All B/R update speculation.

[bruizar]

That's a pretty poor argument.



This is an interesting approach, but in the meantime Delver.decks appeared, Snapcaster was printed, and Goblin and other tribal decks got Cavern of Souls. Goblin and Combo Elves can regularly set up for turn 3 win. I say let's unban it and let's wait for meta to adapt to it; its impact and related strategies would probably be absorbed, at least partially, by the other archetypes.

Survival if broken because it can tutor for cards that can protect Survival and invalidate strategies. (Needle on Survival? In response, G, pitch creature for Harmonic Sliver, play harmonic sliver)

[Hanni]

@Tinker: Main offenders will be Sundering Titan, Spine of Ish-Sah, Myr Battlesphere, Possessed Portal, Platinum Emporium, Steel Hellkite

You forgot Blightsteel Colossus. Inkwell Leviathan is a notable mention since it also pitches to FoW, although Titan is often better in the matchups where you'd want Inkwell.

[Jenni]

You forgot Blightsteel Colossus. Inkwell Leviathan is a notable mention since it also pitches to FoW, although Titan is often better in the matchups where you'd want Inkwell.

Blightsteel is the "go to" bot in vintage Tinker-bot decks, since it's a one-hit kill. In legacy, with swords being a real thing, inkwell leviathan is probably better against an unknown deck, since it's a lot harder to answer and against most of the best decks it's still unblockable. Against non-white blightsteel is better, but considering how rampant tinker would be if unbanned, it's probably safe to assume Swords would become pretty popular to prevent the auto-win, along with steel sabotage, hurkyl's recall, etc.

[Hanni]

There's still plenty of matchups that wouldn't run Swords to Plowshares, like other combo decks. Inkwell is a 3 turn clock, where Blightsteel is a 1 turn clock. Blighsteel would still be a good Tinker target for the faster clock.

[FieryBalrog]

Tinker: This is the most controversial one so I won't waste my time explaining why I feel this card is on the same level as Show and Tell.

Why, because the idea is completely stupid and can't really be defended?

[joemauer]

Why, because the idea is completely stupid and can't really be defended?

Actually because the argument has already been done before, on this very thread.

[Lemnear]

When is the next update? The day Gatecrash becomes legal or does the new B&R-List management the DCI announced start with 2013?

[dunk]

Going forward, Banned and Restricted updates will by synchronized with set releases. For each set, starting with Gatecrash, the announcement will be the Monday after the Prerelease, and the effective date will be the same as the release date of the set.

So I guess the next announcement will be Monday after the Guildcrash Prerelease.

[Vacrix]

Tinker can't grab anything nearly as dangerous as Emrakul/Jizz/Prog/Omni.. but its closer to a one card combo than Show and Tell. The deck that would play Tinker could play a higher permission density because it wouldn't need to play multiple copies of creatures for Show and Tell. So Tinker saves the deck quite a bit of space while also wanting cards like Mox Opal, Seat of Synod, Ancient Tomb.. for increased acceleration. Also, Tinker has the advantage of finding a utility artifact for locking out storm combo and finding a fast answer to graveyard centric strategies.. making the sideboard toolbox far more deadly than anything we'd encounter first Omni-tell.

[bruizar]

tinker.dec would probably also run show and tell.

[Vacrix]

tinker.dec would probably also run show and tell.

I was really referring to having a choice of one or the other in the format but forgot to mention it. I think I'd prefer a format with Show and Tell to a format with Tinker.

Then again, Show and Tell isn't something I think should be legal either. If there's something people don't like more than losing to a combo deck before they actually get to play magic, its losing to a brainless combo deck. I think people prefer losing because they were out played than because they're playing against overpowered cards. In general, permission vs. storm combo is a much more interesting match than SnT vs. Karakas.

[RaZe]

tinker.dec would probably also run show and tell.

I dont think it would be the case. They work in the opposite ways. SnT wants their card in hand. Tinkr on the other hand wants it in the library.

And in my opinion that Tolarian Academy would sooner be unbanned before Tinker.

[bruizar]

I dont think it would be the case. They work in the opposite ways. SnT wants their card in hand. Tinkr on the other hand wants it in the library.

And in my opinion that Tolarian Academy would sooner be unbanned before Tinker.

Guess what happens when your Tinker target ends up in your hand?

Also, Show and Tell was first used in Oath.dec. as a way to cheat out a fatty when it cluttered your hand / confronted with oath hate. That's exactly how I expect SnT would be used alongside tinker.

What's better than 4 SnT's? 4 SnTs and 4 Tinkers.

[TsumiBand]

Guess what happens when your Tinker target ends up in your hand?

Also, Show and Tell was first used in Oath.dec. as a way to cheat out a fatty when it cluttered your hand / confronted with oath hate. That's exactly how I expect SnT would be used alongside tinker.

What's better than 4 SnT's? 4 SnTs and 4 Tinkers.

Ugh, yeah exactly. Tinker would beat the living fuck out of Legacy. If people think Delver is stupid for being almost as much an auto-include, when Tinker is in the right deck it is a flat-out 1-card combo. People used to piss and moan about Reanimator durping out an Iona on first turn. That takes like 4 cards. Don't ever want Tinker to be legal in Legacy.

[Koby]

What's better than 4 SnT's? 4 SnTs and 4 Tinkers.

3 SnT 3 Tinker and 4 Burning Wish.

WINNING

[Vacrix]

Guess what happens when your Tinker target ends up in your hand?

You play Brainstorm.

[Koby]

I'm liking this deck already:

4 Burning Wish
3 Tinker
3 Show n Tell
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

who cares what the other 42 cards are.

[TeenieBopper]

Every now and then I check out this thread to remind myself how batshit fuckin' crazy some legacy players are.

Tinker? Seriously? That's fuckin' cray.

[Mr. Safety]

Every now and then I check out this thread to remind myself how batshit fuckin' crazy some legacy players are.

Tinker? Seriously? That's fuckin' crazy.

QFT

Tinker? Seriously? That's fuckin' crazy.

[Amon Amarth]

You only need to look at the decks lists from PT: New Orleans to really get a handle on what Tinker would do to this format. I'm all for discussion of unbanning any card on the list as long as there is a compelling argument accompanying it. I've never seen one for Tinker and I doubt one even exists.