All B/R update speculation.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Goblins are doing very well without the card, the white splash has helped us quite a large amount.

I played goblins in onslaught, I have my Skullclamp set still from when it was first printed and I would be happy to out the two together again. Like old lovers, together at last. But I am not sure if it would take off like it did back then.

Granted though the card pool was not what is is now back then, Abrupt Decay was not a thing, as well as Dredge and whatnot. So it may be balanced. I personally do not think it will be balanced but my affection for the card has not died and I am not against it being set lose.

That said, goblins would rise again.

I'd be more concerned with Affinity than Goblins if Skullclamp was unbanned. I would totally play that deck too, I love me some hot Skullclamp action.

[Dice_Box]

I'd be more concerned with Affinity than Goblins if Skullclamp was unbanned. I would totally play that deck too, I love me some hot Skullclamp action.

Affinity is the deck that got the card banned. That said it was the fastest deck in the format at the time, even with Clamp it would not be faster than some of the combo decks out now. Also there is far more cheap Art hate now, add things like Bombs that take out everything of a chosen CMC and I don't see Affinity running away like it did.

Times have changed. I am not sure how clamp would fit into the format right now, but I know Affinity that it would speed up a good amount of decks. For better or for worse I an interested in the effects that would have. Even though I do not feel it's safe.

The issue would arise when Control started using it. Goblins already runs mana control but this thing on some Angel tokens and a sac outlet might cause an issue.

Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.

[Lemnear]

Because Elves / Goblins / Lingering Souls + Skullclamp is anything we need in Legacy. *sarcasm*

[Gheizen64]

Clamp is seriously way too good. I mean, elves! is already a deck. Also imagine that in Maverick. It blows every other kind of draw engine out of the water. Or in Jund. Or even in control with Lingering Souls or Squadron Hawk WOOOOO. Veteran explorer would totally be my nigga too.
At least i could run my old Clampstorm deck again

4 Dark ritual
4 Memnite
4 Clamp
4 Cull the Weak
4 Skullclamp
4 Overeager Apprentice
3 Plunge into Darkness
4 Priest of Gyx
4 Ornithopter
2 Tendril of Agony
3 Night's Whisper
4 Chrome Mox
4 Mox Opal
4 Vault of Whispers
8 Swamps

Loved this when it was legal (well not exactly like this), for like 2 months in extended.

[Barook]

Clamp is seriously way too good. I mean, elves! is already a deck. Also imagine that in Maverick. It blows every other kind of draw engine out of the water. Or in Jund. Or even in control with Lingering Souls or Squadron Hawk WOOOOO. Veteran explorer would totally be my nigga too.

I doubt that Maverick could do anything broken with it. Cheap creatures, token generators or x/1 utility creatures like Hawk and Veteran Explorer would be your best bet to abuse it.

Even without broken engines, it would make every non-StP removal suck since every 1-for-1 trade turns into a 3-for-1 for the low, low cost of . Totally not broken.

[swoop]

K. @bishonen_
Can we please unban #skullclamp @mtgaaron
Aaron Forsythe @mtgaaron

@bishonen_ The Magic 8 Ball says this is highly unlikely.


Since tweet embedding doesnt work :(

[Megadeus]

I would play Nic Fit like a MoFo if Clamp Were Unbanned. Clamiping up Explorers, used up E Witnesses. Hell I would probably play Deranged Hermit again.

[Zombie]

I would play Nic Fit like a MoFo if Clamp Were Unbanned. Clamiping up Explorers, used up E Witnesses. Hell I would probably play Deranged Hermit again.

You would've been Hoofed long, long before any of that happened.

[Justin]

Seriously, anyone who seriously thinks that Skullclamp should be legal must not have played against it back in 2004 when it was legal. Almost every creature-based aggro and mid-range deck would want four of them.

[Lord Seth]

Which brings up an interesting point: Where does "fair" end and "unfair" start?

