[Deck] WUr Wafo/Cuneo Draw-Go Control

[Fizzeler]

A thread for Wafo-Tapa and Andrew Cuneo Draw-Go control, typically UWr with counters, removal, and manlands

Sample List:
4 Arid Mesa
4 Celestial Colonnade
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Mystic Gate
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
3 Tectonic Edge
26 lands

3 Snapcaster Mage
3 creatures

4 Cryptic Command
3 Electrolyze
1 Isochron Scepter
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
3 Mana Leak
2 Path to Exile
2 Shadow of Doubt
3 Spell Snare
2 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Think Twice
30 other spells

1 Ajani Vengeant
1 planeswalker


Sideboard
1 Batterskull
2 Celestial Purge
2 Counterflux
1 Pyroclasm
2 Sowing Salt
2 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Vendilion Clique
15 sideboard cards

Discuss!

[Koby]

I hate this deck, not because it's bad. but because it's fucking obnoxious to play against. I have nightmares of 1997 all over again playing against it.

Well played, Wafo-Tapo, well played.

FWIW, I ended up losing to this list at the GP when my opponent drew all 3 Tec Edges along with Ajani Vengeant, to go all Ponza on my 20 land deck. T.T

[Fizzeler]

I hate this deck, not because it's bad. but because it's fucking obnoxious to play against. I have nightmares of 1997 all over again playing against it.

Well played, Wafo-Tapo, well played.

FWIW, I ended up losing to this list at the GP when my opponent drew all 3 Tec Edges along with Ajani Vengeant, to go all Ponza on my 20 land deck. T.T

It is a chore to play against (I play it and let me say I hate sitting across RG Tron with it since you almost always lose if they have turn 3 Karn), but the mirrors and Midrange MUs are quite fun

Wafo successfully built a Draw-Go control deck and now Cuneo is working on his own build of a control deck, I'll post that whenever I see a finalized list on his stream

Ajani Vengeant is the newest addition to the deck (I run Gideon and Elspeth as well and some builds run Karn) he does everything you want him to disrupts vs Aggro, locks out midrange, and stalls vs combo

The deck runs 4 Tec Edge for WUR and Tron, RG Tron is a very bad MU for the deck as it just loses to Karn so very hard if they can't deal with it the turn it comes out

[LowBeyonder]

I played a very similar list at the GP and was happy with the deck (despite my misplays costing me pretty badly). The Tron matchup is godawful, though.

[Fizzeler]

I played a very similar list at the GP and was happy with the deck (despite my misplays costing me pretty badly). The Tron matchup is godawful, though.

Yeah considering a 2/2 split between GQ and Tec Edge just for Tron and running Crucible in the board

[DragoFireheart]

+



=


1. Lots of direct damage.

2. Ral taps the dude, Ajani keeps him tapped down.

3. Both are good on their own.

4. In this decks' colors.

[Arsenal]

After many months on UWR Midrange, I've decided to pickup UWR Control beginning this Friday. I've always been a control player at heart and even though UWR Control has fallen out of favor lately, I still think it's powerful enough to be competitive in an open meta. Here's the list I'm running for this week's FNM:

2 Ajani Vengeant

4 Snapcaster Mage

2 Supreme Verdict

2 Think Twice
2 Sphinx’s Revelation
2 Lightning Helix
2 Electrolyze
3 Spell Snare
3 Mana Leak
4 Cryptic Command
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt

1 Sulfur Falls
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Island
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
3 Tectonic Edge
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Celestial Colonnade

Sideboard:

2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Hallowed Burial
2 Stony Silence
2 Wear//Tear
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Counterflux
1 Dispel
3 Negate

My local meta sees competitive players piloting RG Tron, Affinity, Twin Exarch, Melira Pod, BGx Midrange (Junk and Jund), Living End, UWR Control, Scapeshift, Soul Sisters, and then your usual smattering of ultra random stuff like Boros, Burn, homebrews, etc.

EDIT: Updated 5-13-14 decklist.

[Davran]

I've been playing this list for the past couple weeks with mixed results:

4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
3 Lightning Helix
3 Mana Leak
1 Think Twice
2 Electrolyze
2 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Cryptic Command

2 Supreme Verdict

1 Elspeth, Knight-errant
1 Gideon Jura

3 Arid Mesa
4 Celestial Colonnade
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
3 Tectonic Edge

Sideboard:
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Dispel
1 Wear // Tear
2 Celestial Purge
1 Combust
1 Pyroclasm
2 Stony Silence
2 Counterflux
2 Sowing Salt
1 Batterskull
1 Hallowed Burial

My meta is full of more "budget" decks like burn and affinity. I also see a lot of UR Delver/Pyromancer, occasionaly jund, and tron (both mono-U and RG).

