Isn't Seething Song a bit risky...moreso than usual, anyway?
Thanks for posting your list, alphastryk! I like Revoker instead of some of the shittier creatures you have filling out the deck though. It fills in the curve to make Seething Song better and D&T and iPainter both have shown that Revoker does work.
Is 19 lands really enough? All the other lists are running 20 (with no Seething Song).
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
Instead of Mauler and Shaman, what about Hound of Griselbrand?Originally Posted by alphastryk
'Stock' is up to 20 lands now? I thought it always used to be 18 for the hellbent versions...
So revokers over Mauler / Shaman? seems pretty reasonable, probably better than my plan.
The Werewolf/etc. Stompy decks that have been winning and top-8ing in the last ~10 months online have almost all been 20 lands (see mtgdecks.net). I just recently picked up Mono-Red Stompy and can't imagine playing 18 or 19 lands. 20 has seemed pretty much perfect in both x2 Chrome Mox or x3 Chrome Mox builds.
I've always run 18 or 19 lands. Back when I was using Seething Song, 18 was good, giving me 29 mana sources(18 lands, 4 Mox, 4 SSG, 3 Song), but since I've removed them I added in an extra land to give me 27 mana sources (19 land, 4 Mox, 4 SSG). I really don't think that running anything less than 4 Chrome Mox is smart as well.
Do you guys think a 2RR for 4/5 red creature has any value in this deck? It's unconditional, unlike the Werewolves or Hellbent dorks, which means you're never vulnerable to Bolt.
What if it had an activated ability that said 5RR: Win the game?
Ember Swallower could be good in this deck if there was a way to Monstrous him, or maybe that sexy Wildfire deck in the developing section that got buried. But 5RR is awfully hard to achieve for activation - in which case, you're probably better off with some other big body. I love love love Deus of Calamity and that doesn't really have a spot in this deck, and I think DoC is actually better.
Here's the card from the spoiler: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...0&d=1377576820
I've been tinkering around with a couple different creature bases. I'm liking Fire Imp a lot. The 1 mana difference between that and FTK can make a big difference with critters you want to hit early (Confidant MoR Stoneforge DRS etc) And I've also been liking Wrecking Ogre a lot. Not a terrible drop for 5. And with Moltensteel Dragon can pick up some turn 4 lethal damage shinnanegans.
Last edited by deakmana; 08-30-2013 at 08:29 PM.
New spoiler from Theros :
Stormbreath Dragon 3RR
Flying, Haste, Protection from white
Monstrosity 3 5RR
When becomes monstrous,it deals damage to each opponent equal to the number of cards in his hands.
4/4
So this is s slightly smaller thundermaw but protected from swords to plowshares wich is really relevant. There is also the plus of paying 5RR and making him a 7/7 but this dosn't really matter since it is not likely to happen.
I like the 4/4 with Pro white a lot with the current rise of DnT. I do see this guy seeing some space in mt Hellbent list.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
So I'll try to give back and share my experience @ SC Cincy this past weekend. Also want to give a shout out to Blastoderm as I absolutely love Moggcatcher/"Goblin" Stompy right now.
Obviously, I didn't top-8. But I do believe we are still amazingly well positioned and a better deck than Imperial Painter in the current meta. I wasn't planning on writing a report so please bare with me as I'll try to give a quick recap of meta, matchups and some "spectator experience."
My list-->
x4 Blood Moon
x4 Magus of the Moon
x4 Chalice of the Void
x2 Trinisphere
x1 Ensnaring Bridge
x1 Stone Rain
x2 Chaos Warp
x1 Umezawa's Jitte
x2 Chrome Mox
x4 Simian Spirit Guide
x1 Imperial Recruiter (grabs EVERYTHING)
x3 Phyrexian Revoker
x1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
x4 Moggcatcher
x3 Siege-Gang Commander
x1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
x2 Goblin Settler
x4 City of Traitors
x4 Ancient Tomb
x4 Cavern of Souls (Goblin or Human)
x8 Mountain
Sideboard
x4 Faerie Macabre
x4 Ratchet Bomb
x1 Powder Keg
x1 Defense Grid
x1 Ensnaring Bridge
x1 Phyrexian Revoker
x1 Vexing Shusher (oh look, a goblin!)
x1 Fortune Thief (MVP vs. the Merfolk list I played)
x1 Confusion in the Ranks (wanted x4 but couldn't find room)
Trial + Open -->
A friend and I met up with others Saturday night and we all played in the Legacy Trial.
Round 1 vs. 12post = 2-0
-First game lasted under 2 minutes as he scooped to turn 2 Blood Moon. Game 2 is pretty quick after I turn 1/2 an Imperial Recruiter into a Magus of the Moon.
