Hey guys.
I guess we all have played creeping tar pit for While but i really have second thoughts about the card. Everytime i need it (often vs planeswalkers) i feel its a risky move to activate it, and risk its going to the yard. From there its a
Very slow plan. What im Playing atm is punishing fire, ee and Worm harvest the last one in my opinion is very good vs planeswalkers.
Also the card actually make their creature removal spells a little usefull game1 instead of just dead cards.
Am i the only one thinking of cutting that card?
Since July and Dark Depths/Stage, most of us said goodbye to Creeping Tar Pit.
Thanks a lot. Ive Seen the new combo in lands, but didt see it replaced tar pit. (In some
Builds)
I don’t normally do this, but I decided to write up a short tournament report from the weekly legacy night. I ended up playing the R/G lands deck last night at the weekly local legacy tournament. I have slowly been assembling the deck over the last two weeks and was able to borrow the last 5 cards needed. Thanks Dave and Jeff.
The list is a modified list of Kurt Spiess top 16 build from SCG Philly.
+1 Manabond, +1 Riftstone Portal, +1 Ghost Quarter, -1 Rishadan Port, -1 Crop Rotation, -1 Bojuka Bog.
I wasn’t a huge fan of the original sideboard so I reworked it a little:
+3 Krosan Grip, +1 Crop Rotation, +1 Bojuka Bog, +1 Karakas, +1 Raging Ravine, -3 Seal of Primordium, -1 Trinisphere, -1 Chalice of the Void, -1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Dark Depths
I get a couple practices games in with elves before the tournament starts; it feels like an awkward matchup at best.
Round One – Storm. We talk a little before we start, he seems like a nice guy but claims that he as several legacy decks but does not play that much. Ok, that’s strange. I tell him that this is a new deck for me, so please bear with me as I may take some time to figure out my lines of play. We continue to have friendly banter through the match.
Game 1: He wins the die roll and drops a Tropical Island, pass. I play an Exploration into a Thespian Stage. He drops a fetch, then Brainstorm/Ponders, fetch for Underground Sea. Pass. I drop two lands, A Dark Depths and Rishadan Port. I have the choice to port him during his turn or go for a 20/20 Gerry Thompson Token (I hate this token, need to find on original). I decide for the token. It didn’t matter. I get a taste of tendrils for 30ish. He could have easily killed me through a port activation.
Game 2: This game goes long. I keep a hand with wasteland and port and loam. I draw a sphere on the third turn and drop it, I start working on his manabase with port activations and wastelands and he can’t recover as I have functionally locked him out of the game. He scoops it up.
Game 3: Turn two sphere, turn three sphere, turn 4 Ethersworn Canonist. GG
1-0 (2-1)
Round Two – RUG Delver. We talk a little before; he seems like a nice guy but claims that he just started playing legacy, riiiggghhhttt. During the first couple turns of the game one you could easily determine this guy as a competent player. I give him two months till he starts to terrorize the store with that deck. I go thought the song and dance about how this could take some time for me because it’s a new deck the interactions are strange.
Game 1. The beginning of the game is a little fuzzy, I tried to punishing fire a first turn delver that gets dazed. There was some cantripping on his end and a couple of missed triggers. Basically what happens is that I have a Thespain Stage, Maze of Ith and two Mox Diamonds out, he has a fetch and a trop and a flipped delver. He wastes my maze I respond by casting Crop Rotation which resolves and I get Dark Depths. Now I have to wait to play around Stifle. He makes a mistake a turn later and cracks his fetchland while tapped out. In response I make a 20/20 Gerry T. GG
Game 2. He goes turn one mongoose. I turn one Exploration and we both start grinding, I eventually get my loam engine online then I end up at four when he dies to my 20/20 Gerry T. This game wasn’t that interesting, just really grindy. I have two mazes for his two goyfs. I can’t easily answer the mongoose, finally dredged the depths to get there. He ended up stifling one of my fetchlands which I thing was a huge mistake. People seem to forget that you can stifle Maze of Ith.
2-0 (4-1)
Round 3 – 12 Post. My opponent has been playing legacy for a while and we chit chat about random stuff. I go through the song and dance about this being a new deck for me. Our games were not interesting or fun.
