All B/R update speculation.

[joemauer]

Tinker tutors for the card Show&Tell requires you to already have the card in hand.

This doesn't really answer my question:

If one resolves which one is more likely to win you the game?

[rxavage]

This doesn't really answer my question:

If one resolves which one is more likely to win you the game?

That wasn't your question. Ask yourself this question: which spell is better resolved, the one the gets me the specific win-con in context of game-state or the one that lets me play whatever I have in hand..

[Zinch]

That wasn't your question. Ask yourself this question: which spell is better resolved, the one the gets me the specific win-con in context of game-state or the one that lets me play whatever I have in hand..

Also... good luck playing S&T puting griselbrand in play and your opponenet putting emrakul...

[joemauer]

That wasn't your question. Ask yourself this question: which spell is better resolved, the one the gets me the specific win-con in context of game-state or the one that lets me play whatever I have in hand..

Because they are so many awesome silver bullet artifacts out there compared to just Show and Telling in a card and winning on the spot.

[TooCloseToTheSun]

Because they are so many awesome silver bullet artifacts out there compared to just Show and Telling in a card and winning on the spot.

Also, tinker is one sided, your opponent doesn't get to put anything into play.

[Erdvermampfa]

In my view, there's no way to justify the ban of Tinker as long as Show and Tell is legal. Seriously, what can be tutored in by Tinker which is even worse than our notorious Show and Tell targets? Neither Blightsteel nor Darksteel Collossus end the game as quickly as Griselbrand and to a lesser extent Emrakul do, while both are vulnerable to Swords which is still the most common removal. Also, sacrificing an artifact is a deal.

Speculation: They printed that new shitcard to promote the excessive prevalence of Show and Tell decks in the upcoming months so they have better opportunities to justify the ban in September...

[Moondancerbb]

In my view, there's no way to justify the ban of Tinker as long as Show and Tell is legal. Seriously, what can be tutored in by Tinker which is even worse than our notorious Show and Tell targets? Neither Blightsteel nor Darksteel Collossus end the game as quickly as Griselbrand and to a lesser extent Emrakul do, while both are vulnerable to Swords which is still the most common removal. Also, sacrificing an artifact is a deal.

Speculation: They printed that new shitcard to promote the excessive prevalence of Show and Tell decks in the upcoming months so they have better opportunities to justify the ban in September...

Blightsteel kills in one hit and tinker is easily castable on turn one. Its a one card combo where at least show and tell is a two card.

[Infinitium]

It's a one card combo except that it requires two cards to cast.

That said, dedicated Tinker decks would probably revolve around hardlocks and combos rather than Collossii (unlike Vintage not being compact is less of an issue when you can run the enabler as a 4x).

[DrJones]

Blightsteel kills in one hit and tinker is easily castable on turn one. Its a one card combo where at least show and tell is a two card.

It's quite ironic that you say so, when Tinker requires two cards as well, and has to actually cast the two in order to win.

[rxavage]

It's quite ironic that you say so, when Tinker requires two cards as well, and has to actually cast the two in order to win.

Because there aren't any 0 costing artifacts? Or artifacts that produce mana? Come on now, sometimes you people are so trite.



Also, learn what irony means.

[xfxf]

How's Tinker+Artifact into Blightsteel colossus better than Entomb+Reanimate into Griselbrand? Also Swords to Plowshares is a card as well as Terminus and Daze and Steel Sabotage...

Edit: Forgot the indestructibility and later edited the list of cards which really answer the big robot.

Tinker being a tutor shouldn't be a reson to ban the card imo because we already have tutors in the format with their own restrictions. Merchant Scroll, Infernal Tutor in stack based decks are as much tutors as Tinker is in a permenant based deck.

Edit2: Oh, also the Grim Tutor.

[rxavage]

How's Tinker+Artifact into Blightsteel colossus better than Entomb+Reanimate into Griselbrand? Also Swords to Plowshares is a card as well as Terminus and Daze and Ancient Grudge and Qasali Pridemage...

Tinker being a tutor shouldn't be a reson to ban the card imo because we already have tutors in the format with their own restrictions. Merchant Scroll, Infernal Tutor in stack based decks are as much tutors as Tinker is in a permenant based deck.

