[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[Arianrhod]

Has anyone else considered trying Future Sight in any of the various blue versions? It seems like a strong bomb, and between Top (1: Draw a card) and our copious shuffles, we should be able to abuse it. I haven't actually tried it yet, but it seems interesting.

[Star|Scream]

I'm going to alter your criteria a little:

Too expensive to cast in the first 4 turns -> High enough of a CMC that it doesn't die to Deed.

I dislike overly expensive things, but I like things that don't die to our own Deeds when we sweep the board. This is one reason I really, really hate Hornet Queen. If you need to crack a Deed, you're left with a 2/2 Flying Deathtouch FOR SEVEN.

Having some sort of evasion and being GSZable are both pluses....I think that pitching to FoW isn't a bad thing, but it's not necessary for a bomb either.

Consider the role that Qweerios wants. He wants to win the game once he's stabilized. 2/1 beatdown won't get there very often. ConSphinx is okay, but it's very likely going to die immediately because it provides ludicrous advantage. That's fine -- you'll usually draw at least 2 cards off of it, and scare Griselbrand decks away from doing their strongest play (drawing 14). But it doesn't have protection, and it gets chumped all day.

IMO, expensive CMC wincons in -any- Nic Fit list should fit most of the following criteria:
-) Enters or leaves play trigger, or powerful activated ability that does not require tapping (does something)
-) Has protection of some sort
-) Has a high CMC so it doesn't die to Deed (rules out Avenger of Zendikar as well)
-) Has evasion of some kind
-) Being green is a plus
-) Synergizes overall with the rest of the specific list

Obviously a lot of the six-drops we tend to run fail a lot of these. Sun Titan, for example, has a broken enters trigger, a high CMC, tons of synergy, and evasion if Deed is around (blow deed while holding priority in the declare attacks step). It's not green, and it doesn't have protection at all. SunnyT is one of the better options, but it doesn't fill all the criteria.

Let's look at SSS:
-) No trigger
-) All of the protection
-) High CMC
-) Has evasion (twice over)
-) Is green
-) Has synergy, kind of.

The reason I say it has some synergy is because it fills a role that Qweerios's deck appears to need. His deck needs a shroudy evasion critter that brings big beats. I'm not saying that SSS is better than Goyf...that's silly. What I am saying, is that SSS is better than Goyf in the role Qweerios needs filled. Obviously not having a trigger is a big deal, and the fact that it costs 7 is also a big deal.

If it was an option, I'd tell Qweerios to run Sigarda in a heartbeat. She's tons better than SSS, I fully grant. But he's not in white (let alone double white). His options are more limited. I'm not even on-board that he wants a 7-drop in the first place.

But, if he's willing to run Hornet Queen, there is no reason not to run SSS.

Sure it loses the race to Goyf/Knight/Ooze. But they also lose the race to Pernicious Deed. And SSS will just sit there turning sideways every turn, and there isn't a goddamn thing that your opponent can do about it.

I think the issue here is that if you land hornet queen while your opponent has a goyf out you don't need deed. Further, hornet queen stops emrakul and grizzy. I'm not saying it's what should be run, but I do think that fills what he's looking for better than SSS.

[HoneyT]

@litenkatt

Megadeus nailed it as far as changes go. For your expected metagame you described, cutting Primeval for another Grave Titan and swapping the Hermit for ThragTUSK are the best changes. Primeval doesn't do much for you unless you have a couple extra utility lands. I use him in my straight GB version when I also run two Treetop Villages so he does a good Grave Titan impersonation. Since you aren't, another Grave is just better. And as Arianrhod said, TUSK is just too insane not to play. Try him. You will be a believer. Other than that the list looks just fine.

@Arianrhod

Truth be told here, this might be the first time I've disagreed with you, but for Qweerios' needs, for the reasons Star Scream listed, I think Hornet Queen is better than SSS in that particular build. I don't care for the Queen too much either, but I do think it's better there.

[Star|Scream]

Has anyone else considered trying Future Sight in any of the various blue versions? It seems like a strong bomb, and between Top (1: Draw a card) and our copious shuffles, we should be able to abuse it. I haven't actually tried it yet, but it seems interesting.

What is the intereaction in a tournament with future sight and top? Do you keep the top card revealed while looking at cards 2+3 hidden? Same thing with brainstorm. As you draw 3 cards, do you flip over the 4th card, then unflip it and put two back?