Game 1: I lock her out, port her basic lands. The only thing of relevance that she does is Bojuka Bog some of my graveyard away, but it didn’t matter as I was hedging against it with an extra loam and wasteland in my hand. I was a little too quick for her to interact.
Game 2: Was much of the same as game 1. I Ghost Quarter her basics and establish the lock and win with the Gerry T Token.
3-0 (6-1)
Round 4 Slivers – WHAT is this? I feel bad saying this with being undefended on the night but once again I tell my opponent to bear with me because this is a new deck for me. This sliver deck can pile on damage soooo fast and crystalline sliver makes it difficult to interact with their creatures. I am not looking forward to this match
Game 1. I cast gamble three times. He pulls the tutored card for the first two gambles. But I got to keep my manabond for the last gamble. With a couple of timely dredges I was able to assembly the tabernacle lock. GG
Game 2 and 3. I get rolled, turn one Vial into a really aggressive start both games while I don’t have the time to assembly a G.Chasm lock. The third game was close, but was unable to find a loam in time to lock him up.
3-1 (7-3) on the night which I am pretty happy with for being my first tournament with the Lands deck.
Gamble was cast 12 times and I only lost 3 of the cards tutored.
Overall I really like the deck a lot. I am going to have to find the last cards for the deck so that I can play this in DC.
Nice report, and good job on your first event with the deck. Like you said, get rid of that Gerry T. Token and you're set ;)Originally Posted by Rampart
What it takes to be a pimp:
1. Knowing the right people.
2. Have the money
Not one or the other, but both.
The fastest way to become a millionare is to start with a billion dollars, then start collecting magic cards, eh? - dry cereal
Nice tourny report. You don't really need to play around Stifle if you have nothing else to do with the mana. You should Stage-Depths into Stifle because Stifle can only stop the Stage's copy ability. Once it becomes a Dark Depths Stifle won't do anything because the 0-counter trigger will just trigger again if it gets countered.
Thanks, I found that out after the second round. I miss-impetrated the wording on the card and didn't read the previous rulings on DD. The T-Stage/DD interaction its really a strange series of triggers.
Nice report Rampart. I've been wanting to cram a Riftstone Portal into my main and haven't really figured out what I can afford to drop - Riftstone Portal is just great against Moon effects or the rare flooding of non-manaproducing lands and plays so nicely with Mox Diamond. If anything, its the Tabernacle that I want to cut, as its rare that Tabernacle does something for me that Glacial Chasm didn't do anyways.
I actually don't like cutting Crop Rotation, because having 8 instant-speed tutors is part of what makes RG ComboLands so consistent.
I really like the tabernacle while I was playing, its really your only answer to a few cards such as Nimble mongoose, Crystalline Sliver, and its really good against some archetypes like, Goblins, Elves (if you can get it early enough), D&T. Now if you meta is filled with a bunch of combo I would move it to the sideboard, I would be afraid to cut if from your seventy five. Also with the lack of Toleria west to tutor for the land you need I like having two options for major creature control.
I "moved" the Bojuka Bog to the sideboard to make space for the Riftstone portal, which was an all-star in correcting all the colorless mana producers that I had.
I didn't cut a Crop Rotation, just moved one to my sideboard. I still think you need access to three Rotation to make the deck quick enough against the combo matchup, but its not great against decks where you have time to find you answers. I am not sure if I want to change back a manabond for a crop rotation, but it is something I should look at the more I play this deck. I don't understand your 8 instant-speed tutor comment thought. Gamble is a sorcery.
sorry, brainfart on the instant-speed. I play both Lands and 12Post, and in 12Post I run Expedition Map also (which usually just sits there waiting to get popped), so honest mistake. I still stand by comment at wanting 8 tutors. It might be personal preference, but Crop Rotation is also so good against Wasteland, which I run into a lot, that I can't imagine cutting them to 3.
