I had the same problem against High Tide, with Chalice 1 and Crime conflict. (I was running your Championships list). The thought about explosives never occured to me, the best I could come up with was to set the next Chalice to 3, but he was one turn too fast.
Question: Do you think Thalia is a must play in the SB? Since your last list contains 3.
Would adding just 1 savannah be enough to support thalia? I know that against the decks where you would bring in thalia (combo mostly) do nu run land destruction but the list doesnt run that many fetchlands to actually find the needed color.
I could see taking out one Tar Pit and add a Collonade but the tar pits are much better if you ask me. Unblockable and much easier on the activation cost.
High tide will be an extremely difficult matchup. At least for the list i ran. Chalice@1 gets bounced EOT and ravens crime is really slow.
Perhaps i will run an enlightened tutor list next time I pick up Lands.
Understood, I have also wondered if Barbarian Ring was worth including as a kill condition? or is Tarpit/Factory just faster/better?Originally Posted by TraxDaMax
I have tested with the SCG list and a few other variants and understand how to play the deck, just unsure how I want to focus my build as of now
I am looking at the Ghent list though as I like running Worm Harvest as a kill condition
Currently Playing:
Dredge, The Rock, Lands, Spiral Tide, Affinity
What's the Enlightened Tutor target against Combo? Cannonist? I'm not saying one is better than the other, but running a savannah is plenty of white, since there's 4 Moxes, and a Karakas, and 3-4 fetch lands. I will be running 2 Raven's Crimes in my Mainboard, as well as Thalia in the SB at the Invitational. You run 34-37 lands. The deck can support 6 colors... Lol
[SIZE="1"][I]Team [Insert a name here - Akron?] - [very big point with adverbs modifying adjectives and other adverbs]
I have always wondered as well, if anyone has had success with Dark Tutelege. Seems just as good as Bob.
The good thing about it is you can find it with Tutor. I'll be goldfishing this, this week. This diversity gives the deck a serious edge I think. Opponents will have three different engines to deal with.
An enchantment, a creature, and a graveyard. This makes it even harder for them I would think.
Hey folks, i went 3-1-1 yesterday to secure top8 /20 then won the quarterfinals and split the top 4 with 3 mates for foil Maze (getting those exchanged :D) and a FTV:Realms + some singles.
MAINDECK
4x Mox Diamond
4x Exploration
2x Manabond
4x Life from the Loam
3x Intuition
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Zuran Orb
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Cursed Totem
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Ravens Crime
1x Sylvan Library
1x Oblivion Stone
3x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
1x Savannah
1x Forest
1x Misty Rainforest
2x Wooded Foothills
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Karakas
1x Academy Ruins
4x Maze of Ith
4x Wasteland
2x Rishadan Port
3x Tranquil Thicket
3x Tolaria west
2x Creeping Tarpit
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Tower of the Magistrate
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Bojuka Bog
SIDEBOARD
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Dark Confidant
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Oblivion Stone
2x Trinisphere
I was lacking two Rishadan Ports, so i replaced them with Tower annd a 3rd Thicket, a friend forgot to bring the two missing ones he wanted to lend me.
R1 ANT
Short story: G1 T3, G2 T1 kill. He went Island, Probe, saw the two Thalias in my hand to which he had no outs and continued with Petal, Petal, LED, LED, Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Ponder response crack LED's for 3B 3R and finding an Infernal Tutor in the top 3.
0 : 1
R2 Goblins
I won game one in 20 Minutes because he conceded to Glacial Chasm, Tabernacle, triple Exploration and Crucible alongside Zuran Orb when i started quartering him out of red mana.
Game 2 i messed up. I stabilized somewhere around 12 life and miscounted my mana by one when i put Crucible on to of my Library with Ruins, drew it, played it and then realized i had no mana source that comes untapped, so i could not play my Ensnaring Bridge. He drew the fourth Wasteland on his turn, blew up Chasm, dropped Krenko, Chieftain, Piledriver, activated Krenko for 10 Token an attacked me for 76, i was only able to generate 70 Life.... staring at the Ensnaring Bridge in my hand...
0 : 1 : 1
R3 Merfolks
Dropped an early Tabernacle game 1 where he forgot to pay, to which he scooped as he had 3 Standstills in hand to my Crucible, Exploration, Waste, Maze board.
Game 2 he had the fast draw with Reejerey and Double Mishra, while Forcing my Ensnaring Bridge.