I'd be more than happy to see the card unbanned. I don't know if it's any better or worse, there is only speculation.

[joemauer]

I'd be more than happy to see the card unbanned. I don't know if it's any better or worse, there is only speculation.

The fact that neither Show and Tell nor Tinker is more broken than the other says one of two things: Tinker should be unbanned or Show and Tell should be banned. It is overly apparent that something is wrong with Legacy's B & R list.

Also, Land Tax should have been unbanned two years, and Mind Twist should have been unbanned one year ago.

[millerd33]

I think there is a pretty big difference between being able to put a card from you hand into play and putting a card from your deck into play.

[dontbiteitholmes]

The fact that neither Show and Tell nor Tinker is more broken than the other says one of two things: Tinker should be unbanned or Show and Tell should be banned. It is overly apparent that something is wrong with Legacy's B & R list.

Also, Land Tax should have been unbanned two years, and Mind Twist should have been unbanned one year ago.

What? How does Show and Tell even come close to Tinker? You guys are so mental sometimes.

With Show and Tell you need to run 7-8 S&T targets that you will never hardcast. With Tinker you need to run maybe one or two.
Show and Tell lets the opponent put something into play as well. Sometimes that card is going to blow you out, Tinker is one sided.
Running artifacts is not a disadvantage. All artifacts are going to do something good on their own anyways, not just be a useless card to activate Tinker.
Show and Tell is a combo you have to build the entire deck around. Tinker decks are going to have a plan B that involves winning without casting Tinker.

I could go on but why bother? If you guys can't figure out why Tinker is still banned there is no hope for you.

[rxavage]

The fact that neither Show and Tell nor Tinker is more broken than the other says one of two things: Tinker should be unbanned or Show and Tell should be banned. It is overly apparent that something is wrong with Legacy's B & R list.

Also, Land Tax should have been unbanned two years, and Mind Twist should have been unbanned one year ago.

I won't argue against that. It is possible that Tinker the more powerful card at one point in time which is why it is on the B&R list. As to the reason it is still banned I can only speculate that maybe WotC is being cautious because of the anti "blue" sentiment among some players. As to when certain cards should have been unbanned thats just conjecture and arbitrary. There are a few cards that could come of the list and probably will eventually. I think the list should be as small as possible and if people don't like "blue" dominance then they can play casual, there is no reason a competitive enviroment has to be "fair". If I think it's unfair that I cannot be a professional football player making millions of dollars even though I lack the skill and genetics do you think the NFL should enforce rules and regulations so that I can achieve my "dream"? I'm tired of all these entitled cry**** running around dictating how things should be, it is nothing but selfish and self serving.



Also, this:

What? How does Show and Tell even come close to Tinker? You guys are so mental sometimes.

With Show and Tell you need to run 7-8 S&T targets that you will never hardcast. With Tinker you need to run maybe one or two.
Show and Tell lets the opponent put something into play as well. Sometimes that card is going to blow you out, Tinker is one sided.
Running artifacts is not a disadvantage. All artifacts are going to do something good on their own anyways, not just be a useless card to activate Tinker.
Show and Tell is a combo you have to build the entire deck around. Tinker decks are going to have a plan B that involves winning without casting Tinker.

I could go on but why bother? If you guys can't figure out why Tinker is still banned there is no hope for you.

[joemauer]

I think the list should be as small as possible and if people don't like "blue" dominance then they can play casual, there is no reason a competitive enviroment has to be "fair". If I think it's unfair that I cannot be a profession football player making millions of dollars even though I lack the skill and genetics do you think the NFL should enforce rules and regulations so that I can achieve my "dream"? I'm tired of all these entitled cry**** running around dictating how things should be, it is nothing but selfish and self serving.

Don't get me started on the NFL's regulations. I'm a Saints fan.

[leegoo]

I think there is a pretty big difference between being able to put a card from you hand into play and putting a card from your deck into play.

This. Also it being any card in your library as opposed to what you have in hand is a world of difference.

[rxavage]

Don't get me started on the NFL's regulations. I'm a Saints fan.

, You guys had that one season...

[LOurs]

anyone who's comparing tinker to show&tell in term of power raw probably never ran tinker once
Even if S&T maybe needs to be fixed at some point due to recent releases, tinker is a uber-unfair card compared to S&T. Test it.