Deluge is probably better when you can wish for it. You'll never board it in vs Sneak and Show. But you might Wish for it to pay 15 to kill an Emrakul.Originally Posted by vilnico
Maybe a punishing pod list?? Because greed? Punishing pod with a burning wish board
Got it. I'll have some thoughts in a bit -- trying to brew something at the moment.
Wood Elves vs Sea Gate - I really like Wood Elves, but Sea Gate also seems like it would be a good card in the deck. I could definitely see trying out this switch. Let us know which you think is better if you get the chance.
4th drs vs 4th brainstorm vs. 2nd GSZ - This is the last slot I was debating before the tournament started, and it was between these three cards exactly. I really have no idea which is best, but my inclination right now tells me the 2nd GSZ might be just because of how key Veteran Explorer is. Getting blue mana really isn't a huge problem in my experience. I recommend against clique, it's been tried and it's just too low impact. Haven't tried mulldrifter. It's probably too cute, but then again Mulldrifter was a great card in standard and extended, and the deck is full of those.
Grave Titan vs. Lark - I strongly recommend against cutting Grave Titan. He puts the game away, and it is useful to have a six drop and he is the best one in these colors. Splashing for Lark seems like it's not worth it to me. Being unable to cast it would be really bad, and your deathrites often don't live or have lands in the yard to activate. Once pod gets going, you really don't need something like Reveillark to create an insurmountable advantage in my experience.
Notion Thief vs. Thoughtseize - I wouldn't really want a 2nd thoughtseize, in fact I'm not even sure I'd want the 1st one. I don't really want to make white leyline good against us, and there's already 4 therapies. I've said Notion Thief doesn't seem necessary to me, but others disagree so maybe you should keep it and try it out. The cards I'd want to make room for in the board are surgical extraction(s) (for punishing fire and graveyard combo decks where pilferer isn't good) and a phyrexian revoker of our own (hits jace, sneak attack, griselbrand to name a few).
Deed vs. Toxic Deluge - Toxic Deluge could be alright. It does kill our own explorers, like Deed, so that's cool. However Deed is a much more versatile card (hits equipment and enchantments, and some creatures for a lot less life, like Goyf). I wouldn't be too worried about revoker/needle since those will usually name Pod first. If they don't name Pod, an active pod can find answers for them (redcap/acidic slime). Deed's a pretty good card, I don't think I'd run less than 3 total. It also kills the new 3/1 pro everything card, though so does deluge.
Good luck in the Bazaar, let us know how it goes.
I don't think the life loss would be a big deal. If I were going to choose between infest and Toxic Deluge, I'd definitely play Toxic Deluge. More flexible and easier to cast. But I'm not sure either of them is better than Pernicious Deed. I also haven't played vs Goblins or Merfolk with the deck at all so I don't really know how that goes.
Regarding Pod:
Are we just being plain not greedy enough? Why not have EVERYTHING?
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sylvan Ranger
1 Baleful Strix
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
2 Deceiver Exarch
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
2 Restoration Angel
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Academy Rector
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Reveillark
1 Thragtusk
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Birthing Pod
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Splinter Twin
4 Cabal Therapy
3 City of Brass
2 Reflecting Pool
2 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
//SB
Literally anything we want
Obviously super rough (just threw it together), but, seriously -- why not do all of the things? Could sideboard literally anything we wanted, taken from any version of Nic Fit. Slaughter Games AND Negates? Yolo.
Rectoring into Splinter Twin is fucking dirty. The question is whether or not the manabase can actually handle this -- but with 5 rainbow lands, Veteran + Sylvan Ranger + DRS, Pod cheating on colors.....I dunno. Maybe. You get all of the KikiPod bullshit combo chains from modern, except faster because Explorer ramp is better than vomiting out Birds and Nobles. You get Stoneforge to go herpaderp with your 80 creature deck. Pretty sure Splinter and Kiki are completely disgusting with basically anything in this entire deck even when not comboing for the win.
I dunno. It occurred to me that maybe 4-color Pod isn't actually greedy enough, and I felt compelled to birth this monstrosity. I may become cursed or blessed for this list. Time will tell.
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@Sam:
I'm not actually surprised that Games was that good maindeck even vs non combo decks. Like, we have Therapy priorities in all matchups. We have things that we don't want to see out of basically every deck. So I mean, Games taking them out seems fine. Like as you noted about Ringleader from Goblins -- that's absolutely huge. It's not something that we would (likely) ever board in against them, but it's very far from being a dead card while it's in there.