I've been thinking about swapping the Gideon for Ajani Vengeant, and the Cliques for Restoration Angels.

The sideboard is also kind of a mess. Hallowed Burial is there mostly as filler because I had no idea what else to put in.

Any suggestions are certainly welcome.

[Arsenal]

You definitely want to run at least 3, probably 4, Electrolyze versus aggro decks like Affinity, Burn (assuming they're running Goblin Guides, Hellspark Elemental, etc), Soul Sisters, 2/1 Pyromancers + his 1/1 token army, random homebrews.

I've been unimpressed by Gideon Jura everytime I've drawn him. I think with 3 Path, 2 Verdict, 3-4 Electrolyze, 2-3 Helix + 4 Snapcasters, crowd control isn't an issue. Gideon Jura just turns on your opponent's otherwise mostly dead spot removal should you ever +0 him, and while his +2 is good in situations, Verdict is generally better and comes down 1 turn sooner (relevant if you're trying to stablize versus Affinity).

Ajani is the best finisher we have. The "keep your land tapped" + Tectonic Edge plan can really out us far ahead in certain games (we run 26 lands, other decks are at 22-24). And Ajani's ultimate wins the game outright whereas other Planewalkers' ultimates don't.

[Davran]

You definitely want to run at least 3, probably 4, Electrolyze versus aggro decks like Affinity, Burn (assuming they're running Goblin Guides, Hellspark Elemental, etc), Soul Sisters, 2/1 Pyromancers + his 1/1 token army, random homebrews.

I've been unimpressed by Gideon Jura everytime I've drawn him. I think with 3 Path, 2 Verdict, 3-4 Electrolyze, 2-3 Helix + 4 Snapcasters, crowd control isn't an issue. Gideon Jura just turns on your opponent's otherwise mostly dead spot removal should you ever +0 him, and while his +2 is good in situations, Verdict is generally better and comes down 1 turn sooner (relevant if you're trying to stablize versus Affinity).

Ajani is the best finisher we have. The "keep your land tapped" + Tectonic Edge plan can really out us far ahead in certain games (we run 26 lands, other decks are at 22-24). And Ajani's ultimate wins the game outright whereas other Planewalkers' ultimates don't.

I'll try out the third Electolyze for sure. I had been running the 3rd Helix in its spot because sometimes I needed the life way more than I needed the card. That's probably more to do with me making poor decisions than the list not being "right", though.

I feel the same way with Gideon. He either sits in hand, or winds up being countered. As far as I can remember, the only time he did something was against the poor bastard at his first FNM with a pile of about 80 blue and green cards. The poor kid had never seen a planeswalker before, so the resolved Gideon was a huge beating. I'm hoping that Ajani will prove to be more useful.

Elspeth, on the other hand, is a recent addition I'm trying out...and she hasn't really come up yet. I'm mostly hoping to chump with the soldiers or occasionally get in there with a jumped snappy or something. I guess I'll see how it plays out.

[Arsenal]

Against a legion of */1 dudes you likely face in your meta (Affinity, UR Pyromancer, etc), Electrolyze's 2-for-0 (kill two */1 dudes, Electrolyze replaces itself) can just win games by itself. I'd seriously run no less than 3 and I'd probably go to 4 in your meta.

Elspeth, Knight-Errant is interesting. I have also considered her, but I just can never get behind her. Her ultimate is "meh" although her two +1s can finish games quickly and she'll eventually run the opponent out of creature spot removal whereas Celestial Colonnade eating a Path to Exile/Terminate/Tectonic Edge can hurt us when we're trying to finish quickly.

[Davran]

Against a legion of */1 dudes you likely face in your meta (Affinity, UR Pyromancer, etc), Electrolyze's 2-for-0 (kill two */1 dudes, Electrolyze replaces itself) can just win games by itself. I'd seriously run no less than 3 and I'd probably go to 4 in your meta.

Elspeth, Knight-Errant is interesting. I have also considered her, but I just can never get behind her. Her ultimate is "meh" although her two +1s can finish games quickly and she'll eventually run the opponent out of creature spot removal whereas Celestial Colonnade eating a Path to Exile/Terminate/Tectonic Edge can hurt us when we're trying to finish quickly.

The other thing I'm just now realizing is that Spell Snare is a card that UR decks typically play. Electrolyze blanks it a whole lot better than Helix ever would.

Elspeth's ultimate might as well not exist in this format. Although, I suppose indestructible Colonnades are a thing vs. everything except Path to Exile.