Let's remember that whether a deck is considered fair or unfair isn't really a statement of whether it's good. The usual way to define it is that an "unfair" deck is one that wins on a different "axis" than normal, which usually means combo decks. So for some examples...

Unfair decks: Ad Nauseam Tendrils, Show and Tell, Dredge, Combo Elves
Fair decks: RUG Delver, Jund, Stone-Blade, Goblins

Again, this isn't whether the decks are good or not. Cheeri0s would be considered unfair, but it's not a particularly great deck.

[Zilla]

Seriously, anyone who seriously thinks that Skullclamp should be legal must not have played against it back in 2004 when it was legal. Almost every creature-based aggro and mid-range deck would want four of them.

Are you referring to Legacy when it was still 1.5? Because in that format Skullclamp was legal, and was neither prevalent nor degenerate. Top contenders in that era were Landstill with Mana Drain, MUD with Bazaar, Dragon with Worldgorger, and Food Chain Goblins with Recruiter. In terms of raw power level, Skullclamp decks were woefully outmatched in that metagame.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Are you referring to Legacy when it was still 1.5? Because in that format Skullclamp was legal, and was neither prevalent nor degenerate. Top contenders in that era were Landstill with Mana Drain, MUD with Bazaar, Dragon with Worldgorger, and Food Chain Goblins with Recruiter. In terms of raw power level, Skullclamp decks were woefully outmatched in that metagame.

Ahem ahem ahem.

In seriousness that's because Workshop decks and Bazaar-Dragon were legal. In a format already overloaded with durdly bullshit Skullclamp would be absurdly obnoxious and boring.

[Zombie]

Let's remember that whether a deck is considered fair or unfair isn't really a statement of whether it's good. The usual way to define it is that an "unfair" deck is one that wins on a different "axis" than normal, which usually means combo decks. So for some examples...

Unfair decks: Ad Nauseam Tendrils, Show and Tell, Dredge, Combo Elves
Fair decks: RUG Delver, Jund, Stone-Blade, Goblins

Again, this isn't whether the decks are good or not. Cheeri0s would be considered unfair, but it's not a particularly great deck.

Hitting you when green dudes is unfair? Better call Goyf ;) jk.

One of the best definitions for a combo deck I've heard is a deck that can accelerate itself from the setup phase to a strong endgame within the space of a single turn. Some random deck could swing with Hoof & pals on turn 7. Elves just turns the setup situation into a game-winning position quickly.

[Zilla]

Ahem ahem ahem.

In seriousness that's because Workshop decks and Bazaar-Dragon were legal. In a format already overloaded with durdly bullshit Skullclamp would be absurdly obnoxious and boring.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. I wasn't arguing that Skullclamp wouldn't be too powerful/annoying for this metagame. I don't have strong feelings one way or the other on that point. I was simply asserting that anyone who played against it in 2004 knows it wasn't particularly strong, given the rest of the field at that time.

[Dice_Box]

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. I wasn't arguing that Skullclamp wouldn't be too powerful/annoying for this metagame. I don't have strong feelings one way or the other on that point. I was simply asserting that anyone who played against it in 2004 knows it wasn't particularly strong, given the rest of the field at that time.

It was very strong in the decks that suited it at the time. As a Goblin player that card was something that pushed the bounds of what the deck felt like it was made to do. Affinity felt like it had a fire under its ass and was by far the hardest deck to vs from an Aggro standpoint.

As I have said before, I do not know if clamp would be safe, but I do know it would change the format. It would be like making goblins Food Chain powered again. Thats just one deck. Most of the other decks running around do not want to throw their critters to the wind to draw. They run utility critters and would rather keep them alive. That means there would be a shift with decks like Affinity making its way into the limelight again. Would the deck be backbreaking? I have no idea but it would be fun to see a change.

