. Now if you hold on to the timewalk on top of your library for more that a turn waiting for a better turn to cast it, then you have to live with the other cards beneath it and can't shuffle away those cards to find better cards that suits the situation right? A top deck time walk is only good if you are winning. If you're in a pretty bad position, it will only be shuffled away from the top of your library when you're digging for answers using the SDT+fetchlands engine. Only Jace has the potential to exploit temporal mastery as it also doubles as win con. So dropping Jace, then time walk is still a good use of temporal mastery speeding up jace's ultimate.

[JDK]

It is a playmat. It was drawn by Steve Argyle (a Google search will find him) and he's selling them.

Some guy on reddit used this picture for his playmat, I am not sure if Steve Argyle actually sold it as a playmat. He did however take the image down from his own website.

Luckily the internet doesn't forget and you can still get it for your own playmats.

[Vacrix]

So apparently there are going to be 2 new Walkers in Avacyn. Speculation? I'm kinda hoping for something that storm combo can side in. Was contemplating this the other day..

Jay Walka 1BB
Planewalker
+1 - Add BB to your mana pool
-2 - Target opponent discards a card at random.
-5 - Sacrifice all lands you control. Put that many 3/3 flying Demons into play.
2


Also, do you think they'll ever print a walker that costs less than 3? One mana would be pushing it but I think I can see a Walker costed at double colors, especially when that means its Snare able, and Pierce/Daze able if cast too early.

EDIT:
Just thought.. this might actually be better in terms of design

Jay Walka 1BB
Planewalker
+1 - Add BB to your mana pool
-3 - Target opponent discards 2 cards at random.
-6 - Sacrifice all lands you control. Put that many 3/3 flying Demons into play.
3

That way you have a Hymn to Tourach effect, an alternative win con, and effectively Dark Ritual all in one card. Pretty beast. Likely OP.

[Aggro_zombies]

So apparently there are going to be 2 new Walkers in Avacyn. Speculation? I'm kinda hoping for something that storm combo can side in. Was contemplating this the other day..

Jay Walka 1BB
Planewalker
+1 - Add BB to your mana pool
-2 - Target opponent discards a card at random.
-5 - Sacrifice all lands you control. Put that many 3/3 flying Demons into play.
2


Also, do you think they'll ever print a walker that costs less than 3? One mana would be pushing it but I think I can see a Walker costed at double colors, especially when that means its Snare able, and Pierce/Daze able if cast too early.

We already have a fairly decent idea of who the walkers are: there's a moonfolk walker whose picture is on the Avacyn Restored world information site (moonfolk were mono-U in Kamigawa, though she could also be UW judging by her art). The second is speculated to be the Skrillex-looking devil guy. Devils in Magic are usually red with black as a potential secondary color.

However, we've already had two black walkers in this block so far: Lili and Sorin. My guess is that we'll get a R/x and U/x walker.

Also, black doesn't get fast mana anymore. That's red's slice of the color pie now.

EDIT: Here: http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/art...restored/world

The second portrait is the devil guy, while the third is the moonfolk. If she is a moonfolk, she has to be from Kamigawa, which makes her a planeswalker. The second guy seems devilish, but is not consistent with the style of Innistrad's devils - furthermore, he's wearing clothes, and Innistrad devils generally have very low intelligence and no clothes.

[Vacrix]

Indeed. UW Planeswalker could be exciting.

What about Planeswalkers at 2cc? I think its possible in Legacy. Might cause problems in standard though where they don't have Pierce, Daze, and Snare.

[ThomasDowd]

Indeed. UW Planeswalker could be exciting.

What about Planeswalkers at 2cc? I think its possible in Legacy. Might cause problems in standard though where they don't have Pierce, Daze, and Snare.

the only way that would happen is if they were 2 colored mana symbols so they wouldn't be completely degenerate. wizards won't reprint stone rain because it is too good on the play they surely and limits interactivity. so they surely will not print something that on the play will literally destroy any notion of interactivity (you essentially get a free spell from turn two forward). think about it this way bitterblossom was the first 2 mana planeswalker and we all saw how that ended up in standard.

will never happen.