I'm going to keep tooling around with Riftstone Portal and Bog vs. Tabernacle - the thing about Tabernacle is that I never seem to get the mileage out of it, and against Gobbos it comes down to Piledriver vs. Krenko as the threat. Against other fair decks like D&T, the threat of Tabernacle is often enough to keep them from overextending, which I have found to be sufficient to go find Stage-Depths and one-shot them. It might also work to cut a Cycling land or a Port.
cycling land: maybe.It might also work to cut a Cycling land or a Port.
Port: WHAT THE HELL!
If your seriously thinking of cutting tabernacle, and not getting enough from it, I think your either doing it wrong, or ur meta doesnt contain any creatures.
Rampart cut a Port too (or at least moved it to the sideboard, same as I'm considering), though I think after durdling a little this afternoon, the Riftstone Portal just belongs in the side, as a Moon effect isnt nearly as annoying as I originally thought it to be.
I've been playing Combolands with a focus on consistency over control, so Chasm has gotten me most of the way there anyways (buying me enough time to combo out). I'm not 100% sure that Tabernacle belongs in the main vs. the sideboard in this case.
My quest to 4-0 the Legacy Night continues (hint: didn’t get there)
I got the last 5 cards in the mail I needed to finish my R/G lands, sleeved them up and was ready to play some legacy. I made some slight changes from last week. I took a Manabond out and added a Crop Rotation. With the crop rotation out of my sideboard I added a Crucible of Worlds.
Deck:
Spells
4x Exploration
4x Life from the loam
3x Crop Rotation
2x Manabond
4x Punishing Fire
4x Gamble
4x Mox Diamond
Lands
4x Wasteland
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
4x Maze of Ith
4x Thespian Stage
3x Tranquil Thicket
3x Rishadan Port
2x Taiga
2x Dark Depths
1x Savannah
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Riftstone Portal
Sideboard
4x Sphere of Resistance
3x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Krosan Grip
1x Karakas
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Raging Ravine
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Dark Depths
Round 1 – Death and Taxes – I am not going to be able to do these two games justice.
Game 1 – We both know what each other is on. He won the roll and went MOM into Stoneforge Mystic get B-Skull. I was able to crop rotate an early Tablernacle and start to establish my board state. He is stuck at two lands forever with no Aether Vial and I am porting during his upkeep when I can. I end up assembly the DD/Stage and I have PFire in my hand to his MOM, B-Skull and two lands. I am at 8 and he is approximately at 36 (lol.) He ends up attaching, in response I PFire the MOM, MOM gives B-skull pro-black which ends up beating me to four life. I make a 20/20 token at the end of his turn. During my turn I dredge loam, finally pull a maze. At this point in the game I start to turn the corner over several turns is effectively stop all his creatures and establish control, clogging up the board state until I finally draw at Manabond and dump 10 lands on the table on one turn, I eventually PFire him out of the game. I ended the Game at 40 life, he got rid of Merit Lage 4 times. This was the coolest game of the night.
Game 2 – My opponent mulligan’s to five and starts off with plains into Aether Vial. Next turn he goes Stoneforge Mystic getting B-Skull. I take a mulligan and go land into grove to PFire the Stoneforge Mystic. His next series of plays was to get vial up to three as he was dropping serra’s avengers, three toughness is surprising annoying. I end up getting two Maze of Ith’s for his two avengers and end up PFiring everything else out till he drops fiend hunter. OH NO, death by fiend hunter is at hand. I fall to 1. I finally dredge Glacial Chasm, I am worried as I don’t have an exploration out, and at one life I can’t sustain it for more than 3 to 4 turns, but none of that matter because he snap quits once I target it with Loam. Ok.
1-0 (2-0)
Round 2 – Manaless Dredge
Game 1 – I win the dice roll and keep a pretty good hand against dredge (thought he was on LED dredge not manaless) all that changes when he reveals a chancellor of the annex as a pre-game effect. Oh crap, what’s the game plan against this craziness? I get tabernacle out on turn two to lock him off the slow creature beat down plan, he starts the dredging process and we have to work through a couple weird triggers as a result to the tabernacle, neither shadow’s and other randomness. Once a B-Spy is revealed, I know what I need to do. I have a Crop Rotation and a Loam in my hand, with and exploration out which allows me to assemble the Glacial Chasm to lock the game out. But I made a mistake, my opponents ends up Cabal Therapying me, I think for a minute and let it resolver, absolutely sure that he is not going to name Crop Rotation, he names Crop Rotation, I lose that turn. I suck.
