All B/R update speculation.

[GreekAsTheGods]

Magus is unplayable. Has been for most of it's life in most formats even before Lorwyn happened. Just saying.

LED was labeled "unplayable" on release. The MTG Community isn't so great at theorycraft and never has been.

[rufus]

...

I respect that you disagree on it, but I really do feel that no card should be able to tutor and mana cheat and be a permanent that poses a threat and draws removal all in one. To me that's too much in one card, and while the end result may be comparible to what other cards in the format do, and by that reasoning it may not be game breaking, ...

In principle, Spawnsire of Ulamog does all of those things, but it's more than balanced out by the mana costs. I'm not sure there's a bright line, or where SFM stands relative to it, but it's clear that powerful effects can be balanced out by costs.

[Dice_Box]

its not even possible to compare SFM to tinker.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...ly/feature/148

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Patrick Chapin had an article about Snapcaster being straight up too strong as well. Tarmogoyf is ridiculous but has no utility and its power is tied entirely to the graveyard which is the focus of like 75% of every side deck currently, DRS even shxts on it

I am pretty sure DRS has an easier time shitting on Snapcaster than Goyf.

The thing about utility creatures is first off they're everywhere, Snapcaster is only one in a sea of troubles in that regards. It's not particularly obvious that it's the most dangerous of the crowd, and in fact it almost certainly isn't based on the numbers.

Also they tend to chase each other around in a circle because different utilities can handle others. P/T by contrast follows a more or less linear progression; more is better. CMC is the opposite; less is better. Goyf peaks the curve and the only way they've really improved in any sense on beatsticks since Goyf was accidentally printed was to print better evasion in Delver. But Goyf still shows up in more non-traditional-creature decks like Jund and Shardless BUG. Goyf forms the evolutionary dead end of beatsticks and I think contributes heavily to what makes other beatsticks and creature-strategies unplayable.

[apple713]

I am pretty sure DRS has an easier time shitting on Snapcaster than Goyf.

The thing about utility creatures is first off they're everywhere, Snapcaster is only one in a sea of troubles in that regards. It's not particularly obvious that it's the most dangerous of the crowd, and in fact it almost certainly isn't based on the numbers.

Also they tend to chase each other around in a circle because different utilities can handle others. P/T by contrast follows a more or less linear progression; more is better. CMC is the opposite; less is better. Goyf peaks the curve and the only way they've really improved in any sense on beatsticks since Goyf was accidentally printed was to print better evasion in Delver. But Goyf still shows up in more non-traditional-creature decks like Jund and Shardless BUG. Goyf forms the evolutionary dead end of beatsticks and I think contributes heavily to what makes other beatsticks and creature-strategies unplayable.

unfortunatly he will only get better in time. I see the game expanding and introducing new card types.... how about a 10/11 goyf t3? maybe after an archive trap or glimpse the unthinkable?

[GreekAsTheGods]

I am pretty sure DRS has an easier time shitting on Snapcaster than Goyf.

The thing about utility creatures is first off they're everywhere, Snapcaster is only one in a sea of troubles in that regards. It's not particularly obvious that it's the most dangerous of the crowd, and in fact it almost certainly isn't based on the numbers.

Also they tend to chase each other around in a circle because different utilities can handle others. P/T by contrast follows a more or less linear progression; more is better. CMC is the opposite; less is better. Goyf peaks the curve and the only way they've really improved in any sense on beatsticks since Goyf was accidentally printed was to print better evasion in Delver. But Goyf still shows up in more non-traditional-creature decks like Jund and Shardless BUG. Goyf forms the evolutionary dead end of beatsticks and I think contributes heavily to what makes other beatsticks and creature-strategies unplayable.

Shits on both to some degree. I feel that utility creatures shouldn't be above the curve in every aspect of the card though. Snapcaster has ridiculously good utility but is at least 2 CMC with 1 toughness. DRS is a 1 drop split mana cost creature with 1/2 P/T and has 3 abilities that are all beyond amazing. Payin one mana to remove a card from a graveyard would be good on its own. Getting to bolt you opponent on top of it is just icing on the cake. It seems absurd how much is being packed into low CMC rares.....

My example Magus of the Bazaar is a creature that I feel is balanced at least in theory. Regardless of what you think of the utility it offers it's a rare utility creature who does what it's meant to and isn't strong in areas that it doesn't need to be. When compared to DRS you have 3 amazing abilities, a split mana cost which makes the card even more flexible and easy to play AND it's a 1/2 body. It seems too good in too many areas.... like I said.... if I was asked to guess the CMC without prior knowledge and was told that it was a top tier rare used in tournament play I'd still guess 2CMC or higher.

Utility creatures can have amazing utility... that's fine. I consider Magus of the Bazaar's utility to be amazing. Why does every utility creature need to have amazing utility, seemingly too low mana costs and a body that's good beyond necessity. I'd feel like DRS was still borderline OP even if it was a 0/1 and nothing else about it was different. It seems normal... cause it's been out so long that it's just generally accepted as where the curve is now.... but it and other creatures like it are really catalysts of drastic power creep. I guess R&D did say they wanted creatures to be better at one point tho.... they have succeeded....

[HPB_Eggo]

Goyf forms the evolutionary dead end of beatsticks and I think contributes heavily to what makes other beatsticks and creature-strategies unplayable.

The biggest issue with 'goyf isn't that it's the best beater, it's that it is both the best beater and the best wall in the format. If 'goyf was x/x or x+1/x+1 a lot of the issues with him being prevalent ruining a lot of creature-based aggro strategies would disappear.