Round 2 vs. RUG Delver = 2-0
-Took work. Luckily I've playtested this matchup to DEATH. Ran at least one spell into a Daze... played well but never really felt behind as thankfully opponent didn't have a hand full of spell pierce/daze/fow both games.
Round 3 vs. Shardless BUG = 0-2
-Bad luck and opponent was playing a few basics (who does that, lol!). Lost die roll in game 1 so then felt the pain of T1 Thoughtseize into FoW my Blood Moon into T2 Hymn into T3 Goyf = dead. Game 2 I realized he had basics as he fetched for a Swamp right away then we grind for a few turns then his 1-of SB artifact destruction takes out my Ensnaring Bridge so his two Goyfs swing for the win.
Round 4 vs. Enchantress = 2-0
-He was playing a Helm/RIP with Emrakul build so Anarchy would do very little here. Still, Trinisphere/Chalice/Revoker (on Helm) seal the deal.
--> so finished 3-1 and was happy with my play and deck choice... damn you Shardless BUG with basics!
Next day. Da Open.
Round 1 vs. Shardless BUG = 2-0
-He scoops Game 1 to a Turn 1 resolved Blood Moon. Game 2 I resolve a Chalice on 1 and an Ensnaring Bridge, I believe. The turn after I play a Moggcatcher he plays Jace and brainstorms so I Moggcatcher --> Siege-Gang EoT and shoot Jace on my turn. Then I follow with Kikijiki my Siege-Gang and overwhelm with 1/1s and *throwing* Goblins for two damage.
Round 2 vs. Storm = 2-1
-Middle game he goes off with 5 cards on turn 2 (scary!). The other games I win with a resolved Chalice. He tells me after game 3 that if I wouldn't have played the Chalice on 0 in Turn 1 and waited to Chalice on 1 I would have been likely dead from him going off.
Round 3 vs. Shardless BUG = 1-1-1 (vs. Andrew Tenjum <sp>: great player who went undefeated in Standard Swiss the day before)
-Wow, crazy games. I had to fight through THREE Ancestral Visions in BOTH games 1 and 2. Every Blood Moon met a FoW and the one or two times I was able to resolve a Magus of the Moon he had mana to float and then Abrupt Decays the Magus. So yeah fighting through all those cards caused a pretty long match and so we had under 5 minutes left for game 3 so I kept a Blood Moon/Ensnaring Bridge (turn 1) mostly to hedge myself from the loss. The Bridge kept me from dieing from two quick Goyfs.
*Following up with this match - we had quite the crowd. In game 1 after he had fired off his second Ancestral Vision and had a third one with time counters, he sees me play Moggcatcher. At this point we had a couple spectators and they (including Andrew) were like "what"... I smiled. He advances his board with more Strix and another Goyf. I Moggcatcher into Siege-Gang to block his Goyf(s)/Agents. He still feels pretty confidant as his flyers are getting through and he has insane card advantage on me thanks to the Visions/Cascades. I Moggcatcher into KikiJiki to copy the Siege-Gang and like EVERYONE'S jaws drop, LOL, and we get a few more spectators. I'm at 6 life with Andrew at like 16 and facing x3 Strix + Agent(s) + x2 Goyfs when one of his buddys asks if he's going to win this. Andrew goes, "um, I'm not sure, maybe not", LOL. But he does. He Hymns my singleton Jaya before I can play it and have no outs to the x2-3 Strix flyers (my mana & blockers were too busy shooting/blocking the Goyfs/Agents). In game 2 which I won, I went Moggcatcher into Goblin Settler (while not facing much pressure from a Strix and Agent) which also caused more jaw-dropping, lol, especially when I followed it with good o'l Kiki-Jiki and blew up all his lands then a Siege-Gang FTW - again the match still took quite awhile because yet again he fired off THREE Ancestral Visions. *We had such a big crowd right after the match that a bunch of guys bring Caleb Durwald over and fill him in. No clue if Caleb respects the deck enough for an article but from what I saw, chatter everywhere was positive which was nice to see respect for innovation (thanks Blasto).
Round 4 vs. Merfolk = 1-2
-Sucked. Game 1 I don't see a single red source outside of x2 Simian Spirit Guides - Turn 1 I saw FoW (removing Spell Pierce) and Wasteland on my Ancient Tomb so I'm putting my opponent on RUG Delver but was very wrong as I quickly died before seeing a Mountain/Mox. Game 2 I win because he can't answer my boarded-in Fortune Thief, LOL - his face while it was morphed was priceless. Game 3 was tough... if I made a single misplay it was here. I really don't know how I lost the game especially after Ratchet Bombing a bunch of 2cc Merfolk. But somehow I do as that damn "Merfolk Leveler" gains flying and gets me in two hits before I can get another Bomb up to 2 and finish him off (I ended up like 1/2 mana short from shooting him for the final 2 damage before dieing to the second attack by the big flying Merfolk aided by lords). Good experience I suppose but wondering if I made any bad plays/decision trees.
