I'm pretty happy to see some others Manaless players trying LED in their SB.Originally Posted by sherko7
I just think you still have some fear with this type of SB :
Try this list, it is really tight and scoops on Leyline but very fun :
ManaLeD
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
3 Griselbrand
4 Chancellor of the Annex
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Nether Shadow
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Shambling Shell
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Street Wraith
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Dread Return
4 Gitaxian Probe
SB: 3 Deep Analysis
SB: 4 Desperate Ravings
SB: 4 Lion's Eye Diamond
SB: 4 Sickening Shoal
The goal is pretty simple, to go off before hate comes. You add massive business in G2 to explode T1-T2.
+11 cards : 4 LED +7 Blue draw spells (you will see why i don't use faithless)
-11 cards : -1 Flayer, -4 Phantasman, -3 Shambling, -2 Grisel - 1 Shadow
In this type of plan, Chancelor is really nut, it gives protection to land a LED and use a draw spell and also is a Fat target to DR. Taxing effect T1 is quite insane.
You got 15 draw spells and you can chain them :
Put LED in play :
Play Probe in response recycle Streetwraith and in response crack LED. I got 7 chances to draw more with Analysis + desperate taking blue mana from LED (got a fizzle factor if i run Faithless)
With disenchant effects you can't decently take a mulligan and it results to some more timewalk for you. With a LED side based, you can mulligan if your hand is really horrible or just mull to get a LED and a dredge card with the drawback that you scoop against LL.I don't understand how running LED's and Faithless Lootings sideboard is any different in the consistency then running lands and Disenchant effects in the side.
Why Deep Anal? Faithless Looting plsAnd I don't think playing more than 4 draw spells (other than Probe, Wraith isn't a spell) is good. They're dead in your opening without LED. On the other hand, LED is certainly as good with or without a draw effect.
Because you want to crack LED for UWhy Deep Anal? Faithless Looting pls
Only if you're playing Desperate Ravings and Deep Analysis.
Faithless is good because the dredgers you just gained go back to the yard, instead of being stuck there hoping for Phantasmagorian.
I don't think I'd wanna play with 8 cards in the main that need an LED, seeing as LED's don't return from the yard......
I'd be super excited in order to be able to play the Serum Powder, Lion's Eye Diamond and Faithless Looting package againLEDs in your opening hand in G2 work great even without Looting. It also gives us the option to mull for it in G2 as even without Looting in your GY you still get to discard your whole hand. You basically go from all in G1 to NUTS AND BALLS ALL IN G2 if need be. Mulling/inconsistency issues with the anti-hate we pack post board is a different thing. LEDs post board offers explosiveness on the play. You only need LEDs in the opening hand, Looting is not an issue. Even if you keep 7 and DDD, you can keep the LED until you have Looting in the yard and just fuck the game up. FEARLESS
I will definitely try this out, maybe in the next few bigger tourneys in our country. But time is not yet ripe. Everyone is still scared of Mr. rektareloaded!
As much as I love inovation and trying stuff, I still don't really get the LED package. Sorry :-)LEDs in your opening hand in G2 work great even without Looting. It also gives us the option to mull for it in G2 as even without Looting in your GY you still get to discard your whole hand. You basically go from all in G1 to NUTS AND BALLS ALL IN G2 if need be. Mulling/inconsistency issues with the anti-hate we pack post board is a different thing. LEDs post board offers explosiveness on the play. You only need LEDs in the opening hand, Looting is not an issue. Even if you keep 7 and DDD, you can keep the LED until you have Looting in the yard and just fuck the game up. FEARLESS
I will definitely try this out, maybe in the next few bigger tourneys in our country. But time is not yet ripe. Everyone is still scared of Mr. rektareloaded!
Why would you want that explosiveness game 2?
I could understand LED/Faithless main and side it out game2, since this could have us actually be able to start game 1. And be explosive game 1, while having less fear of hate game 2.
The other way around just sounds strange to me.
Leyline of the Void = autolose.
Considering RiP comes in on turn 2, speed would be everything provided LotV has been dodged.
Well, I thought that was the reason we played Dryad Arbor, and Reverent Silence plus Nature's Claim in side.Leyline of the Void = autolose.
Considering RiP comes in on turn 2, speed would be everything provided LotV has been dodged.
Before Hollywood brought Dryad maindeck, I was running 4 Dryad, 3 Fetch, 1 Forest side together with 4 Nature's Claim and 3 Rev. Silence. And I more then once blew up Leyline turn 1 or 2.
Usually because opponents back then didn't expect it.
But being explosive game 2 doesn't help game 2 against leyline of the void.
Definitely I would only want 3-4 Faithless Lootings with 4 LEDs in the SB. I think more would just kill us unless there's any way to play 5-8 LEDs :)Only if you're playing Desperate Ravings and Deep Analysis.
Faithless is good because the dredgers you just gained go back to the yard, instead of being stuck there hoping for Phantasmagorian.
I don't think I'd wanna play with 8 cards in the main that need an LED, seeing as LED's don't return from the yard......
Serum Powder might work well with the game plan post board but it just takes too much space. LED is the only dead card I want in my GY, as it makes up for that fact by being just plain explosive in your opening.
