[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[Arianrhod]

I'll just post my skype here, i can always be contacted and have spare time most evenings for some testing:

Cruzaxx

or just

Michel Theissen

Located in Landgraaf, Netherlands. Should find me then :)

Have to say tho, i prefer Cockatrice over MWS :P

Cockatrice has the same problem. The metagame is a complete shitstorm. No one plays combo, which means Nic Fit is pretty good, but there are also a ton of random decks that are just a waste of time to play against.

I've spent a lot of time on Cockatrice, but I don't grind with randoms -- I have a ventrilo server that myself and my locals (and friends not so local) use for Magic and other various games, so whenever we want to do testing we hop on there and fire up a private room. I would much, MUCH rather test in real life, but Central PA isn't exactly a conducive location for getting together....most of us are 30-45 minutes from each other.

I finally broke down a few months ago and just completely gave up on Cockatrice. I still hop on every now and again, but it's pretty uncommon. I can't get over the randomization matrices. Once, a friend was playing Dredge, and his 4 Bridges were the last 4 cards in his deck. I find it almost impossible to land even an "average" opening hand -- they're all borderline untenable and I usually end up cycling through 4-5 opening hands of 7 before I find something that qualifies as average, per my expectations from real life.

I mean, MWS and Cockatrice are pretty much what we're got to work with for when there isn't an event, which is pretty miserable, but they do lend themselves to SOME good, I guess. Some data, even flawed, is better than nothing. Far and away my favorite form of testing, though, is to proxy a deck up and take it with me to a non-local event, and then grind between rounds with friends. That way you get in games against people whose playstyles you don't have completely memorized, against a wider variety of decks, with real physical cards that actually fucking shuffle the way they should.

/Impromptu rage session

[Star|Scream]

I've spent a lot of time on Cockatrice, but I don't grind with randoms -- I have a ventrilo server that myself and my locals (and friends not so local) use for Magic and other various games, so whenever we want to do testing we hop on there and fire up a private room. I would much, MUCH rather test in real life, but Central PA isn't exactly a conducive location for getting together....most of us are 30-45 minutes from each other.

I finally broke down a few months ago and just completely gave up on Cockatrice. I still hop on every now and again, but it's pretty uncommon. I can't get over the randomization matrices. Once, a friend was playing Dredge, and his 4 Bridges were the last 4 cards in his deck. I find it almost impossible to land even an "average" opening hand -- they're all borderline untenable and I usually end up cycling through 4-5 opening hands of 7 before I find something that qualifies as average, per my expectations from real life.

I mean, MWS and Cockatrice are pretty much what we're got to work with for when there isn't an event, which is pretty miserable, but they do lend themselves to SOME good, I guess. Some data, even flawed, is better than nothing. Far and away my favorite form of testing, though, is to proxy a deck up and take it with me to a non-local event, and then grind between rounds with friends. That way you get in games against people whose playstyles you don't have completely memorized, against a wider variety of decks, with real physical cards that actually fucking shuffle the way they should.

/Impromptu rage session

It's really difficult for me because the only legacy events are monthly and are an hour away. They also only have 15-20 players. I think I should just give up on this format!

[Siiig]

I've found the same thing with cockatrice. The hands and draws just don't feel right compared to what I experience in the actual game.

I'm blessed with having quite a few real players not far from me. And there's generally more than one at each destination.

[Viridia]

I'd invite people to come over here, but i don't think any of you live in the Netherlands/Belgium :P

[Arianrhod]

It's really difficult for me because the only legacy events are monthly and are an hour away. They also only have 15-20 players. I think I should just give up on this format!

No don't =(

Where are you at on the East Coast (big city nearness, state, whatever...don't need a street address or some shit)?

Unrelatedly, have you considered trying MODO? Obviously the whole having to get things you already own rankles (reasons I haven't done it....I have a very, -very- nice collection and I have no intention of rebuying all of that), but Legacy dailies are firing fairly regularly and you should be able to hop in 2-man queues whenever you want, from what I've seen of pros streaming. Considering that they run PTQs and other high-profile events on MODO, I'm assuming that the randomization matrix is somewhat more realistic, as well.