[Fropper]

Regarding Futuresight

5/1/2007: If the top card of your library changes while you're casting a spell or activating an ability, the new top card won't be revealed until you finish casting that spell or activating that ability.
5/1/2007: If you draw multiple cards at once, reveal each one before you draw it.

[Star|Scream]

Regarding Futuresight

5/1/2007: If the top card of your library changes while you're casting a spell or activating an ability, the new top card won't be revealed until you finish casting that spell or activating that ability.
5/1/2007: If you draw multiple cards at once, reveal each one before you draw it.

bleh. But I guess it won't matter if you're brainstorming AND getting to cast the next card as well

Draw Draw Draw, put back a creature and a land, flip the land, play the land, play the creature, play next card. If any deck could have enough mana to completely abuse that card, it's this one.

Seems ridiculous, but it can't be that easy in practice, can it?

[Arianrhod]

I dunno. I remember some time back I saw a Thopter deck that was running Future Sight. He was just completely going off with it...even without playing off the top of your deck, paying 1 mana to draw a card is pretty batshit. (Draw off Top, play it for 1 from the top of your deck, draw off Top, etc as many times as you want). I think it's worth experimenting with at bare minimum.

And yeah, you reveal each card you draw off of Brainstorm...but you won't reveal when you're looking with Top.

[slikwilly]

@Slikwilly -- Ordinarily I'd say you're right RE ShowRectorOmni or whatever the fuck they're calling it. However, I don't think that it's actually sunk in that it could be a real deck yet. From what I've heard, a lot of people are thinking it's just a rogue brew that won't have any actual impact on the format. I think that if you want to play Rector at this week's SCG, you're probably safe to do so. If ShowRectorOmni takes off, then it'll definitely be a good idea to let that lay low for a while. I just don't see it taking off over the dedicated OmniTell deck, frankly. Rector seems largely unnecessary in the archetype. What does your Rector list look like? If you do decide to run it, let's get it as looked over as we can.

Good question. I haven't been able to play for a couple weeks and like the look of your most recent list. It'll probably be something similar though I lack a Moat. Possibly a Humility in that slot since it also plays nice with Elspeth (though it solves a different class of problems). I also like having a Stronghold in addition to Nightmare, so I'll be running the extra land.

Have you had any trouble with 22 lands in a 62 card deck?

[Arianrhod]

@Slikwilly -- It's 61 actually, and no =) The manabase has actually been in its currently configuration for quite a long while now...it's been perfect for me. I've never been too impressed with Stronghold outside of AggroLoam, but if you want to use it, go nuts. I've always thought that Nightmare does it better, and with Rectors to tutor it...no need for a third colorless land. But, again, I'll emphasize that it's my personal preference, and I don't believe there to be an appreciable difference.

[slikwilly]

@Slikwilly -- It's 61 actually, and no =) The manabase has actually been in its currently configuration for quite a long while now...it's been perfect for me. I've never been too impressed with Stronghold outside of AggroLoam, but if you want to use it, go nuts. I've always thought that Nightmare does it better, and with Rectors to tutor it...no need for a third colorless land. But, again, I'll emphasize that it's my personal preference, and I don't believe there to be an appreciable difference.

So it is. Lets hope I can count mana on Sunday better than I can count cards in your deck today :)

Stronghold has saved my but before, so I like to have it, though in the past I've also only run 2 Rectors, so maybe now running 3 the Stronghold is expendable.

There's a few other changes I'll have to make due to card avx: -1 Baneslayer, -1 Eternal Witness (not happy about that, I've got another but it's not in my possession at the moment), -1 Top. I think I'm filling those slots as +1 Eladrami's Call (though w/ only Baneslayer an obvious target this is a questionable choice), +1 Ooze, +1 Thrun.

[Megadeus]

I forget who was asking about the straight GB version but I personally think it is the best. If nothing at least the most tuned. And being able to run Hymn is sooo good. Also it has the best mana base by far as well. I like my fires build because it's a fun engine. But GB is so well tuned

[jbone2016]

So at scgminn this weekend (hometown, yay, no long car rides) I'll be playing rector fit.
Now, I like Eladrami's Call a lot but I haven't played with chord of calling at all yet.