Don't get me wrong, but I am just trying out a new route by going "FEARLESS". My stand is that anti-hate is simply useless if you don't draw it in your opening, and with how Manaless works you simply can't afford to mull down to even 6 for that. I can't recall the number of times that I just prayed I draw 1 Arbor 1 Nature's Claim in my opening as I knew my opponent was playing Cage, then I just don't get it and decide to keep a hand that just dies to it. Add that to the fact that most people are already foregoing GY-specific hate cards as they're confident their DRS or their friends'/other players' DRS scare the dredge players away.
Basically, since we'll usually be on the play post-board, by bringing in LEDs and Lootings we will have the ability to mull to LED, show a Chancellor, and then just freakin' win the following turn. :)
Of course, haven't tested it too much. Will let you guys know how it pans out.
Call to the Netherworld if you're going fearless?
Sac LED, then discard your hand = pay the madness cost, and then recur a Wraith to your hand to dredge some more..... just an idea.
Could also use it at end of turn to grab a Wraith from the yard a second time and DDD.
Wha'chu think Sherko?
Hey guys! I just got this deck a few days ago and have been goldfishing it intensely lol. Today i finally got to play some real games and I am kinda stuck with what I want to do. I played extensive games against belcher, elves, reanimator (not tin fins) a UR delver snapcaster burn thing and high tide. THIS. DECK. IS. THE. SHIZ. It is so consistent! I am playing hollywoods list. I don't want the creature removal main deck, so that gives me four slots to fill. Chancellor was definitely an mvp in the slot. It helped soooo much against every deck i played and seems to give you just enough of a boost in the beginning to start getting things done. But I also tried gitaxian probe in the slot too and i liked it a whole lot as well, knowing what to call on the first therapy was awesome and it gives you basically a +1 turn worth of dredging boost. And that's where I'm torn. I like chancellor for the early disruption, its a good DR target and triggers nether shadow. I like gitaxian probe because it speeds you up a turn (theoretically lol) and makes therapy count. I cant decide which is better. What do you guys think?
Annex is better. It acts as pseudo-protection for your end-of-first-turn discard, as without them blowing up a 0-cost spell, they won't be able to pay the 1.
Probe can't be played until turn 2, so it means that DRS, Relic of Progenitus etc will still be able to kill your first turn discard, and stop you doing anything besides wish mummy would fix it.
Don't worry about always hitting with Therapy, you'll get better as you get to know the deck types and learn which cards are murderous against us.
After a dickload more testing, I've dropped the maindeck removal and put Annex in there too.
Despite my earlier whinging about it....... it's pretty good.
Call to the Netherworld would be great! But I really don't like building too much around the post board LEDs. As I said earlier, the 3-4 Faithless Lootings would suffice for me. Call to the Netherworld would probably be an option if and only if it was MD-able. Too bad it isn't. :(
Chancellor felt like the better card overall, but there were instances when it felt like being a little faster would have won games, but chancellor left me feeling like it was was better. It really shined against reanimator (fuck you entomb for elesh norn lol) and against belcher. This deck is amazingly consistent though holy hell.
Annex is better. It acts as pseudo-protection for your end-of-first-turn discard, as without them blowing up a 0-cost spell, they won't be able to pay the 1.
Probe can't be played until turn 2, so it means that DRS, Relic of Progenitus etc will still be able to kill your first turn discard, and stop you doing anything besides wish mummy would fix it.
Don't worry about always hitting with Therapy, you'll get better as you get to know the deck types and learn which cards are murderous against us.
After a dickload more testing, I've dropped the maindeck removal and put Annex in there too.
Despite my earlier whinging about it....... it's pretty good.
Last edited by SquirtMcGirt; 03-09-2013 at 01:59 AM.
Sometimes, you get to DR Chancellor on your first actual turn (the turn you dredge)... And boy o boy, what an amazing feeling that is.
That is dirty as hell man! Lmao
Sometimes, you get to DR Chancellor on your first actual turn (the turn you dredge)... And boy o boy, what an amazing feeling that is.
Dread Return a Chancellor - First turn? How?
Once you first turn discard, I thought that was it - you couldn't activatePhants/Wraith your dredger until your opponents' end step, therefore DR until turn 2?
(DR is a sorcery anyways)
If you read closely I did say "first actual turn" with "the turn you Dredge" in parenthesis
Oh man.... I guess I didn't think about that one much b4 I hit reply.If you read closely I did say "first actual turn" with "the turn you Dredge" in parenthesis
Although;
If you have a dredger in hand, Wraith, Probe and LED on turn 1, instead of end of turn discard; > Play LED, Cast Probe, Cycle Wraith, Activate LED > Dredge away.
And who knows, you may even get a first turn Therapy that way too?
With DRS around the traps, I like this option!
In G2 this is almost always a good play. Firstly, blue decks like to board out FoW against us. Second, well you're on the play. Third, might as well go nuts the first turn instead of going DDD if you have a draw effect and LED in your opening.Oh man.... I guess I didn't think about that one much b4 I hit reply.
Although;
If you have a dredger in hand, Wraith, Probe and LED on turn 1, instead of end of turn discard; > Play LED, Cast Probe, Cycle Wraith, Activate LED > Dredge away.
And who knows, you may even get a first turn Therapy that way too?
With DRS around the traps, I like this option!
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