[Ayotte]

Is there actually data to evidence Cockatrice's shuffler being bad? I have a hard time believing any complaints about RNGs because it always reeks of confirmation bias and anecdotal evidence.

[nottz]

I play on Cockatrice and I gotta say that the shuffler is terrible. It never gives you average hands, at all.

[Star|Scream]

No don't =(

Where are you at on the East Coast (big city nearness, state, whatever...don't need a street address or some shit)?

Unrelatedly, have you considered trying MODO? Obviously the whole having to get things you already own rankles (reasons I haven't done it....I have a very, -very- nice collection and I have no intention of rebuying all of that), but Legacy dailies are firing fairly regularly and you should be able to hop in 2-man queues whenever you want, from what I've seen of pros streaming. Considering that they run PTQs and other high-profile events on MODO, I'm assuming that the randomization matrix is somewhat more realistic, as well.

I'm outside of Pittsburgh. Only one local store has any legacy. They have tried to host tournaments at other ones but got very low attendance. The closest store to me is only 10 minutes away but is super casual. There's only one other dude with any duals at all.

[Arianrhod]

I'm outside of Pittsburgh. Only one local store has any legacy. They have tried to host tournaments at other ones but got very low attendance. The closest store to me is only 10 minutes away but is super casual. There's only one other dude with any duals at all.

Woah...slow down there. I have contacts in Pittsburgh. I KNOW there is a flourishing legacy scene there, for a fact. I'll track down details for you.

[TheArchitect]

Is there actually data to evidence Cockatrice's shuffler being bad? I have a hard time believing any complaints about RNGs because it always reeks of confirmation bias and anecdotal evidence.

There's nothing wrong with the RNG shuffler, people are just used to real life magic where we never actually truly randomize our decks like we are supposed to. We are biased shufflers and consciously, or unconsciously, try to separate similar cards and space lands evenly apart since because we think that is what random is supposed to look like. RNGs dont do that so rare hands, that are even rarer in real life, like 7 land hands or getting 3-4 of the same card, make it look like there is something wrong with the RNG instead of our manual randomization.

[Siiig]

There's nothing wrong with the RNG shuffler, people are just used to real life magic where we never actually truly randomize our decks like we are supposed to. We are biased shufflers and consciously, or unconsciously, try to separate similar cards and space lands evenly apart since because we think that is what random is supposed to look like. RNGs dont do that so rare hands, that are even rarer in real life, like 7 land hands or getting 3-4 of the same card, make it look like there is something wrong with the RNG instead of our manual randomization.

I'd be pretty inclined to agree with this. It sucks for online play, but it's true.

[Ayotte]

There's nothing wrong with the RNG shuffler, people are just used to real life magic where we never actually truly randomize our decks like we are supposed to. We are biased shufflers and consciously, or unconsciously, try to separate similar cards and space lands evenly apart since because we think that is what random is supposed to look like. RNGs dont do that so rare hands, that are even rarer in real life, like 7 land hands or getting 3-4 of the same card, make it look like there is something wrong with the RNG instead of our manual randomization.

This is the argument that I make and why I say peoples' complaints about RNGs reek of confirmation bias. However, true random number generators are pretty tough to make, so it's certainly possible that there is a bad one. I'm not convinced until I see data, though.

[Undomian]

I'm outside of Pittsburgh. Only one local store has any legacy. They have tried to host tournaments at other ones but got very low attendance. The closest store to me is only 10 minutes away but is super casual. There's only one other dude with any duals at all.

Mr. Nice Guy Games usually gets ~20-25 people at their monthly events. Its certainly not huge, but its not the worst turnout I've ever seen.

[Star|Scream]

Mr. Nice Guy Games usually gets ~20-25 people at their monthly events. Its certainly not huge, but its not the worst turnout I've ever seen.