My big fatties will be thrun, sigarda, tusk, percy, sun titan and baneslayer.

thoughts?

[Arianrhod]

I don't like Percy at all, personally. If you're on Moat, Thrun is bad. If not, he's fine. Eladrami's Call is the safe choice for this event, since Chord of Calling is very much in development still.

Also, @ Slik Calling for Rector is perfectly fine. Without the 2nd Baneslayer it gets a little more sad, but it's still good. You could try to get an E.Wit on site...probably wouldn't be too expensive. I'd also try to acquire the 3rd Top if at all possible....the Baneslayer can be subbed for a Call if necessary, and then replace Moat with Ooze. That seems fine. 3rd Top and 2nd Witness are both pretty crucial though =(

[Megadeus]

I still don't think that you need more than 2 tops. It is a good car but not a needed card. Green Sun a lot of the time is enough deck manipulation.

[litenkatt]

Appreciate your advices. I made few changes:
+1 Thragtusk
-1 Deranged Hermit

+1 Garruk Relentless
-1 Karn Liberated
I am really not sure about this. It just feels like Karn is too slow, and I have good win conditions already. Garruk might help me a bit more against aggro decks. Perhaps I should just skip the 3rd planeswalker and go with something else but I really dont know what.

+2 Treetop Village
-1 Swamp
-1 Volrath's Stronghold
Volrath's Stronghold is also a card I feel might be too slow. Though it's nice to search for tower+stronghold with primeval titan, but I think 2x treetop village is stronger. Should also help me a bit more against aggro decks. It's also quite saucey(is that even a word?) that you can use treetop village for Recurring Nightmare sheningans.

CREATURES (15)
1 Thragtusk
1 Grave Titan
1 Primeval Titan
2 Eternal Witness
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Dryad Arbor
ENCHANTMENTS (5)
4 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
SORCERIES (11)
3 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
INSTANTS (1)
1 Skeletal Scrying
PLANESWALKERS (3)
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Liliana of the Veil
ARTIFACTS (3)
3 Sensei’s Divining Top
LANDS (22)
4 Forest
4 Swamp
3 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Treetop Village
4 Bayou
1 Phyrexian Tower

[Kung Fu English]

On my way to a local legacy tourney. Expecting like 20 people probably. Last time there was rug delver, lands, Spanish inq, dredge, storm, I know high tide will make an appearance today. Here is my list as it stands.


Creature (17)
1x Academy Rector
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Eternal Witness
1x Fierce Empath
1x Grave Titan
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Master of the Wild Hunt
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Sun Titan
1x Thragtusk
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
4x Veteran Explorer

Enchantment (5)
3x Pernicious Deed
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Recurring Nightmare

Instant (3)
3x Swords to Plowshares

Land (23)
3x Bayou
1x Dryad Arbor
3x Forest
1x Marsh Flats
2x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
2x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath

Sorcery (11)
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Thoughtseize
1x Vindicate

Artifact (3)
3x Sensei's Divining Top

Sideboard (15)
3x Extirpate
1x Qasali Pridemage
3x Carpet of Flowers
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Memoricide
2x Karakas
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Ichneumon Druid
1x Chains of Mephistopheles

Last thought is: maybe -1 master and -1 thought seize for +2 liliana of the veil?

[Megadeus]

@ Kung Fu English:
With a meta like that I would try out mainboarding Teeg over master of the Wild hunt

[jbone2016]

It seems that this new Show and tell/rector deck will see some play this weekend. Rector is $20 and sold out at #scgminn.

[mordraid]

what about diabolic intent in the rector build ? sacrifice the rector to get omniscience in play and get wharver bomb you want with the diabolic intent and cast it for free. It doesn't cost a lot of cards for the rector builds and diabolic intent can be use with veteran explorer as well, so it's not a dead card if you don't have rector in play.

Maybe it's been talked before but i haven't seen it.

[Osmin]

what about diabolic intent in the rector build ? sacrifice the rector to get omniscience in play and get wharver bomb you want with the diabolic intent and cast it for free. It doesn't cost a lot of cards for the rector builds and diabolic intent can be use with veteran explorer as well, so it's not a dead card if you don't have rector in play.

Maybe it's been talked before but i haven't seen it.

I play diabolic intent in rector build. And it is very good. The main problem with omniscience is that you can draw it manually. And there is no way to return it back to the library.