[GreekAsTheGods]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...ly/feature/148

That link is pretty relevant here, ty sir. SFM is extremely comparible to Tinker. The main difference isn't in the mechanics of the cards themselves (SFM vs Tinker) it's in the support cards that currently exist. Tinker and SFM are both ridiculously low mana cost tutor/mana cheat cards, the main difference currently is that Artifacts have existed and have been strong since the beginning of MTG whereas Equipment came up in Mirrodin. Leaving SFM unbanned simply because her only synergy as of now lies in cheating Batterskull out on the 3rd turn is kind of counter-intuitive. The card's existence in any format outside of Vintage restricts every Equipment released from here on out. I'd rather see strong, competitive Equipments than have every Equipment balanced around the question "How OP will this be when SFM cheats it into play?"

Stomp out The design flaw, continue making powerful, relevant Equipment.

[Lemnear]

Equipment is a very narrow trait in M:TG so SFM will go nowhere the way of Tinker or Survival. WotC will just not print any good Equipments for the next years so the issue will one day be solved the way Tarmogoyf was: outclassed/on-par with other options.

[Barook]

The card's existence in any format outside of Vintage restricts every Equipment released from here on out. I'd rather see strong, competitive Equipments than have every Equipment balanced around the question "How OP will this be when SFM cheats it into play?"

Except it's banned in Modern and Wizards doesn't care about Legacy when making new cards.

If they want to print bonkers equipment, then SFM is no problem for them anymore.

[Rush80]

The trend is to un-ban cards. So I am expecting no ban or restriction whilst some cards may get unbanned.

Such as:
Black Vise
Frantic Search


The only card which has a remote possibility to be banned is Griselbrand on the basis of its similarity with Yawgmoth's Bargain.
However the format is so diverse now that I see no need to ban any candidate card.

[Mr Miagi]

I'd really like to play Frantic search in Mono blau como decks, but .. I see this card as one of the last coming off :/

But I really don't know what's holding them so long with Memory jar and Earthcraft

[Lemnear]

Yep, Just because Delver, Stifle and Wasteland need another good friend and the format need a second top-tier Mono-Blue combo deck. :/

[Barook]

The only card which has a remote possibility to be banned is Griselbrand on the basis of its similarity with Yawgmoth's Bargain.
However the format is so diverse now that I see no need to ban any candidate card.

If anything, S&T is being closer since it enables Griselbrand and other broken stuff.

But as the meta stands right now, I can't see anything banned anytime soon.

[Tylert]

From my point of view, the only card that currently requires some attention is Death rite Shaman.
Yes it would not be overpowered at 2 mana...
However it costs only 1 mana, an hybrid one for instance, and can be played in Green or black decks.
What makes him overpowered is the mana producing ability which allows to play Freely 3 or 4 color deck without really fearing color death.
Deathblade is a very good deck now mainly because of this card that enables to play all good cards without real mana problems. Wasteland used to keep in check greedy manabases. With This guy, it's not the case anymore.
It's also a reasonable clock (and even gives reach to decks), a life saver and graveyard hate...
The guy is just too good for 1 mana...

Maybe my point of view is biased because I play Death and Taxes and My deck hates this 1/2 mana dork...
"I wasteland your green mana!", "Ok, I now have access to two mana of any type...".
And this guy is a part of some of our worst matchups: Jund / Deathblade / Junk stoneblade / Elves

What's the point of view of other decks pilots??

[apple713]

The trend is to un-ban cards. So I am expecting no ban or restriction whilst some cards may get unbanned.

Such as:
Black Vise
Frantic Search


The only card which has a remote possibility to be banned is Griselbrand on the basis of its similarity with Yawgmoth's Bargain.
However the format is so diverse now that I see no need to ban any candidate card.

black vise will never come off the list - ever. it would create the paradox similar to mental misstep. everyone is either playing it, or playing against it. its great in singles, and crushes in multiples. It would be the ultimate kill to mana denial strategy and thats not something they support, as they have previously stated.

I'd really like to play Frantic search in Mono blau como decks, but .. I see this card as one of the last coming off :/

But I really don't know what's holding them so long with Memory jar and Earthcraft

frantic search is good but not that good cause its card disadvantage. It sucks in dredge cause it cost 3. Hopefully they arnt still durdling around on t3

[Bobmans]

frantic search is good but not that good cause its card disadvantage. It sucks in dredge cause it cost 3. Hopefully they arnt still durdling around on t3

Frantic Search would increase turn 2/3 combo for S&T. Plus it would perfectly fit Reanimate and High Tide strategies. Thus making strong combo decks stronger.

[Darkenslight]

If anything, S&T is being closer since it enables Griselbrand and other broken stuff.

But as the meta stands right now, I can't see anything banned anytime soon.

This would be my prediction. However, I'm expecting a ban on Shallow Grave and something irrelevant. Because Fuck Legacy, that's why.

[dontbiteitholmes]

My expectation = No changes

My hope = Earthcraft unbanned

Earthcraft is only playable in 3 decks.

1: Squirrelcraft, which is terrible.

2: Elves, which already has better options for going off.

3: Enchantress, where it enables a combo that is slightly better or worse than RIP + Helm depending on the matchup.

So Earthcraft would see little to no play but it being unbanned would show that WotC wants to continue removing irrelevant cards from the B&R list.

[Barook]

@Tylert: DRS is a stupid good card and I predict that it further penetrates the format.

But considering the numbers Brainstorm can put out without being banned, DRS is here to stay.

People just need to adapt and pack more removal. Stuff like Lavamancer or Punishing Fire does wonders against DRS, especially in conjunction with other removal to make sure absolutely nothing survives the hail of removal. Especially the Punishing Fire engine is underplayed right now, considering how much it wrecks fair decks.

This would be my prediction. However, I'm expecting a ban on Shallow Grave and something irrelevant. Because Fuck Legacy, that's why.

Since Tom LaPille is back - a gentleman's agreement on banning Tin Fins?