Game 3 i dropped T1 Confidant, T2 Confidant, T3 Confidant/Ostone, charged them up with counters, blew the board added Tar Pit and aggrod out ;)
1 : 1 : 1
R4 Canadian Threshold
Game 1 he had Double Mungo Triple Bolt, with the last Bolt in Topdeck mode where i could have stabilized the following Turn.
Game 2 started with Wasteland, Mox, Chalice 1 which resolved. he never played another spell that game.
Game 3 i dropped T1 Exploration Mox Land #2 Loam for Fetch and Maze. Drew Wasteland -> Waste, fetch, Loam, Thalia, that game was over pretty fast when he had 2 Wastelands to my Thalia/Maze board and had to drop Needle on Wasteland not to get blown out. I transmuted Tolaria West into Ghostquarter and went on.
2 : 1 : 1
R5 Smallpox
Well nothing special happened, he messed up, i messed up, i won with a bit of luck because he did not see the small window which would have killed me in retrospect.
3 : 1 : 1 7th
Quarters against UWR Blade
G1 Lands did what Lands does to Blade.
G2 Lands did what Lands does to Blade. I resolved an early Chalice 2 with Crucbile on board with Waste and Quarter in Grave.
Played against an Omniscience/Show&Tell deck this week. Do we have any chance against this?
G1 He just T2 Show & Tell for omniscience, combo kill me
G2 I drew Waste, Thalia and chalice on 1, He managed to burning wish for pyroclasm, killing my thalia, show and telled for omniscience/Griselbrand and combo killed me again..
I had 0 chances..
What is the match plan against this deck?
Trinisphere out of the board is awesome against them. Oblivion Ring handles all of their stuff as well.
chalice for 2 is also what you want vs omni.
and above poster is correct, that Trinisphere(or any sphere effect) is very good here. Its a considerably worse matchup than when they used to just squeeze som dude into play, but its not completly lost.
Of course Chalice 2, i did not think about mentioning this explicitely ;)
Trinisphere makes them skip the turn after the Show and Tell. Try to get Rishadan Ports to hinder them from casting anything relevant, while trying to cripple their mana further. You can't effectively race them so you should try to get down Thalia or Chalice 2 fast, while holding Trinisphere in hand.
As mentioned before you could try Oblivion Rings, as they handle every single threat dropped off a Show and Tell without giving them a window to play a second Omniscience.
The best thing they can do is draw 7 (14) off Griselbrand.
Could this new set have any more graveyard hate? Makes me wanna run 2 explosives main board. Thoughts?
[SIZE="1"][I]Team [Insert a name here - Akron?] - [very big point with adverbs modifying adjectives and other adverbs]
I was thinking that too. Also, I think a valid strategy might be just conceding game one rapidly to hate and crushing games 2 and 3 with bob/dark tutelage if maverick and similar decks do become over-saturated with graveyard hate.
Maverick won't run Rest in Peace cause it hits their KoTRs. But they might play 1 Dryad Militant as a zenith target.
With each new block there are more and more cards that hit Lands so much...
Nothing is true, everything is permitted...
Militant can be removed at least where as RIP you will need to have Enchant hate in the board if it gets popular, but the only decks that want RIP are decks that don't utilize their own GY like Death And Taxes and Enchantress
Currently Playing:
Dredge, The Rock, Lands, Spiral Tide, Affinity
SCG Atlanta Results (even the bad ones).... Here we go!
R1 - UW Blade - 1-2
I win G1, he races G2, and Game 3 He has Geist of Saint Traft, with a Jitte, and he extracted my LftL, and has just enough to kill me Turn 4 of turns. Even if I had Glacial Chasm, he still top decks the Wasteland.
R2 - Maverick - 2-0
I Ravens Crime him, discards a land, play a Diamond, Pass, he plays Savannah, MoRuins, and I waste lock him until I make him discard his hand. Ghost Quarter Also Helped. I land Lock/Cursed Totem him G2, and when he concedes, he shows me the Harmonic in his hand.
R3 - Merfolk - 1-2
I resolve Bridge G1, and he scoops. He races me with the lords G2, and G3, he has Catcher, 2 SilverGill, 2 LoA, 2 Rejeerey, Master, and Coralhelm out, with like... 6 lands. I EoT Intuition for Bridge, Chasm, and Ruins. I get back the Lands, play both lands, and pass. He has 0 cards in hand, and draws the Wasteland. Must be nice....
