Miracle Control

[Einherjer]

I don't know why you'd ever consider boarding out Terminus vs Esper. They are fairy likely to have Geists in the board, mainly for us.

But if you'd keep in Terminus, you'd have to board out Swords, meaning that you are horribly weak to a T2 Mystic?

Greetings

[Koplinchen]

Exactly - when I loose to Esper it is against horde of creatures, jace and counter back-up. We want to keep terminus in.

[TaxMan]

do you keep all FOW in against esper?

[twndomn]

do you keep all FOW in against esper?

I would argue that FoW is pretty horrible in current Legacy Meta. It's only useful against combos like High tide, Show and Tell, and Storm.

Esper is not those comb decks. In the Legacy tournaments I've been to, the chance of me running into combo is a lot less than everything else. Looking at Joe/Oarsman's list, Misdirection might be a better approach at this point.

[oarsman]

I hate force of will and love misdirection. Even so, the safe way to set my deck up is to split 3/1. Recently I have gone 2/2, but for this weekend I am intending to go the safe route. I might change my mind again before tomorrow morning. If I had any ability to predict the metagame I might feel more confident about 2/2. But I don't, and going in blind I am hedging against combo. It will be the same 75 either way, unless I hear some crazy stuff tonight.

Last invitational I got torn apart by abrupt decay and ended up 3-5 in Legacy. I'm better prepared this time (for everything). If I can manage to break even in Standard I expect to make it into the second day.

[TaxMan]

so apart from FOW, what do you take out against esper, all StP?
Esper and Maverick are only two matchups where i'm not sure how to side in/out, as almost all maindeck cards are not really bad, but not all of them are excellent.
I've read some articles as well and each sideboard strategy was different so not sure what plan is the best...

I hate force of will and love misdirection. Even so, the safe way to set my deck up is to split 3/1. Recently I have gone 2/2, but for this weekend I am intending to go the safe route. I might change my mind again before tomorrow morning. If I had any ability to predict the metagame I might feel more confident about 2/2. But I don't, and going in blind I am hedging against combo. It will be the same 75 either way, unless I hear some crazy stuff tonight.

Last invitational I got torn apart by abrupt decay and ended up 3-5 in Legacy. I'm better prepared this time (for everything). If I can manage to break even in Standard I expect to make it into the second day.

I can imagine that Misdirection can be really good in some matchups, but I would feel a bit unsafe without 4 FOW maindeck, but maybe that's only because I haven't tested Misdirection maindeck yet :-)

[DragoFireheart]

Taking out StP seems like a really bad idea. Turn 2 SFM protected by countermagic will quickly kill a Miracle deck.

[TaxMan]

here is my actual decklist:
3 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
2 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
1 Karakas
1 Mountain
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Terminus
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Detention Sphere
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
3 Counterbalance
3 Rest in Peace
1 Helm of Obedience
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Vendilion Clique

SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Path to Exile
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Blood Moon
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Entreat the Angels
SB: 1 Energy Field
SB: 1 Counterspell
SB: 1 Pithing Needle

so what would be the sideboard plan for esper/maverick?

any comments/tips to my main/sidelist are welcome as well.

Taking out StP seems like a really bad idea. Turn 2 SFM protected by countermagic will quickly kill a Miracle deck.

i know, but on the another hand they are useless against Geist and Lingerings. and against miracles they will search first for Sword of Feast and Famine I think, so stp will not do too much

[sauce]

Taking out StP seems like a really bad idea. Turn 2 SFM protected by countermagic will quickly kill a Miracle deck.

you cant take your removal out vs them at all. you just have to take out some amount of force of wills and put in some red blasts/counterspells depending on your board.

i typically cut fow vs mirror-ish decks. i may leave 1 for cbtop purposes though just in case but i hate fow.

[Koby]

FOW is miserable in fair matchups. You're better off trading 1 for 1 with Counterspell and StP than Forcing spells. You generally want to cast all your blue spells, not pitch them.