Game 2 – yeah, I decide to draw. My seven is terrible so I mulligan to a really strong hand. On my turn two I end up Crop Rotating for a tabernacle and dropping a sphere of resistance in to play effectively locking him out of combo. I make a mistake where he starts casting G-Probes and I forget that he has to pay for them, David Price catches the second one and mentions it. The game drags on for a while as he starts beating me down with a pair of Icorids, I fall to eight life and draw Crop Rotation (thank you sweet baby Jesus) I crop into Bojuka Bog and wipe his board (aka his graveyard). The next turn I dredge into a wasteland. I explain to him that I am going to lock him out of his graveyard for the rest of the game with Loam, Bog, and Waste. The sphere of resistance locks him out of spells, do you want to move to the next game? We shuffle up and head to game three.
Game 3 – I am on the play again. He pre-effects me with a Leyline of Sancity (ok?) and a chancellor trigger. I drop a turn two sphere of resistance with a Mox Diamond through the chancellor trigger. Next turn I drop an Eithersworn Canonist. The following turn a cast Crop Rotation and make a 20/20. The look on his face was priceless, apparently he didn’t realize that was something you can do.
2-0 (4-1)
Round 3 – SLIVERS REMATCH
Game 1 – My Opponent wins the role and goes one drop sliver off an Undiscovered Paradise. I drop an Exploration into a Crop Rotation into a tabernacle. Go. His sliver dies (Undiscovered Paradise bounce effect that occurs during the untap step so he can’t pay for the sliver) the next turn I drop two lands gamble for life from the loam which summons a quick concession.
Game 2 – My opponent drops a turn one vial off a land, I waste the land. He ticks his vial up and drops another land. I cast Exploration then play a land to gamble for tabernacle (I lose a PFire) drop the tabernacle. He puts a crystalline sliver into play, I play life from the loam, waste his other land. End of the turns he vials in meddling mage naming wasteland, I tell him he can’t name a land, then he names Life from the Loam. During his up keep the sliver dies and the mage stays, then I PFire it to death. He passes the turn and I assemble the hard waste lock.
Revenge completed
3-0 (6-1)
Round 4 – BUG Delver.
Game 1 – My Opponent mulligan’s to four, land delver go, I waste. He drops a U-Sea, attacked, go. I drop a grove and PFire the delver, the PFire gets dazed. Delver flips, attacks, and he wastes the grove. I play another grove then a Mox Diamond, return PFire, PFire delver, it resolves, go. The game ends quickly in two turns as I start loaming and drop a manabond, the writing in on the wall and we go to the game two.
Game 2 – He starts off with a Nihil Spellbomb, into a DRS, he was able to daze my PFire, Force of Will my Crop Rotation, Hymn the two cards that I need to win, waste my tabernacle and drop a lillana. To be honest that game was really rough for me, he basically dismantled everything in a couple of turns, I was playing to my outs and was able to get a dark depths out, I nut drew a crop rotation and was able to assemble the Stage/DD combo to his lillana of the veil on 7 counters, and spellbomb. We then spend some time talking about what the potential outs where, basically he needed a wasteland or another Lillana of the Veil. He ultimated Lilly, in response I made the token, the pile split was the token and everything else (mox and two lands), I took the token, he popped the bomb and dropped the Lilliana, then dropped a deathrite shaman. On to game three (yes, he did draw the lilly of the bomb)
Game 3 - I go first turn manabond, which gets force of willed. He goes delver, I waste his sea. He draws, plays a fetch and drops a DRS, pass, I drop a Mox Diamond, Gamble for DD (I had stage in my hand, if he hits any of the combo land pieces I drop a mana producing land and cast loam to put them back into my hand, he pulls a random useless land) I drop Maze of Ith. pass. Delver flips, maze gets wasted, smack for three. I play a DD and pass, I get domed for two at the end of the turn by DRS. He plays land then a Tarmogoyf, attacks for three. Pass. I drop the Stage, and now have a decision to make; he has two/three cards in his hand. I haven’t seen any ponders this game yet and only one brainstorm. I can make the token now and play around his three wastelands, or I can wait and play around the two Lillana of the Veil. He currently only has two lands and a DRS. I figure it would be easier for him to dig for the waste, so I make the token now. He draws and drops the lilly, edicts me, swing with the dudes. And the game is over the following turn.