Round 5 vs. Sneak & Show = 0-2
-Yep, this sucked too. Game 1 I fight through at least 1 FoW and then he taps 4 for a Sneak Attack and passes turn. I'm holding a Chaos Warp with him having three cards left. I play roulette and Warp the Sneak Attack --> he hits a Scalding Tarn (*whew) BUT then next turn shows ANOTHER Sneak Attack and Emrakul in the 3/4 cards in his hand so I die to Annihilator trigger. Game 2 I mull to 5 on the play and meet yet another FoW. I revoker a Grislebrand and Sneak Attack. He bounces with that 1U blue instant and I lose.
---> so I drop @ 2-2-1 with a long drive ahead of me and friends to be social with.
/Thoughts
*Like I said above, I still think this deck is pretty damn good and arguably better than Imperial Painter. A friend that I made on Saturday night said he was playing Dragon Stompy on Sunday (think I gave him some good pointers as he was short on a few cards) and was 4-1 in the Open when I dropped... not sure how he finished but looks like it was outside of the top-16.
*Moggcatcher is as good as I expected if not better especially after a Chalice on 1 or in metas with few Lightning Bolts. Siege-Gang is the bees knees against Goyf as it gives you so much time to land an Ensnaring Bridge or copy it with Kiki-Jiki. As a 1-of, KikiJiki feels fine and not "win-more" - the haste and flexibility with Settler, in addition to SGC, gives you an edge, imo.
*More than 4 Ratchet Bombs/Powder Kegs in your 75 is a must, imo. I did quite a bit of testing against Merfolk/Goblins and the time it gives you (especially turn 1 w/ a sol land) by blowing up even a single 0/1/2cc permanent (though it's usually more than one) is exactly what you are looking for before landing a high-impact card like Moggcatcer/SGC. Pyroclasm (other 2/3 damage sweepers) just don't cut it against a Merfolk board with lords/some affinity lists/etc.
*Deck Changes --> If I play in another Open (or large paper tournament) in the near future, I'm thinking -1 Siege-Gang Commander, -1 Goblin Settler, and -1 Stone Rain but undecided what I would +3... probably 2 red cards (maybe a second Imperial Recruiter) and a third Chrome Mox.
I'd love to hear more stories/experience with "Goblin" Stompy and I plan on playing this again @ SC Indy in October.
Played a Goblin list to a 4-1 finish in a local tournament today.
3 snow-covered mountain
8 mountain
4 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb
4 magus of the moon
4 simian spirit guide
4 moggcatcher
3 siege-gang commander
1 jaya ballard, task mage
2 rakka mar
1 tuktuk scrapper
1 kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
4 chalice of the void
4 chrome mox
4 blood moon
3 trinisphere
3 bonfire of the damned
3 koth of the hammer
board
4 confusion in the ranks
4 phyrexian revoker
2 pyrokinesis
1 tuktuk scrapper
2 ratchet bomb
1 ensnaring bridge
1 trinisphere
Round 1: Goblins 2-0
New player, still makes quite a few mistakes, like forgetting to pay Echo on a Stingscourger, which would have been the attacker needed to kill me game 1. I win the game on 1 life. Second game a Ratchet Bomb buys me enough time to get Moggcatcher online. Landing a SGC each turn means I have more Goblins.
Round 2: Aggro Loam 0-2
Each game I land a Moon effect, but have nothing to follow it up, giving him enough time to cast Devastating Dreams 2-3 times each game with Loam online (game 1: Mox Diamond, game 2: basic Forest), leaving me without a board and dying to the first creature he casts.
Round 3: Goblins 2-0
Both games end with a fast Moggcatcher that doesn't get answered. Second game was especially brutal. I keep a hand with 2x Moggcatcher and 4 mana on turn two. First Moggcatcher dies to Pyrokinesis. Second one lives and just for giggles i had drawn a Pyrokinesis of my own, meaning the Moggcatcher was looking at a 1/1 Token left behind by a War Marshal but otherwise the board was empty.