I saw your updated list above - if you don't mind my asking, what's your sideboard strategy look like? I think that's one of my bigger stumbling blocks with the deck, especially when it comes to decks like Twin where we don't necessarily have "bad" cards (except maybe Verdict I guess).

[Mr. Safety]

I've noticed that the really powerful cards in these decks are all blue and white. Yes Bolt is good, helix gives you life, and Ajani can be absurd. For the sake of research however, I am testing a 'red-less' build of this deck to see how it would fare. I feel that the power level can still be there, and while Gideon Jura hasn't been good in the above lists I feel that is due to the reach from the burn. I've found, in the few games I've tested this, that chaining a ton of Cryptic Commands is really, really good.

Current list:

3x Snapcaster Mage
2x Vendilion Clique
2x Restoration Angel

4x Serum Visions
4x Mana Leak
4x Path to Exile
4x Cryptic Command
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Wrath of God
2x Spell Snare
2x Detention Sphere
2x Sphinx's Revelation
2x Gideon Jura
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant

4x Celestial Colonnade
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Sejiri Refuge
2x Glacial Fortress
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Arid Mesa
2x Misty Rainforest
4x Island
2x Plains
3x Tectonic Edge


I would love thoughts on this list. As I said, it's an experiment. So far it has been still doing a great job as a control deck. Gideon seems to close games fast once he comes online and I've LOVED Elspeth in there so far.

[Arsenal]

The other thing I'm just now realizing is that Spell Snare is a card that UR decks typically play. Electrolyze blanks it a whole lot better than Helix ever would.

Elspeth's ultimate might as well not exist in this format. Although, I suppose indestructible Colonnades are a thing vs. everything except Path to Exile.

I saw your updated list above - if you don't mind my asking, what's your sideboard strategy look like? I think that's one of my bigger stumbling blocks with the deck, especially when it comes to decks like Twin where we don't necessarily have "bad" cards (except maybe Verdict I guess).

The way I approach is UWR Control is that I'm supremely confident that my maindeck will crush aggro decks like Affinity/Boros/Infect/etc, I'll usually 1-for-1 midrange decks like Jund reasonably well until I can Sphinx for 4+, and the problematic matchups are the decks that rely mostly on noncreature spells to get there. Hence, my sideboard is dedicated to the noncreature matchups like Living End (I don't consider this a creature deck), Tron, Ad Nauseum combo, Twin (I realize the win condition is creature based, but their noncreature spells are the real problem).

Against Tron:

-2 Supreme Verdict, +2 Counterflux
-2 Lightning Helix, -4 Snapcaster, +2 Aven Mindcensor, +2 Stony Silence, +2 Sowing Salt
-3 Electrolyze, +3 Negate
-2 Spell Snare, +2 Wear//Tear

Against Living End:

-2 Supreme Verdict (you won't have 4 mana to cast this between their Avalance Riders, Fulminator Mages and Beast Withins), + 2 Counterflux
-3 Spell Snare, +3 Negate
-2 Lightning Helix, +2 Aven Mindcensor (Flash-speed pressure that they can't really remove outside of Living End and Beast Within is better than Helix, and you may get lucky with turning off their Swamp/Plainscyclers)

Against Scapeshift:

-2 Supreme Verdict, +2 Counterflux
-2 Lightning Helix, +2 Aven Mindcensor
-2 Electrolyze, +2 Sowing Salt (you may get lucky and hit their naked Valakut or even hitting their Shocklands is quite good)
-3 Mana Leak, +3 Negate (I keep in the Spell Snares for their Remand/Izzet Charm/mana accel, and Mana Leak can get quite bad versus them rather quickly if they do ramp)

Against Twin:

-2 Supreme Verdict, +2 Counterflux
-2 Lightning Helix, +2 Wear//Tear (this is insanely good vs. them as they'll typically bring in cards like Spellskite, Batterskull, Blood Moon on top of being able to hit the actual card Splinter Twin)
-1 Electrolyze, -2 Think Twice, +3 Negate (this matchup is super grindy, so I think it's better to have redundancy over Think Twice's hit-or-miss advantage)

Against Ad Nauseum:

-2 Supreme Verdict, +2 Counterflux (save these for the actual card Ad Nauseum)
-3 Path to Exile, +3 Negate
-2 Lightning Helix, +2 Aven Mindcensor (hits Mystical Teachings, can apply pressure out of nowhere)
-3 Spell Snare, -1 Electrolyze, +2 Stony Silence (stops their mana accel), +2 Wear//Tear (can hit a mana accel piece and/or Phyrexian Unlife).
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Mr. Safety -

That list seems like a reasonable place to start if running straight UW, but by cutting cards like 1cc Instant Lightning Bolt and 2cc Instant Lightning Helix, you've replaced it with more powerful, but less versatile and infintely slower cards like Detention Sphere + increasing your 4cc sweeper count. Also, Red gives you lots of nice SB options like Sowing Salt, Counterflux (wins pivotal stack wars in the Blue matchups), Combust, Wear/Tear, etc. Just something to think about.

