Ichorids have a small tombstone besides their Names, as have Judgement Therapies. Dread Returns have none, whyever... I never care about this tbh, because my deck is completely BB germanized. =DOriginally Posted by slave
Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells
:16:- (See, now Erratic Explosion's a deck)
Legendary Creature - Horror
Haste, Hexproof, Double Strike, Trample
Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells is indestructible.
Permanents you control can't be sacrificed or copied.
Whenever Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells attacks, defending player gets liver cancer (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)
13/13
Just a question;
Trinisphere
Is there ANYTHING (other than crossing fingers) we can possibly do about this card a certain "spoilt-little-rich-kid" would most likely trade for?
Well, maybe yours are.
Trinisphere is relatively easy to beat. You just generate a massive beat-down with all of your recurring threats and multiple zombies turn in and turn out. Honestly it's the least of your worries.
I understand what you're saying;
But against decks like "Dragon Stompy", "Faerie Stompy" etc., that not only run Trinisphere, but a whole host a creatures to pummel us fairly quickly (and evasively in Faerie's case) can we rely on that plan working mre often than not?
Yes. I absolutely and wholeheartedly promise. Here's a random scenario we'll look at assuming your opponent got some kind of nut draw with our lone Street Wraith:
Opp-T1: Ancient Tomb, Exile->Simian Spirit Guide, Seething Song (-2/18), Rakdos Pit Dragon, Go. (Opp. Hand=3)
You-T1: Draw, Cleanup->Troll, Go. (Our Hand=7)
Opp-T2: Draw, Mountain, Trinisphere (-2/16), Attack (-3/17), Go. (Opp. Hand=2)
You (Opp-T2): Cycle Street Wraith (-2/15)->Dredge 6 [Phantasmagorian, Narcomoeba, Ichorid, Bridge, X and Y], Narcomoeba->Play, Activate Phantasmagorian Holding Priority [Nether Shadow, Ichorid, Troll, Golgari Thug, Phantasmagorian, Griselbrand], Activated Ability Resolves, Go. (Our Hand=2)
You-T2: Recur Threats->Dredge More->Smash Face->Make Tokens, Go. (Our Hand=Negligible)
Seriously. You'll just chump out their "threats" (Dragon being really the only one) and beat them down mercilessly over the course of a turn or two.
That scenario just made me giddy :) -- bought 4 Nether Shadow's today! Getting closer to finishing this ultra inexpensive deck. Thanks Hollywood!
No worries.
The deck takes a tremendous amount of playing time to master though, folks. You really need to strap in for the long haul if you expect to do well with the deck regularly. You can catch on to intricacies you never thought you'd see during an in-game match that can completely change the dynamic of an entire round.
Some people catch on quick, but playing and sideboarding correctly in the middle of a competitive REL is a lot different than gold-fishing on MWS.
LOL.
I can vouch for this statement!
It;s taken me quite a while to pick up on some of the small interactions of the deck, that can enable a turn 2 win.
Is there a list of tricks and intricacies anywhere? I know the dredge primer covers, among other things, stacking Bridge from Below and grave-troll counting itself.
- Some of the useful stuff to know for manaless (some overlap with regular dredge here) off the top of my head is:
- playing a land doesn't pass priority. This means that if you play a dryad arbor, you retain priority, and get an opportunity to cast Cabal Therapy or Dread Return before the opponent can remove any of your creatures (some players will try and keep you below 3 creatures to prevent DR.)
- when cards go to the graveyard simultaneously, their owner gets to choose the order. This applies when dredging instead of drawing a card, because the cards are all going to the graveyard at the same time.
- Golgari Grave-Troll counts itself as a creature in the graveyard when it's being Dread Returned into play.
- you can use phantasmagorian in response to its own ability to discard multiples of three cards - but make sure you make it clear you're not passing priority after the first activation. Phantasmagorian will be returned to your hand after the first activation resolves.)
- having one phantasmagorian in the graveyard and one in hand allows you to effectively discard two cards at a time (as long as you have >=3 cards in hand to start with.) This can be useful for getting your highest dredge-count dredgers back in the graveyard.
- once you go "all in" with phantasmagorian, you can't DDD any more, so think carefully about what cards you keep in your hand. Your opponent also gets to see most of the cards you have. Sometimes it's worth keeping information from the opponent until the last possible moment.
- with Bridges in the graveyard, Therapy or Contagion/Shoal on one of your own creatures can allow you to up your creature count
- Deathrite Shaman can't remove Bridge from Below because it's an enchantment
- don't get stuck on tunnel vision with Dread Return. All of the creatures in the deck could be a worthwhile target under the right circumstances. Stinkweed Imp can block and kill problematic attackers. Street Wraith has swampwalk. Phantasmagorian is 6/6. Golgari Thug can put Narcomoeba back on top of the library. Shambling Shell can give a creature +1/+1, sacrificing itself in the process. Sometimes the zombies you get from Bridge matter more than the actual DR target.
- if you have a therapy and nether shadow and ichorid to choose between to sacrifice, think carefully about which you want to sacrifice. Ichorid is going to die anyway, so you might want to sacrifice that. On the other hand, you might want to sacrifice Nether Shadow to make sure the Ichorid goes on top of it and you get it back earlier - this line might make sense if your opponent might cast a card like Terminus on their turn. You might also want Nether Shadow in the graveyard to sacrifice to get Ichorid back next turn, if the difference in power matters.
- just because there's a therapy in your graveyard doesn't mean you have to use it. Sometimes it's better to wait until you have multiple Bridges, or a second therapy to get more value. Other times, it's more important to try and disrupt your opponent, since they might win before you get a chance to get that extra value.