Round 4: BUG Temp 2-1
Yey, first tempo deck! First game I land a quick moon effect and he scoops after I show him SGC/Kiki. Second game he starts with T1 Fetchland, DRS. I have T1 Moon which resolves. He uses his only DRS activation to land a Delver. On his next turn the Delver flips and starts to beat down. The only card I draw to interact is a Bonfire, but he has the Force, leaving me to watch the Delver killing me. *frown* Third game goes more to plan. I go first. T1 Moon eats a Force, T2 Trini sticks, which means he has absolutely no way to stop the T3 Moon from resolving. He scoops.
Round 5: Esper 2-0
Game 1 he has a fast Batterskull, but I topdeck the single Scrapper. I stick a Moon effect, he dies with one Island and a lot of Mountains. Don't remember if SGC/Kiki or Koth killed him. Game 2 I have T1 Chalice, he has the T2 Stoneforge again. T2 Magus lands. He has two basics so he tries to find a Disenchant effect for the Chalice while I try to get enough creatures on the table to not die to Batterskull. I find Moggcatcher, he only finds more Mountains and he dies before ever seeing one of his four answers to Chalice.
Loved the deck, was a blast to play. Never lost a game where I got to activate Moggcatcher. The deck especially impressed me against the decks that I was a bit afraid of. 4-1 for a deck designed to beat Tempo/Combo facing only one Tempo deck was more than satisfying. If I had had access to one, I would probably play a Goblin Settler instead of the Jaya. Never drew her, boarded her out quite often. Especially against Esper I would have even preferred to search for Settler to lock him out of Mana completely instead of having to go pure aggro with SGC, leaving him with several turns to find an out (he had over 40 life due to his Batterskull). Sometimes I had quite a bit of trouble to get to four mana due to my own Blood Moons. Perhaps going up to 20 land and cutting a Chrome Mox is the best way to go, but I soooo love to maximize the chance of landing T1 Moon/Chalice/Trini. Not quite sure about the Rakka Mars. I see their usefulness on paper, but the two times I drew one, it always was the weakest card in my hand and found itself getting pitched to Chrome Mox.
I have to say Imperial Recruiter indeed does look sexy in this shell...
Nice to see 2 decent reports with the Goblin list! I'm still in love with Moggcatcher myself, but haven't been able to get to a Legacy event for some time now.
Trying to blend Koth + Wolves + Dragons:
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Kargan Dragonlord
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Hanweir Watchkeep
4 Hound of Griselbrand
3 Thundermaw Hellkite
3 Koth of the Hammer
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Chrome Mox
This is kind of like the old Dragon builds, except I'm looking to Koth as acceleration for the Hellkite. I was debating between Bonfire of the Damned/Pyrokinesis/Magma Jet/Kargan/Vexing Shusher or Powder Keg. I picked Kargan because I can use its level up as a source of damage without flipping the Watchkeep. Thoughts?
A question for those that play the "goblin" version: Why not a singleton Krenko? It could be a nice combo with siege gang (or war marshall too!)
Bye
In my brief experience, Krenko is a win-more card that isnt good on its own. He doesn't have Haste, so he cannot affect the board until the next turn. SGC has an immediate board presence by creating tokens. SGC+KikiJiki creates 3 tokens per turn, 1 of which is the SGC token. SGC+Krenko makes 2 tokens per turn on a naked board state, but can come out ahead if you don't bombard anything for 3 turns. KikiJiki+Krenko isnt a thing.
My current goblin setup is:
4 x Chalice of the void
3 x Chrome Mox
2 x Trinisphere
1 x Umezawa's Jitte
2 x Goblin Settler
2 x Imperial Recruiter
1 x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 x Magus of the moon
4 x Moggcatcher
2 x Phyrexian Revoker
2 x Siege-gang Commander
4 x Simian Spirit Guide
1 x Tuktuk Scrapper
3 x Blood Moon
4 x Ancient Tomb
4 x City of traitors
4 x Cavern of souls
8 x Mountain
3 x Koth of the Hammer
3 x Bonfire of the damned
List worked well so far but its getting hard to find cards to "slim". I would REALLY love a third recruiter since one of the few issues this deck have is after getting a lock piece of 2 down you need an actual threat.
There have been times when you bombed on threats.
i can also see Orcish settler in the list as a one off, but then again... theres like a milion cards you could use as one offs :P
a second Jitte would also be a nice addition or perhaps a sword.
I choose the 2 settlers since if you run one and actually draw it it can be countered under blood moon, and if they find an answer for the first one i love to have a second with catcher.
Personally, I'd drop the Bonfires for other cards. I really haven't been impressed by it recently.
@jafar: Also, we don't have enough of a goblin focus to make Krenko good. And, like it was said already, he needs haste to be any good as well.
@sisyphos: With SGC in play you can prevent batterskull lifelink by sacrificing the token before damage. Also useful against Jitte.
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