EDIT: I've gone 4-0 the last two weeks at FNM with my maindeck. The only flex slots are the 2 Celestial Purge, sometimes they're 2 Rest in Peace if Living End and Junk sees an uptick.

[Mr. Safety]

Mr. Safety -

That list seems like a reasonable place to start if running straight UW, but by cutting cards like 1cc Instant Lightning Bolt and 2cc Instant Lightning Helix, you've replaced it with more powerful, but less versatile and infintely slower cards like Detention Sphere + increasing your 4cc sweeper count. Also, Red gives you lots of nice SB options like Sowing Salt, Counterflux (wins pivotal stack wars in the Blue matchups), Combust, Wear/Tear, etc. Just something to think about.

EDIT: I've gone 4-0 the last two weeks at FNM with my maindeck. The only flex slots are the 2 Celestial Purge, sometimes they're 2 Rest in Peace if Living End and Junk sees an uptick.

I was feeling the same way, the deck has a weak early game (just Snare, Path, and Mana Leak.) Path isn't ideal in the early game, and nowhere near as good as Bolt in turns 1-3 (sometimes further.) Serum Visions is there to keep the deck active in the early game while making sure I get crucial land drops and a 4-mana wiper in time to matter.

I could easily go the route of adding red, which I have played in the past. I have all of the neccessary lands and cards for it, no problem. The only thing I lack is a 4th Snapcaster Mage (and I don't see a full set in all lists anyways.)

The main reasons to avoid red: mana-base stability (Cryptic is essentially ALWAYS online), less complicated lines of play, more powerful spells higher on the curve. More stable against the mid-range decks and Blood Moon is a non-issue.

The main reasons to play red: better early game, better ability at racing (reach)

This is what I have for 'deductions' so far. It's just an initial impression, one I will be testing more. Honestly, I felt that the red versions sometimes didn't have counterspells when it mattered or didn't have removal when it mattered. In the strictly white-blue version the main plan is counterspells and wipers, forcing better card advantage plays rather than driving tempo.

[Arsenal]

With the banning of Deathrite Shaman, Snapcaster's value goes up (if that was even possible). Also, we no longer have to worry about turn 2 Liilana. And if the banning of DRS causes less BGx decks to be played, I hope that will also mean less Thoughtseize being played.

More Nacatl decks and less Thoughtseize decks is a control player's dream. We CRUSH aggro strategies unless they're backed up with disruption and/or countermagic. Zoo runs neither. A win-win for us. UWR Control is looking well positioned. We just have to wait to see what UBx Fae does now.

[Mr. Safety]

With the banning of Deathrite Shaman, Snapcaster's value goes up (if that was even possible). Also, we no longer have to worry about turn 2 Liilana. And if the banning of DRS causes less BGx decks to be played, I hope that will also mean less Thoughtseize being played.

More Nacatl decks and less Thoughtseize decks is a control player's dream. We CRUSH aggro strategies unless they're backed up with disruption and/or countermagic. Zoo runs neither. A win-win for us. UWR Control is looking well positioned. We just have to wait to see what UBx Fae does now.

Fold to Supreme Verdict? ;) Oh wait, I mean fold to a Volcanic Fallout. I jest, but it's a brave new world out there.

I will still be continually testing my straight U/W version, especially now that the primary culprit for splashing Bolts is now gone (Deathrite.)

[JPoJohnson]

Why is T2 Lili all of the sudden non-existant? There are other mana dorks that can fill DRS slot to allow for the T2 still. I don't get why people are thinking this way.

[Arsenal]

UBx Fae could be a thing. Turn 1 Thoughtseize, turn 2 Bitterblossom can be super annoying for us. We don't have any good answer to a resolved Bitterblossom maindeck, other than to hope we can burn them out due to their fetchland/shockland/Thoughtseize/Bitterblossom lifeloss. Postboard, I have 2 Wear//Tear, so I feel a bit better.

[YamiJoey]

Why is T2 Lili all of the sudden non-existant? There are other mana dorks that can fill DRS slot to allow for the T2 still. I don't get why people are thinking this way.

1) Because they must have Green. DRS could be cast from Swamp.
2) Birds -> Lili isn't a deck.