3-1 (7-3)
I like the switch from the manabond to the Crop Rotation, while I believe that manabond is a more “powerful” card the crop rotation, the flexability that Crop Rotation give in the deck is hard to match. Oh and Tabernacle was the best card in my deck today.
I believe you were the one who suggested Geist of St. Traft in the board. Did that prove to be ineffective, or is Bob vs. Geist a meta call?
What do you side Sphere of Resistance in for? Some of us on this thread were discussing Thalia so we're not cold to an EOT Hurkyl's Recall/Rebuild. What are your thoughts on this?
Hi guys.
Just wanted to share my recent list for discussion:
Land (36)
1x Academy Ruins
1x Bayou
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Dark Depths
1x Glacial Chasm
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Karakas
3x Maze of Ith
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Riftstone Portal
4x Rishadan Port
1x Savannah
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1x Thespian's Stage
2x Tolaria West
2x Tranquil Thicket
3x Tropical Island
1x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
Instant (10)
3x Crop Rotation
1x Enlightened Tutor
3x Intuition
3x Punishing Fire
Artifact (6)
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Engineered Explosives
4x Mox Diamond
Sorcery (4)
4x Life from the Loam
Enchantment (4)
4x Exploration
Sideboard (15)
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Ashen Rider
1x Chalice of the Void
4x Dark Confidant
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Trinisphere
My latest changes:
-1 Forest: Since i've cut the Krosan Grib's from by sideboard, the Forest seemed unnecessary. (I know, i know - i'll one day be punished gruesomely by a Blood Moon)
-1 Manabond: Well, i really never liked this card. It sometimes (read: almost never) gave an explosive start. Also i sucks to have to 'play' Thicket and Tolaria.
-1 Taiga: Well, since the inclusion of E.Tutor to main i wanted to go up a fetch to be able to get a Savannah on T1 and Taiga got the Axe.
+1 Riftstone Portal: Haven't tried this yet, but i have wanted to for a long time. It's a good target for both Mox and Crop. It also makes your Tabernacle, Maze and Depths tap for mana
+1 Misty Rainforest: See above
+1 Enligtened Tutor: I'm really exited to try this out and if it is as good as i hope i'll cut a Intuition and add a 2nd. It seems really good to be able to fetch your sideboardhate, but mainly it's included as Exploration #5 over Manabond.
I'd really like to try the following in the near future, but i don't know what to cut yet:
1x Ghost Quarter: Cut it some time ago, but i kinda miss it when facing RUG and ANT
1x Nephalia Drownyard: Some guys over at MTGS recommended it.
I would also like to improve my Nic Fit/Explorer Pod macthup and i also feel that i need answers to Geist. Any suggestions?
forest is clever in many ways. one of them being your own ghost quarter :)
nic fit -especially with wish is just horrible. I dont think we have a fix for it.
Last edited by Phelix; 10-21-2013 at 04:30 AM.
I'm not sure i know what you are talking about? - besides if you are referring to the possibility of facing a Ghost Quarter on the opposite of the table and not being able to find a Forest? ...and if so, i have yet to see a deck - other than lands - that run's GC in Legacy! (But hey, i could be wrong)
He means being able to ghost quarter yourself for green, which is actually a pretty nice option to have in a lot of games.
As for nephalia drownyard, I would suggest against it. It kills slower than Tar Pit, doesn't kill planeswalkers, and does nothing against the emrakul decks of the format.
Well, since this deck isn't particular fast - if you have to GC yourself to get G, it's probably already over in my experience.
My thought exactly, just wanted to run it by you guys :)
Incorrect.
Not for for your first green, could easily be a valuemove on turn one or two (with moxes)
I think ive won at least 15 sanctioned games where i ghost quartered myself.
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