R4 - UB Death Shadow - 1-1-1
I win G1 very slowly, and then he just has Jace G2. Not Realizing he as at 6, I fear the Jace, and start swinging at it. when I realized 2 hits would kill him, I swung him down to 3, and he flashed in Clique and had just enough to finish me off.... Punted. Game 3 it comes down to turns, he's at 3. He has Clique, Jace, Death Shadow X 2, and a Snapcaster. I have 6 lands in play. Turn one, I activate TarPit, and say "Well here is to hoping you don't have the Dismember..." he shows me dismember, and then I say, OK, I will tap Tarpit for a mana, and tap the other 2 and played E Bridge. Then we drew. Jerk move on my part, but A Draw is a lot better than a loss, If I can manage to Day 2.
Sadly to say, I didnt Day 2.... lol. I went 2-2 in standard. I know this isn't a standard Forum, but I do want to mention this... So My opponent has 1 Card in hand, UR land, Island, Mountain He has Koth on the Board. I have Gideon, and Pondered the previous turn. I Draw, Play land 7, and Play Karn Liberated. He looks at his hand, and is like, well..... Thought Scour Myself, mills 2 lands, and draws a Mana Leak.... and to make matters worse, I forget to swing at his Koth because of the Tilt Ratio, and He top decks Karn the next turn.... fml, right? anyways.
Better luck next time, right? I still have another invite... we will see where they have the first one next year...
Win a Box (getting Desperate here...)
R1 - UW Stoneblade 2-1
I win game one fairly easily with Ravens Crime and locing him out. He beats me G2 with Extraction, and the beats. Game 3 goes on for like over an hour. He Extracts Loam turn 5. He swords all my Bobs, and I have Mazes for DAYS!. Waste hit a tundra, and I Have enough Ports to handle the basics. He ends up getting 4 white sources, with StP in hand, and He Plays a Jace. I have to Port his White on Upkeep, then porth them again in my main phase, and swing at Jace, so Jace is netting 1 counter every 2 turns. I Have Ruins out, and toward the end of the game, I Draw Crucible, and Own his White sources, and start beating his Land Base down while killing Jace. He began to fail to find, and I knew I had the game. there was a guy who was like, "I thought you were going to scoop after turn 10"... and I responded by "I thought you were going to stop watching on turn 11..." it went like 40 turns.. Miserable...
R2 - RUG Delver - 2-0
"I thought you were going to scoop after turn 10" Guy was my opponent. and He was playing RUG Delver. Needless to say, after seeing everything my deck had to offer, He did not stand a Chance. People think they know how to play against the deck, until they sit across from you... all that confidence and credibility just goes right out the window.
R3 - He is playing Junk. He has Loam in the MB, and a Bog.... we split the stupid Box of M13.... with is was Ravnica....
I understand everyone has their own opinions about lands. I did the Thalia Tricks, and it has only panned out for me once. I go Back to the Basics, with minor Changes to the SB -
4 Chalice
4 Dark Confidant
2 Krosan Grip
1 Explosives
1 E Bridge
2 Trinisphere
1 Cursed Totem
Legacy Challenge
R1 - OmniTell - 2-1
He destroys me Game 1 with Burning for living for Emrakul. Go Figure. Game 2 I Play T1 Confidant, with Trinisphere in Hand, and I also have 2 Ports and a Waste and a Loam. I Kill him with 2 Bobs, while Porting and Wasting his lands. Game 3 I get a Confidant out, and then I start drawing crazy cards. I start the game with a Trinisphere in hand. I Dredge Loam, Reveal a Trinisphere, and then I Academy Ruins it, then I Try and Play it, tapping my ports. he has 7 cards in hand. He is like, well, can't have that resolving, FoW's it, he Taps 3, Slams Show and Tell, and I reveal Trinisphere to the Omniscience. then I continue to Ghose quarter his basics away, and he dies...
R2 - Kobold Beast Master Glimpse Cheerios Deck - 2-0
Tabernacle is a real card.... and apparently so is Wasteland... Game 2 he drops guys, I chalice for both 0 and 1, and then he drops Beast master's Ascension on turn 3, and I have Explosives in hand...
