All B/R update speculation.

[lochlan]

Good point, but they still have to have Wish in the first place. And only half the builds play FF anyway.

[Mr. Safety]

seems like you play the wrong format... Ever tried edh or modern? The existence of combo defines legacy. Without combo the diversity and dynamic would be reduced significantly to a bunch of goodstuff midrange decks dominating.

Agreed.

No combo? Jund FTW.

[HammafistRoob]

@Lochlan- They probably won't be casting S&T in postboard games unless they can win on the spot. They know about Oblivion Ring effects, they don't just walk into them unless they suck, or are forced to in the face of your pressure. The reason the deck is so strong is its resilience to hate.

@Safety- No combo? Turbo Eldrazi all day.

[Dice_Box]

Agreed.

No combo? Jund FTW.

FFS I have never said I am against combo, I play a combo deck. What I have said I am against is a combo deck that is resilient to all forms of hate other than counterspells. Thus forcing you to play blue or just admit defeat. The last thing I want is everyone pushed to playing the same 3 or 4 decks, all blue, because it is the only way to win.

Combo: Fine by me.
Decks that can only be hated out effectively by one of the 5 colours: Not fine by me.

Simple really.

[Mr. Safety]

@Safety- No combo? Turbo Eldrazi all day.

I'm hip to that ;)

[eriktyvollk]

Red Elemental Blast/ Pyro blast answer it and are not blue...

[Lord Seth]

In addition to that, discard is primarily in a color other than Blue (Black).

White has it a little rougher in that it needs multiple cards to completely shut off Show and Tell, but a Phyrexian Revoker/Pithing Needle for Sneak Attack and a Karakas or Oblivion Ring for Show and Tell hit the deck hard.

The idea that you need Blue to beat Show and Tell is erroneous. Though it is fair to say that Mono-Green has problems dealing with Show and Tell, which is probably why the only real mono-Green deck (Elves) can win faster than Show and Tell sometimes.

[monovfox]

Guys. Can we please ban deathrite shaman? I do have a legitimate argument, but I could literally write a 10 page essay on it. Instead, I want your immediate responses to my statement, and insults about my mother/sexuality.

[catmint]

hehe.... I would be interested in your essay. Did not give it much thought because I enjoy the format right now.

First thoughts: Not in favour of a ban, but I am generally way more inclined to unban rather than to ban stuff. Deathrite supports a couple of very different decks/strategies. Just like thoughtseize is played in almost any black deck and brainstorm is played in any blue deck, deathrite is so powerful that he can be played in every fair black (or green) deck. I don't see a problem with black getting such a critical mass that it is the go-to color for fair/midrange decks (esper, junk, jund, bug). Since those midrangy decks also have to beat each other there is enough room for other more linear decks to beat them.

TCdecks june also does not paint a "deathrite-oppressive" picture. http://tcdecks.net/tierdecks.php?ani...&format=Legacy

[JanoschEausH]

When will the next update be?

[Megadeus]

Guys. Can we please ban deathrite shaman? I do have a legitimate argument, but I could literally write a 10 page essay on it. Instead, I want your immediate responses to my statement, and insults about my mother/sexuality.

I do not think that DRS should be banned, however I have thought about it as a potential ban target. The format has warped a bit because it of, and a lot of very greedy decks *cough* Deathblade *cough* have cropped up due to the power of the card, along with it somewhat invalidating GY based strategies or at least weakening them. At the same time however, this little dude has enabled GB to be on par with blue based strategies in terms of power levels which is kind of nice.

Also Ban and Restriction updates coincide with set releases. So like a week before M14 drops or something like that is when we will get an announcement of an (I Hope) unbanning.

[Polish Tamales]

Deathrite seems like a card someone in R&D desperately wanted GB to a player in external formats. He's ridiculous in Modern and it sorta sucks to see him being abused in Legacy right now. I really wished his toughness wasn't at (2) so he would be more manageable.

[death]

When will the next update be?