Noted RE Bayou/Tower. The question then is really whether we want another fetch, or another Bayou. If we go -1 Mountain, -1 Tower, +2 fetch, we could actually be up to a full 4 fetches in Scape, which is actually pretty exciting. That would mean staying at 11 mountains and 2 Bayous, though. Unsure at this point.
I worry about Pyroclasm not doing enough work vs the fair decks, but maybe I shouldn't be. I certainly like the idea of having infinite Pyroclasms against Elves/Gobs/etc. I'm not on board with Pyroclasm yet in that large of a quantity, but I could see only running a 1-of Return (or 0, even). We just need to have something to switch for the Slaughter Games that is generically good, basically.
My head just exploded
Gotta squeeze PFire/Groves in there obviously. Makes it easier to hardcast Kiki Jiki
Wow. I mean seriously, wow. This list resembles the old survival lists that played each color best cip creatures: I loved that deck!
However with 4 explorers are only 6 basics not too few?
Ignorance is strength
Or a single Spike Feeder + Archangel of Thune, because why not?Gotta squeeze PFire/Groves in there obviously. Makes it easier to hardcast Kiki Jiki
I feel that BUG Pod should run a Creeping Tar Pit. Its often my best maindeck card for fighting Jace. I also want to play Phyrexian Revoker out of the board, but its rough in matchups where you also want Deed (like miracles or shardless BUG). That being said, Revoker is attractive because we still need to pressure the opponent while dirsupting them, and that is probably still good enough to warrant inclusion. Currently I've been running Maelstrom Pulse as an answer to Jace and random catch all, but its never particularly impressive.
@Gft Regarding Vendilion Clique; I've been trying it main, and it seems to be very high variance. Often its a do nothing, and podding into it is certainly not exciting, but there are situations where having it main gets you out of tough spots, like nabbing an equipment fetched by SfM, taking a crucial combo piece on the turn they go off, and flashing in to pressure a Jace. I've liked the flexibility it offers, but maybe its better suited as a disruptive sideboard card that also offers a good clock.
Regarding Swan Song vs. Force of Will. Both of these cards have very real costs. With FoW, its pitching other blue cards that you may need to win the game (the crucial glen elendra, envelop, or whatever). With Swan Song, its that damn 2/2. I've been trying the 4 Swan Song plan, and its been very high variance. On one hand, it counters everything we care about short of Jace. On the other hand, the 2/2 can be very annoying, and in fact I've encountered multiple situations where I've attacked a Jace, had to Swan Song something (e.g. Entreat the Angels, Swords to plowshares) mid combat, and the stupid 2/2 then blocks and saves the Jace. In those situations, Envelop would've been insane. I haven't tested Pilferers yet, and I'm curious about others experience with it...like how many cards do you get on average with it. If Pilferers truly is good enough, I think that's definitely enough to sway the sideboard away from such universal answer as Swan Song.
Finally, I'm curious as to others experience with RIP miracles. I don't think I've won a single matchup against it. I usually board out the Explorers and other cards that are heavily reliant on graveyards and bring in things like Notion Thief and Swan Songs. I'm entirely open to the possibility that I'm approaching the matchup wrong.
Yeah I almost ran 1 tar pit. I could see it being good. The miracles matchup is one where cutting down on abrupt decays will definitely hurt a lot. The deck basically can't function with a rest in peace on the table. The easiest solution would be to have more in the board to bring in but space is an issue.
Force of will does have a cost, but the plan I was using post board against combo cut down on the pod plan significantly, leaving baleful strix as a card you can play if you need to but also one you could pitch to force of will with no problems. You could just replace them with more envelops but then you lose the ability to stop a turn 1 kill which is pretty nice. It also makes it riskier to tap out turn 2 for a pilferer with no force.
And burning wish for versatilityGotta squeeze PFire/Groves in there obviously. Makes it easier to hardcast Kiki Jiki
@Arian: whatever you smoke... I WANT IT !!!! :D
I have almost everything, I'll try that someday
@GtF: Thanks a lot for the thoughts, notably about the Thoughtseize.
I may turn it into the Phyrexian Revoker, and maybe keep the Notion Thief. I am somewhat worried about Jace, and Thief may shine there.