R3 - Ad Nauseum - 2-1
He kills me G1 through 5 ravens Crimes, and then Game 2, I mull to 4. Keep Crime, Chasm, Chalice, Sphere. Stick Chalice for 0, and I proceed to draw a Bob, which draws me more land, which allows me to cast Trinisphere. He in responses Taps 5 Mana, and casts Ad Nauseum... Not sure why, because he can still cast it after Trinisphere resolves.... idk. Game 3 I Went t1 Bob, he preordained, and then I revealed 3Sphere, and he had no way to deal with it in his sideboard. Not sure why he didnt.. but Luck sacking 3 Combo Deks makes a lands player feel pretty good.
R4 - UWR Miracles
His first time with the deck. We play Game 1, and he messes up like idk, 8 or 9 times, and doesn't kill me... I think I'm at 1 for the longest time... and Just cant find Zuran Orb. He starts doing the Jace Dance, but no Tolaria wests. Im doing the Jace Dance from above, except I'm swinging at him, because I have Academy Ruins out. We go to Turns, and ON turn 5 of turns, I ports the rest of his White Sources, and Swing. He extends his hand, and says, "There is nothing I can do! All I have in my hand is there 4 Swords to Plowshares, and I Can't Gain like with My Germ because of Maze of Ith......" and when we shake hands, I thank him for not StP'ing any of his 3 Guys.... lol
Thank the lord for the new legacy community, right?
So Down to Business - Legacy Open
R1 - Merfolk - 2-1
He wins game 1 with a Wasteland on Chasm. But this guy actually already had it.
+4 Bob +1 EE +1 Bridge
-3 Intuition -2 Mamabond -1 Raven's Crime
I Win Game 2 with E Bridge lock and 15 minutes to Go Scoop
He has the Pressure, and 2 LoA in play, and I transmute TWest, and say, "I am going to get and play Tabernacle. He picks it up and reads it, then puts it back down, I say Go, and this guy draws his card. Then He calls a judge, and says, I never annouced playing the land, and it should be in my hand, and I remind everybody there that, "Lands does not pass turns without playing lands.... then his defense is that it's not too late to go back. I tell him there is no going Back, and I Kill him with Tarpit on Turn 1 of Turns.
1-0
R2 - Team Italia - 0-2
He comes on strong, and I Draw the Exploration I need to Chasm Lock him out of the Game. I am at 3 though, so I Need to be careful. I begin to strategize a plan to get the Orb next turn, and just get out of the deep water, and failed to port the lands i had been locking down, and he draws land 3 and Vindicates my Chasm... tilt.
+4 Chalice +1 EE +1 E Bridge +2 Grip
-3 Intuit -3 Crimes -2 Bond
Game 2 I look at a good hand, with no mazes, but a mox, and I mulligan. then I draw a hand with 1 lands, and Mulligan. then I draw a 5 card hand, which was <= to my original 7. I Play a land, he takes my Chalice, and I just get curb stomped....
1-1
(Smoked like 4 cigarettes after that one... pretty flustered)
R3 Burn - 2-1
Went in blind with an Intuition, Orb, Manabond Mox, 3 Lands. Pretty sweet, right? lol
+4 Chalice +1 EE +1 Cursed Totem -3 Crimes, -1 Thicket, -1 Karakas -1 Intuition
Cursed Totem, really? Shuts down Vexing Shusher.... anyways, I keep a shaky hand, and after Chalicing for 1 and 2, He draws the Fireblast the turn before I kill him.
G3 - Chalice for 1 Turn 2 is good. I have Orb in my opener. I drop a Manabond, but don't go crazy yet. I Play an EE for 3, then go bonkers. I survived a 32 (16) Damage Price of Progress.. lol. He draws a vortex, but it is way too late, and I have the EE. GG sir.
2-1
R4 - RUG Delver - 2-0
I Waste-lock him out of the game. and he scoops.
+4 Chalice +1 EE +1 E Bridge +2 Krosan Grip
-3 Crime -3 Intuition -2 Manabond
Then the inexperience against the deck and the lack of knowledge, he did not SB in Artifact hate, and I won with Chalice and Bridge.
3-1
R5 - UR Painter - 1-2
He kills me turn 3 Game 1, then we get a deck-check. Takes forever.
+4 Chalice +4 Confidant +2 Krosan Grip +2 Trinisphere +1 Cursed Totem
-3 Intuition -2 Manabond -3 Ravens Crime -1 Glacial Chasm -1 Zuran Orb - 1 Thicket -2 Maze of Ith
I win G2 with Confidant and Trinisphere. Very Grind Game, but Ports got there.