About a week from now. July 15, 2013.

[nedleeds]

Blood Moon, Pyroclasm and Grim Lavamancer are cards people. Cursed Totem is a card, Ground Seal is a cantrip card. Suppression Field is a card. DRS isn't anything close to bannable ... should he have been a 1/1 or an 0/2 - maybe but at least we aren't talking about a blue creature like Delver or Griselbrand.

[monovfox]

Blood Moon, Pyroclasm and Grim Lavamancer are cards people. Cursed Totem is a card, Ground Seal is a cantrip card. Suppression Field is a card. DRS isn't anything close to bannable ... should he have been a 1/1 or an 0/2 - maybe but at least we aren't talking about a blue creature like Delver or Griselbrand.

Becuase deathrite isn't blu...or red... Or white. Hell, he's even purple at this point. It's not just the p/t that's a problem. He is helpful at any point of the game. At the beginning he generates tempo by putting you up a land drop, and late game he can just grind and grind. Also, it's not like any of those cards you mentioned have been doing jack shit for the past 4-5 months.

[mishima_kazuya]

Deathrite Shaman is perhaps a little too easy to splash for.

And the drawback for splashing for DS is not bad since if they have non-basic hate like Blood Moon, you can still use Deathrite Shaman for colored mana. And its hard to justify going all in on graveyard hate to fight DS since most decks that play it are midrange(BUG shardless, Deathblade, Jund, etc), so they can just use it as a 1/2 body to put equipment on or continue their game plan of getting incremental card advantage. Its kind of like Mental Misstep, but a lot less worse since you still need G or B mana to cast Deathrite Shaman.

I don't think they'll ban it soon, but I would not be surprised if they did.

[Shawon]

So Deathrite Shaman is good. Remind me, when does a card simply being good suddenly become a candidate for banning? Oh wait, I just remembered I'm in the Source, where people bring up bannings every time a deck featuring a recent card does well (see: Time Spiral, Stoneforge Mystic, Green Sun's Zenith - yeah, fucking seriously), and now Deathrite Shaman is on the spotlight. Give it a rest and actually try to change up your strategy instead of wailing ban cries.

Its kind of like Mental Misstep, but a lot less worse since you still need G or B mana to cast Deathrite Shaman.

I don't care how loose a comparison this was, but this is still fucking stupid. Mental Misstep almost singlehandedly killed Legacy diversity (and Legacy itself!) by reducing the metagame to unprecedented stagnancy and homogeneity. Deathrite Shaman has had the complete opposite effect.

[monovfox]

So Deathrite Shaman is good. Remind me, when does a card simply being good suddenly become a candidate for banning? Oh wait, I just remembered I'm in the Source, where people bring up bannings every time a deck featuring a recent card does well (see: Time Spiral, Stoneforge Mystic, Green Sun's Zenith - yeah, fucking seriously), and now Deathrite Shaman is on the spotlight. Give it a rest and actually try to change up your strategy instead of wailing ban cries.



I don't care how loose a comparison this was, but this is still fucking stupid. Mental Misstep almost singlehandedly killed Legacy diversity (and Legacy itself!) by reducing the metagame to unprecedented stagnancy and homogeneity. Deathrite Shaman has had the complete opposite effect.

Deathrite shaman made me build storm, because I cannot deal with a turn 1 deathrite shaman.


Deathrite shaman should be splashed in any deck that can support it. There is no reason to not play the card. It improves mana-bases. It's really just a 1-mana dual land planeswalker that can attack.

[Kich867]

Deathrite shaman made me build storm, because I cannot deal with a turn 1 deathrite shaman.


Deathrite shaman should be splashed in any deck that can support it. There is no reason to not play the card. It improves mana-bases. It's really just a 1-mana dual land planeswalker that can attack.

Word? I often deal with Deathrite Shamans--plow, bolt, decay, etc.

[Barook]

If DRS was banned, people would go back to bitch about graveyard strategies.