Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SIMMERING POT OF FECAL MATTER]

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I can just imagine Mark Rosewater and Tom LaPille sitting around; "Okay, now how can we make Standard more swingy?"

[dontbiteitholmes]

What do the players want hmmm....
Oh I know, they want more games to be decided by random top decks!

[majikal]

This is obviously a growth by destruction move. The game's economy is in danger of collapsing under its own weight, so they need to cull some of the players to make it more sustainable.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

This is obviously a growth by destruction move. The game's economy is in danger of collapsing under its own weight, so they need to cull some of the players to make it more sustainable.

If we don't kill them, they'll die.

[Kich867]

What do the players want hmmm....
Oh I know, they want more games to be decided by random top decks!

Isn't that what the game is decided by already? I mean there's your opening 7 or whatever which kind of dictate how the game may start but the rest of it is just random top decks that you hope aren't totally shit against whatever you're playing.

Even the initial 7 are just random top decks.. The only way around that would be if magic up and decided to let players choose their opening 7 cards, which is an interesting prospect.

[Humphrey]

Every time I hear Miracle, this sound starts in my head.
Dont listen to it ;)

[Leftconsin]

I can just imagine Mark Rosewater and Tom LaPille sitting around; "Okay, now how can we make Standard more swingy?"

After watching an interview of Rosewater at the last PT I'm absolutely certain that's true.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

One mana super-wrath? Are you kidding me? I don't really know if it's broken, but this Miracle mechanic is going to cause some serious rage. Tables will be flipped, hulkouts will occur, etc.

[bruizar]

So, how conditional are miracle cards when you run a whole deck of them? Sure your opener sucks, but each consecutive card you draw is heavily undercosted/splashy. I don't think I would play a deck like that, but it makes me wonder.

[lordofthepit]

Something that actually seems worth tutoring up with Personal Tutor.

I'm guessing that this is the Miracle card that will see the most play in Legacy. (Reforge the Soul being the most powerful in a vacuum.)

[majikal]

Uhh... Take that, Swords to Plowshares?

Also holy shit this guy is good. Pitch to FoW early in the game and then fucking cast it when you need to close the deal. Nice.

[phonics]

What the fuck, I dont understand how these cards are supposed to make the game better (more fun, more skill intensive, whatever), or even remain at parity. The other cards could be argued either way, but I think Hollowed Burial for W is just stupid.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Isn't that what the game is decided by already? I mean there's your opening 7 or whatever which kind of dictate how the game may start but the rest of it is just random top decks that you hope aren't totally shit against whatever you're playing.

Even the initial 7 are just random top decks.. The only way around that would be if magic up and decided to let players choose their opening 7 cards, which is an interesting prospect.

Most games are decided by drawing cards then using your best judgement on when to play them for the maximum effect, not wheeling off your top card and playing it instantly with zero thought because it is now extremely undercosted. If I wanted to do that I'd play poker or war. I want to think about how to play the cards at the right time and in the right order and let strategy decide the game as much as possible. Randomness is already a part of the game, I don't think anyone was particularly asking for more games to be decided by some random variable instead of play skill.

[Koby]

I'm going into hibernation. Wake me up with Ravnica Returns.

[Leftconsin]

So, "Activate Relic of Progenitus. Target myself" is a thing now.

[Kich867]

Uhh... Take that, Swords to Plowshares?

Also holy shit this guy is good. Pitch to FoW early in the game and then fucking cast it when you need to close the deal. Nice.

This is probably the most well designed card I've seen so far from the set. It's not impractically broken, it's just very, very cool. This gives Mono Blue Control a late-game beater that they pretty badly need, on top of making force pitches a bit easier--who cares about pitching it to force, it's basically still in your hand anyways.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Am I the only one who noticed its a 3/3 for whose ability isn't even necessarily useful? Lightning bolt is a thing. Sure you can pitch it to force, but if that is the best use for this card I don't see it even being good in niche decks.

[Aggro_zombies]

Am I the only one who noticed its a 3/3 for whose ability isn't even necessarily useful? Lightning bolt is a thing. Sure you can pitch it to force, but if that is the best use for this card I don't see it even being good in niche decks.

This. "Pitch it to Force, spend a million mana to get a 3/3 that dies to my opponent's 3/2 that he flipped on turn two" does not seem like the best thing ever.

I mean, on turn four in blue, you can tap out for Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Why in God's name would you ever want to tap out for a 3/3 flying? Or wait until you can cast a 3/3 flying with mana up? That seems terrible in every way. The marginal extra value you get from Force won't matter when you're still required to pay retail to actually get it.

[majikal]

This. "Pitch it to Force, spend a million mana to get a 3/3 that dies to my opponent's 3/2 that he flipped on turn two" does not seem like the best thing ever.

I mean, on turn four in blue, you can tap out for Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Why in God's name would you ever want to tap out for a 3/3 flying? Or wait until you can cast a 3/3 flying with mana up? That seems terrible in every way. The marginal extra value you get from Force won't matter when you're still required to pay retail to actually get it.

Who said anything about maindecking it? It seems like it breaks Stoneblade mirrors wide open and probably has some applications against a few other grindy decks.

MUC might want it. It's just a good card. It's well-designed.

[Suneloon]

This. "Pitch it to Force, spend a million mana to get a 3/3 that dies to my opponent's 3/2 that he flipped on turn two" does not seem like the best thing ever.

I mean, on turn four in blue, you can tap out for Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Why in God's name would you ever want to tap out for a 3/3 flying? Or wait until you can cast a 3/3 flying with mana up? That seems terrible in every way. The marginal extra value you get from Force won't matter when you're still required to pay retail to actually get it.

I generally agree with what you say. But is it not possible that a blue creature that just keeps comming back (paired with something like the already mentioned relic of prog), has a place in legacy? Maybe in MUC?

Edit: Dang, beaten to it!