Game 3 - Mox, Ruins, Trinisphere, Port, Port, Waste, Loam. I Keep. He mulls to 6. Keeps, I think, hey, that's good he Mulligan's. He opens up with Tomb, Grindstone, Top, pass... Well, now the plan is flawed to play 3Sphere Turn 2, I change plans. I draw a Bob. Play Diamond, and Waste the Tomb. 3 Cards in hand, he draws. He goes City of Traitors, Painter Servant, LED, Kill you. My luck from the invitational had come back...
3-2
R6 - Lands - 1-0-1
I could probably write up a huge explanation of the 2 matches, but Ill sum it up. I had Exploration G1, and he did not.
+4 Confidant +1 EE +2 Krosan Grip -3 Maze of Ith -1 Tabernacle -1 Karakas
Then on Game 2, he had Exploration, I had Manabond (which is better in the Mirror). and then he draws Crucible (which is even more insane in the Mirror). the game goes to time, he concedes the match, and we get to talking about the deck, and he loves it, and asks questions, and I Tol him about the site, so he may be another person to teach and learn from. I have learn from playing the Mirror how the games go. Exploration<Manabond<Crucible+Exploration<Crucible+Bog+Zuran Orb.
4-2
R7 - UR Delver - 2-0
This Guy gets me to 1, and I stabilize with Orb and Chasm. He tilted out.
+4 Chalice +1 E Bridge -2 Raven's Crimes -2 Manabond
He Spikes me, I play land. He deals me 4 more, takes me to 11. I play Chalice for 1. He doesn't cast another spell for like.... 9 turns. He has tons of lands. I have Orb online, and Chasm at my disposal, but I just end up getting Chalice for 2, then Chalice for 6, and he nearly quit playing Magic...
5-2
R8 - Junk - 2-0
He lead with a Mom, and I wasted his land, and then I completely shut him out of mana, with a Tabernacle.
+1 Cursed Totem +4 Confidant +1 Bridge +1 EE
-3 Raven's Crime - 2 Manabond -2 Intuition
He mulligan's to 5, and its unfortunate for him, so the match was very one sided. He lead with a Hierarch, played a Stoneforge, then got Batterskull into play, but the was out of cards, and I had loam, Explosives, Maze, Tabernacle.
6-2
R9 - Merfolk - 2-0
He knows what I'm playing, but I'm going in blind. He Mulls to 5, and takes me to 3 before I Ravens Crime him to Death, and recur Explosives.
-2 Manabond -3 Intuition -1 Raven's Crime +4 Dark Confidant +1 Engineered Explosives +1 Ensnaring Bridge
I Explosives his Vial away when it is at 1. He mulls to 6 this game. Started playing Folk, and I got Academy Ruins, Chasm, and a Maze or 2 to only fall to 13 before resolving Ensnaring Bridge.
Finished the Day at 7-2, 20th place (They Mentioned a lot of ppl below 16th place, but not me - ah well, guess I haven't kissed enough star city ass yet :/). So Overall I got $100 cash, $50 SCG Credit (which is like $17.85 in real money), and 18 packs of M13. Definitely not worth driving 12 hours to Atlanta (we did Carpool), but I met a lot of great people, and we had a blast. Hope to see some of you in Cincinnati! Let me know if you have any questions.
[SIZE="1"][I]Team [Insert a name here - Akron?] - [very big point with adverbs modifying adjectives and other adverbs]
Made my day!R2 - RUG Delver - 2-0
"I thought you were going to scoop after turn 10" Guy was my opponent. and He was playing RUG Delver. Needless to say, after seeing everything my deck had to offer, He did not stand a Chance. People think they know how to play against the deck, until they sit across from you... all that confidence and credibility just goes right out the window.
Thank you for your report. Do you think after the release of Rest in Peace Lands will loose its power?
Nothing is true, everything is permitted...
Definitely not. White deck that don't use their graveyard as well are not legion. Maverick and The Rock got KotR. D&T and Enchantress (and it kicks Replenish) are underplayed . But Deadguy will play it.
Last edited by Anen; 09-24-2012 at 05:36 PM.
Well, a Goblins player had Angels of Despair in his sideboard just for that matchup, but if you want a card that has uses outside of just that, and that you can potentially hardcast, there is good ol' Oblivion Ring.
If Rest in Peace catches on, or if for some reason Countertop is bothersome, you could always play Seal of Cleansing or Aura of Silence (Double white may be troublesome) with the Enlightened Tutor package. Oblivion Ring is good as well and as stated before useful against the Show/Science deck.
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