[Amon Amarth]

Unbanning Skullclamp does make "pure" aggro decks a hell of a lot more viable. Where most of the format seems to consist of durdly, boring bullshit and some combo, Skullclamp would certainly make things more exciting/diverse. It's basically a card for decks with lots of dorks and is particularly good in the linear aggro decks: Elves, Goblins and Affinity. There might be a combo deck (KoboldClamp?) that abuses it but I don't think it's that much better, if at all, than anything that's currently available.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Unbanning Skullclamp does make "pure" aggro decks a hell of a lot more viable. Where most of the format seems to consist of durdly, boring bullshit and some combo, Skullclamp would certainly make things more exciting/diverse. It's basically a card for decks with lots of dorks and is particularly good in the linear aggro decks: Elves, Goblins and Affinity. There might be a combo deck (KoboldClamp?) that abuses it but I don't think it's that much better, if at all, than anything that's currently available.

You guys are off your shit. Obviously no-one thinking Skullclamp is okay has ever really played it. I'm pretty sure pauper Elf-Clamp could beat the pants off of most Legacy decks. If you take Legacy Elves and add Skullclamp things get stupid really quick. Don't even get me started on every other deck that could abuse Clamp. Clamp is a textbook bannable card. It goes in aggro (goblins), control (fetch it with Stoneforge + equip it to spirits), and combo (elves) and when it hits the board it completely swings the game.

[Dice_Box]

You guys are off your shit. Obviously no-one thinking Skullclamp is okay has ever really played it. I'm pretty sure pauper Elf-Clamp could beat the pants off of most Legacy decks. If you take Legacy Elves and add Skullclamp things get stupid really quick. Don't even get me started on every other deck that could abuse Clamp. Clamp is a textbook bannable card. It goes in aggro (goblins), control (fetch it with Stoneforge + equip it to spirits), and combo (elves) and when it hits the board it completely swings the game.

I have played it, I still have my 4 from when it was legal. Be careful about making sweeping claims like that because not all of use a fools and some of us do indeed have a working knowledge of the 04 meta. I know what it was like, I was there. Again I have said over and over I do not think it is safe, but dam it would be good to have at least 3 months where the meta changed up a touch.

Also you mention putting it in elves. I do not think I would put clamp in my elves deck. I would rather run Library over Clamp because I quite like my 3ed turn wins off a Hoof and would not enjoy throwing my critters into the wind like that. Goblins on the other hand, I would totally rebuild my deck from the ground up and play them like they were played back then.

[Lemnear]

Dice_Box, Skullclamp is a Glimpse on crack once you hit turn 3 and I would throw in a playset immediately if it gets unbanned.

I just want to mention that Genesis Chamber + Skullclamp + Vault Skirge + Memnite + Ornithopter + Cranial Plating + Signal Pest + Gaea's Cradle rapes Vintage atm. I do not want to see that deck in Legacy just with Sol-Lands instead of Workshops

[dontbiteitholmes]

I have played it, I still have my 4 from when it was legal. Be careful about making sweeping claims like that because not all of use a fools and some of us do indeed have a working knowledge of the 04 meta. I know what it was like, I was there. Again I have said over and over I do not think it is safe, but dam it would be good to have at least 3 months where the meta changed up a touch.

Also you mention putting it in elves. I do not think I would put clamp in my elves deck. I would rather run Library over Clamp because I quite like my 3ed turn wins off a Hoof and would not enjoy throwing my critters into the wind like that. Goblins on the other hand, I would totally rebuild my deck from the ground up and play them like they were played back then.

Playing Skullclamp in Standard when Mirrodin block wasn't even fully formed doesn't even begin to get at it's real power level. You obviously don't grasp the power of clamp. You aren't "throwing your creatures into the wind" you are going infinite with a quickness, especially considering Clamp lets you play Wirewood Herald to make sure you don't whiff. Oh my god, nothing can compare to the opponents face when you slap Clamp on Herald and search up whatever Elf is about to make you go infi while drawing 2 cards.