[Dzra]

Supreme Verdict and Venser are both pretty good against Stoneblade and being 4cmc is nice. I'm not sure I like Spell Pierce against them very much, but I think FoW definitely has to go. I suppose Pyroclasm is pretty good if you are expecting Geists, but I don't know that I'd go out of my way to have them in the board.

Blood Moon hasn't been impressing me too much lately. I think too many Jund decks have caught on by now and are packing basic Forest and Swamp. Maybe it's simply been awkward luck, but I've seen Jund topdeck out of Blood Moon at least a few times. I suppose it still has game against BUG, but there haven't been many of those lately.

I might cut the Blood Moon for more Sneak and Show hate. Pithing Needle seems good, at least in theory. Dealing with Show and Tell isn't a big problem, but if they resolve Sneak Attack it feels near impossible to win.

[sdematt]

I mean, Blind Obedience, Pithing Needle, Ensnaring Bridge, Humility, and others are all "answers" to it. They only play up to 3 bounce in the board, so they have to Griselbrand AND go find the bounce, if they can. It's pretty bad for them.

-Matt

[Dzra]

I mean, Blind Obedience, Pithing Needle, Ensnaring Bridge, Humility, and others are all "answers" to it. They only play up to 3 bounce in the board, so they have to Griselbrand AND go find the bounce, if they can. It's pretty bad for them.

-Matt

Blind Obedience is one I hadn't thought of. Still, I think either Pithing Needle or Humility might be the better options because dropping Griselbrand and drawing 14 into bounce isn't unreasonable. Humility is sometimes on the slow side which leans me towards Needle, but having a tutorable 4cmc is nice.

[sdematt]

Blind Obedience is one I hadn't thought of. Still, I think either Pithing Needle or Humility might be the better options because dropping Griselbrand and drawing 14 into bounce isn't unreasonable. Humility is sometimes on the slow side which leans me towards Needle, but having a tutorable 4cmc is nice.

Blind Obedience is bad against other decks as well, though. But your best specific answers are going to be Needle and Humility, even though Humility is slow.

-Matt

[Einherjer]

As said in the Rock-Thread. Blind Obedience won't really help you vs a Show and Tell player with a little bit of skill. He can just activate Sneak on our EoT, enttapping and attacking for the win... so how did Obedience help you?
I think Countermagic and O-Rings/Spheres are fine vs the average Show and Tell-draws. If they lucksack into a hand with 3-4 Outlets we just die, but that's fine.

Greetings

[sdematt]

As said in the Rock-Thread. Blind Obedience won't really help you vs a Show and Tell player with a little bit of skill. He can just activate Sneak on our EoT, enttapping and attacking for the win... so how did Obedience help you?
I think Countermagic and O-Rings/Spheres are fine vs the average Show and Tell-draws. If they lucksack into a hand with 3-4 Outlets we just die, but that's fine.

Greetings

And as I said, it's betting than nothing, and it's faster than Humility. I also was pretty sure that I said it was worth than both Needle AND Humility, by the way.

-Matt

[Stavanger]

I played 2 matches against SNT im GPT for Strasbourg. I actually sided 11 cards in this matchup (I was expecting this) with Meddling Mage being most effective and Pithing Needle as runner up. SNT for creature isn't the big issue (Humility, Detention Sphere, Karakas etc). Just stop Sneak Attack and you're good to go. (won with 6-0-1 btw)

I have too little testing against Jund, I have 7 cards to board in, what to board out? FoW ofcourse, but the other 3/4, Jace? Energy Field?

[Koplinchen]

As stated berore we need to watch out for Sneak Attack and if they S+T we put Humility into play. Humility is also huge against Jund, folks, goblins etc... What a great card!

[Jayman]

Humility would make me want to play factories. Do you guys think the red plash is still better than manlands?

[DragoFireheart]

Humility would make me want to play factories. Do you guys think the red plash is still better than manlands?

Only Red Blasts seem worthwhile for a red splash. Maybe P-fire, but I never like splashing more than 2 colors for control decks as we want to make our land drops. A more stable manabase seems more important than having some extra utility/sideboard options.