Brainstorm
Force of Will
Lion's Eye Diamond
Counterbalance
Sensei's Divining Top
Tarmogoyf
Phyrexian Dreadnaught
Goblin Lackey
Standstill
Natural Order
I think the variability with price of Imperial Seal is in language. 350 or so good for foreign but English ones can easily go for around 700 depending on condition.
…no matter how much you think you love somebody, you’ll step back when the pool of their blood edges up too close.
Are people really arguing that Grisel is easier to get in play than Bargain??? Did I wake up in some Bizarro land? You can HARD CAST Bargain .... I play vintage sometimes and I never EVER have to worry about cheating it into play, one or two lands, plus a ritual or two, BAM it is in play with Force backup and you have now lost the game. Last I checked Dark Ritual and Cabal Ritual still exist and are VERY good at generating 6 mana .... Grisel is NOT Bargain, it is close, but 7 life for 7 cards is honestly not as powerful, though comparable, to 1 life per card at instant speed. I will say it is on the cusp of being on the watch list, but since it is still relatively new, it shouldn't be banned until we as players and deck builders have a chance to try and adjust.
If you want to compare it to Ad Nauseum, then stop right there, Ad Nauseum is worse by all accounts. You can randomly just variance yourself to death with Ad Nauseum, you almost never ever do that with Bargain. With Bargain in play I can run 3 copies of Tendrils in the maindeck, ramp up a bit, Force your countermagic, and pact it, then hit you with a mini tendrils, draw that many cards again and nuke you with a second Tendrils all in the same turn all the while ignoring CMC on your cards because it is 1 life per card not CMC = life lost (this is a LOT less restrictive in deckbuilding allowing you to run Force of Will without fear.) Ad Nauseum can't do this, it has to get all the right pieces immediately, if it stumbles, it is over (which admittedly it does not happen very often, but it happens a LOT more often than Bargain self destruciton.)
None of the black tutors can come off the list, Mystical can, because it was bullshit that it went on it in the first place. Minor mill strategies or cards like Predict just simply get better and see play again. yes it might also fuel a few more combo lists, but it can also help the aggro control decks like it used to, which can in turn help keep combo in check.
You realize the prices listed on magic sites only count if they have at least one of the cards in stock right? On findmagiccards.com I saw pretty much no power for sale, but the max store buy price for Mox Sapphire was almost $100 less than they were paying for Imperial Seal.Originally Posted by Lord Seth
Checked a couple other online pricing outlets and yeah, when someone is trying to sell a HP Mox Sapphire for over $800 they don't count.
On Ebay an English Seal starts around $550 minimum.
big links in sigs are obnoxious -PR
Don't disrespect my dojo dude...
Sweep the leg!
I'm in agreement with you that Mystical Tutor should not have been banned and I agree that Brainstorm should not be banned.
But on the Show and Tell arguement i would love to see it banned. Although I believe it is an overpowered card that's not why i think it deserves the ban hammer. I just find it a 'dumb' card in general (poorly designed that is). Any card that allows you to put into play a permanent for 3 mana irrespective of that permanents cost is just stupid (imo). Costs exist for a reason, and that is to make powerful cards harder to play. Sure you could argue that reanimator (entomb / exhume) and other decks that cheat cards into play do the same thing, but at least they're not one card combos where your only out is to counter. I just think Show and Tell is a bullshit card that the game would be better off without, although i'm sure plenty will disagree with me on this one!
I am hoping they unban something -vs- banning more stuff, I don't think griselbrand is a fur sure to get axed, it still isn't putting up the numbers RUG has been, though one could argue they might hit both so, who knows! if top 8's becoming nothing but griselbrand though, then I guess we can see where its going, but that hasn't even happened yet, I think so far there's only been 1 top 8 with 3 show & tell griselbrands, where as rug has multiple top 8 showings more regularly, and I don't think they're at the position of hitting something in RUG yet, but I could be wrong there too. >^,^<
Last edited by feline; 08-12-2012 at 05:04 PM.
Primary legacy deck High Tide primer
Show and Tell is not a 1-card combo since you need to have it, and a win-con card in hand. In terms of power 'Show and Brand' seems like it's between Flash/Hulk and Aluren, that is to say, it looks like borderline ban material.
More like:
Flash-----------------Show and Tell---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Aluren
"Want all, lose all."
I think it's semantics at this point, but calling show and tell a 2 card combo is misleading. 2 card combos usually have to have a permanent in play (painter/grindstone - helm/leyline - hexmage/depths) AND the 2nd spell has to resolve.
Maybe a 1.5 card combo?
Would you say dumb players lose to dumb cards?
It is actually the opposite. Dumb cards let dumb players win.
More like, dumb cards let dumb players think they can win, but the dumb players end up losing anyway.
The land of waiting where the dead sit in their thoughts' shadow, by no moon lit.
I resemble that remark.
"And she loves to show me off, of course
Smiles every time my face is up in The Source"
Are you calling yourself a dumb player?
Do you even have to ask?
I always have to ask. I'm that guy.
I'm about as bad as they come. Got top 8 at my LSG last Sat with... you guessed it... Sneak N Show.
I seem to be the only person that can't beat Rug or Maverick with the deck.
(lost to Rug and Maverick in the swiss and rug in round 1 of the top 8)
"And she loves to show me off, of course
Smiles every time my face is up in The Source"
- To be fair, Rug is a good choice to fight X combo deck and Maverick players have tools to fight SnT.
Mav is easy, RUG isn't as easy as people say. Learning to mulligan is key.
LOL Thanks. The best part about legacy is no matter what they do with the banned list next week, there will always be another pile of broken a player like myself can oops their way into the top 8 with.
Banning cards is dangerous and should not be jumped into before the people actually playing the game have a chance to hate it out and adapt themselves.
"And she loves to show me off, of course
Smiles every time my face is up in The Source"
Mav is tough when they go T1: Hierarch, T2: Thalia, T3: Knight t4: Karakas. on the play with you holding misdir and pierce.
post board turn 2 show n tell into sneak attack (holding griselbrand) and they flip linvala. Good times good times... (i'm sure i misplayed not just dropping grisel but I got greedy and thought in no way would is see linvala. Reading other deck forums is tech.
"And she loves to show me off, of course
Smiles every time my face is up in The Source"
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