- manaless dredge can switch from defensive to aggressive very quickly - you can go from chumping with 'moebas and shadows to attacking with a bunch of ichorids and zombies - or perhaps just outright killing the opponent with Flayer. Knowing when to block, when to race, and when to switch are important parts of playing the deck
Wasn't aware this was a legal play - I thought this was a replacement effect, similar to cycling, so it doesn't use the stack?
So even though you only have 1 phants in the GY, you could discard 6 (non-phants) cards? Phoar!!!
Golgari Grave-Troll counting itself was another one I thought a bit funny when I first learnt it a while back, seems perfectly normal when you think about it, but it's not obvious.
The part you're saying about switching between defence to all-out aggression is very true, I like how this deck can become inevitable with all it's creature threats.
yes, and also im not always relying on grisel's (Hyper combo Finish.... KO!) thing. if he shows up in the yard then thats it.. if not... then its fine too unless im facing a combo deck like ANT, Belcher, TES, SnT etc.. wherein giving your opponent a turn might be crucial..
aside from grisel you can also bring 2 flayer in the field shooting 15-20 or more damage on the same turn *DR the first flayer shooting 4 on opponent (16 life remaining), bring the 2nd flayer so that makes about 2 "floating 4 damage" shoot the 1st 4 damage on the 1st flayer the other 4 damage to opponent (14life remaining). 1st flayer dies then undying will trigger once it hits the field it will give you "2 floating 5 damage", shoot the 1st 5 damage to the 2nd flayer, then shoot the 2nd 5 damage to opponent (9 life remaining). when 2nd flayer dies and returned to play via undying... you will have another set of "2 floating 5 damages" this time shoot it in your opponents face*
i bet most of our dredge brothers here knows this trick
its working for me. i feel like my deck isnt complete without bloodghast. btw it helped me win last tournament against junk who got darkconfidant, 2 deathrite shaman and 1 worship in the field. i dredge dakmor salvage then play it bringing 3 bloodghast from yard to play w/ a flayer in the field shooting those creatures for the win.
but then again its really up to you what build you're comfortable with.
Sorry for shocking you but cycling actually uses the stack and even can be Stifled because it's a non-mana activated ability just like Phantasmagorian's one. Replacement effects are something absolutely different, e.g. dredge is one of them.Wasn't aware this was a legal play - I thought this was a replacement effect, similar to cycling, so it doesn't use the stack?
Btw one of the main "tricks" is to cycle Street Wraith in resp to Phantasmagorian's ability, replace draw via dredge on cycling resolution and then to activate Phantasmagorian again while first ability is still in the stack.
What is the use of this trick ? I do not get it
Here's the trick:
1. You activate Phantasmagorian by discarding three cards.
2. Hold priority and activate Street Wraith. Phantasmagorian's ability is still on the stack, as it goes back to your hand on resolution.
3. Dredge with the cycled Wraith.
4. Activate the Phantasmagorian again, discarding three cards.
5. Phantasmagorian's activated ability resolves, which is to say it goes back to your hand.
The use of this trick is to allow you to dump more cards into your graveyard, potentially stacking cards for Shadow, feeding cards to Ichorid and putting the best dregders into your graveyard so you can dredge deeper the following turn. It's actually one of the deck's relatively common power-plays.
Does that work? Assuming you do it on your turn, starting with 8 cards, discard 6 down to 2 cards, one of which is wraith. Then discard wraith, and add a dredger to you hand, you still only have 2 cards when Phantasmagorian resolves. Unless my math is incorrect.
Edit: Actually you're right, I was assuming activate twice rather than activate-cycle-activate.
Well, I don't know why you would do it on your turn because you want to get as many cards into your graveyard as soon as possible.
You're not discarding Street Wraith; you're activating it. There is a huge functional difference. You do it during your opponents' turns so you can get creatures triggering into play during your upkeep and the best dredgers into your graveyard to dig deeper. If you do it during your turn, you won't get any Nether Shadows or Ichorids into play.
Yeah, I meant cycle. "discard" was just to account for it leaving the hand. But I misread the order you were doing things in, thinking you were attempting to dump 9 cards off of it.
Maybe:
-DR Flayer (4 to opponent)
-Sacrifice Flayer and other 2 to DR another Flayer (undying resolves doing 5 to opponent)
-2nd Flayer enters play (8 on opponent)
-Sac Flayer for Therapy, undying resolves, and do 10 damage to opponent. That's a total of 27 dmg :) We always have at least one therapy!
This is useful too when you have wraith+phantasmagorian and another card you don't want do discard (arbor/contagion/shoal/silence), so you can discard the dredger for phantasmagorian twice instead of the desired card.
Absolutely. This is a great way to bring a black card back to your hand (Phantasmagorian) which can be pitched to Contagion and Sickening Shoal (which can give a creature -7/-7, certainly enough to kill it).
Ok, that actually made some sense. I could see doing that. Also, this deck seems like it's way more important to make clear when you are NOT passing priority. The old days of simply playing the game and using a general understanding of when priority is passed will not work with this deck.
Now here's an issue I've run into that I could use some help on: Say you have dumped a Phantasmagorian in your yard during your end step and passed turn. During your oppnent's end step you activate Phantasmagorian pitching 3 cards, let's say Nether Shadow, Golgari Grave-Troll and Bridge From Below and stacked them in that order. Your opponent responds by Surgical Extractioning your Golgari Grave-Troll. In response, you cycle Street Wraith and use the draw to activate a dredge on the Troll, which returns the Troll to your hand and removes his Extraction target. If you dredge into another Troll does his Extraction still work on the new Troll in the yard? Or is it countered since it is not the exact same Troll that was targeted?
Currently Playing:
Dredge / Hive Mind / Belcher / Sneak-Show
HayWire Motorsports - Tacoma, Washington
GoFundMe
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