Yeah that's the one I'm talking about. That seems to be it, though, and other attempts have failed at other stores.

[Koby]

No don't =(

Where are you at on the East Coast (big city nearness, state, whatever...don't need a street address or some shit)?

Unrelatedly, have you considered trying MODO? Obviously the whole having to get things you already own rankles (reasons I haven't done it....I have a very, -very- nice collection and I have no intention of rebuying all of that), but Legacy dailies are firing fairly regularly and you should be able to hop in 2-man queues whenever you want, from what I've seen of pros streaming. Considering that they run PTQs and other high-profile events on MODO, I'm assuming that the randomization matrix is somewhat more realistic, as well.

FWIW, the MTGO metagame right now is heavily RDW, Belcher, and highly disruptive 3c decks to deal with all those combos. I wouldn't be taking a deck like Nic Fit into such a metagame, because it sucks having to play on the edge of your seat hoping you don't lose before the deck does its thing.

[Petree]

@Arianrhod

I believe that's the kind of inputs that will make this deck dtb some day haha just a thought. My meta is either heavy control or random a** combo decks that shouldnt exist but people play it because no one expects it or prepares for it. After reading your advice, i did indeed cut the hullbreach for a pulse and use the open slot to play virtues ruin. I just figured if i had 3 deeds and 4 wishes i could already answer it but after that explanation it makes huge sense to play the virtues ruin. Damnation is still a question for me, does clear the board.

The lands has had a lot of tweaking to it but now it works fine. Although i do feel like i should just copy your land list haha I just hated never having green and black at the same time. Even when i played the gwb version if those two colors didn't exist it was really difficult to do anything broken.

The aggro side is actually the true game plan but i like to bait people to fear the combo that they let me have the awesome aggro then at the same time if it becomes too much, angry mountains come through. Either way the essence of the deck plays like Aggro Loam (the deck that i am most comfortable with and will go down as one of my deck of all time) but its not fragile to all the GY hate.

[XdeckX]

I'd invite people to come over here, but i don't think any of you live in the Netherlands/Belgium :P

Not true but limburg is still too far off ;)

[Viridia]

Not true but limburg is still too far off ;)

I'm more up north nowadays! A little south-east of eindhoven :P

[sderenatore]

@Arianrhod Abyssal Persecutor flies, tramples and is a 6/6 for 4 mana. I use him cause i want treats in every form: creatures, artifacts, planeswalkers, sorc/instants. He is a must counter and gives control player a hard time choosing what to counter first. He gives aggro players a hard time being a wall against their creatures and comes down very quickly. It speeds up the clock when we are low life and people ran out of gas.
I don't really like Desecration Demon: He doesn't defend in case with need him as Persecutor does(4 life, tarmo and DRS in play, sac DRS, tap Demon--> ouch), he can gift our opponent a turn if we are attacking and we need to end the match as soon as possible cause he doesnt trample and, again, can be tapped.
For as much as I played the deck, I noticed that Chronofit has potentially even a better late game than the other two versions, but against really fast decks, its not always that brilliant in the first few turns. It's not that rare to be at <10 life before we are able to steal the match in the face of an astonished opponent: we don't have GSZ to tutor up our Thragtusk, no Huntmaster, no Ooze (some lists play it) etc. , we don't have as much creatures as red or white Nic-Fit.
I tested more, and Abyssal persecutor always made me happy to draw him either to defend or attack.. Also... he has a MOTHERFU*KING black-energy-evil-badass-deadly-ultimate-uber-MOTHERFU*KING SWORD!!! (Desecration demon is bare hand.. meh )

[CRich3]

Quick question. I just bought a most in real life and wanted to cry as the money disappeared from my account. Preparing for SCG legacy. I can't pay another 100 for Nether Void. Do you think a second Leyline of Sanctity would be a suitable replacement? Also does it matter if I use null profusion instead of Recycle?