Agaist GY, I mean Reanimator and Dredge, do you feel the need for a Surgical Extraction ? I would say we have enough disrupt against Reanimator, and enough stuff to handle Dredge. Punishing Fire is another call though.
Lastly I am worried about the Decay singleton. I am thinking to turn the 3rd DRS into a 2nd Decay.
Also got a friend telling me that it is no time to play Deed MD, and that I should play Decays over Deed. That will be a last minute call based on gut feeling I guess...
I saw also a list on MTGO going 3-1, running Necomancy. I guess it's cute to abuse from GY with that, but don't see it that much valuable. I'd rather have a Brainstorm or GSZ over it.
So here is more or less what I will play:
Lands (21)
3 Forest
1 Island
2 Swamp
2 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures (22)
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Baleful Strix
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Shriekmaw
1 Thragtusk
1 Grave Titan
Spells (17)
3 Birthing Pod
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
Sideboard
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
3 Riptide Pilferer
2 Envelop
4 Force of Will
1 Toxic Deluge / Infest
1 Golgari Charm
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Notion Thief
Looks pretty good, all the changes you made are ones I was considering as well (including wickerbough over slime, though I've liked slime alright so far).
I don't really understand Necromancy. It has some slight synergy with the the deck but just seems like a less powerful Recurring Nightmare unless you happen to play against reanimator and "get them" with it.
I don't understand why it wouldn't be a good time to play Deed. Not only that, but when deed is bad against a deck, decay usually isn't much better anyway. I'd stick with the split.
If you want to combo with kiki-jiki, red is enough, you don't need a penta. Just go Murderous Redcap into Zealous Conscripts untap pod with conscript, sacrifice redcap again into Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and the job is done.
Just be aware of potential Swords to Plowshares and DRS that will slow your combo down exiling redcap.
With a tricolor you can use you have space for Punishing Fire and Burning Wish.
And a melira, just for fun.
Also, Donate and Illusions of Grandeur
Because that combo is awesome. And search the illusions with Rector, find Donate with Strix's.
Boom
Mise well play Bazaar Trader as a Pod target.
I like the list as it is very similar to my BUG Pod list. Here's what I changed and why:
-3 Brainstorms makes my eyes bleed with rectal cancer secretions. Play none or play four at least. Take away a copy of whatever is not integral to your list such as a Decay, a Deed, or even a GSZ (because apparently that's not part of your "core" in Pod). I don't understand how someone with FoW syndrom (worry of blue sources) can make changes like Oracle > Wood Elves, and still not play 4 copies of BS. The first change you should make when you sleeve up a BUG Pod deck is to include 4 copies of BS... Only the Nic Fit thread proposes 1, 2, or 3 copies of BS in decks that can support it, along with other things like 5c Pod decks, "Whale Fit" Palinchron combos, and the infamous Ancestral-Panoptic-Command Control deck. That's part of why I love and hate this thread: It has all the creativity to make magical pony rides happen, and then it makes you fall over drooling and moaning over the millions of brain cells and potential booty calls you just lost for reading half of it.
-I don't see the point of playing a 2/2 split of Deed and Decay. Decay is much more versatile and flexible. Deed is a high impact card that has to be taken full advantage of in order to be effective, and that's not what a Pod deck does. Pernicious Deed is the kind of card your opponent wants to draw against you. Also, as a mid-late game deck, we need to survive the initial onslaught our opponent imparts on us. Delvers, Stifles, and Dazes will take you down quite easily if you keep a remotely clunky hand (it happens more often in real matches than gold-fishing sessions). I included 3 copies of Carpet of Flowers in my SB to combat Stifle decks, because Stifle is that good against us.
-This deck doesn't need the 3rd Forest. Just as most Nic Fit decks out there, the 3rd Forest is superficial and mostly there not to lose value out of multiple Explorer triggers. Traditional Nic Fit also tends to play more green-heavy cards. Unlike Nic Fit, Pod cannot afford to passively ramp to inevitability, it has to get its game on fast. Quite frankly, you don't need 6 basic lands to abuse Explorer. The first trigger is the most important, and we usually can abuse 2 triggers unlike most decks we face that can only get value out of 0-1 triggers. If anything, I would play a Dryad Arbor, or another DRS if you aren't already playing a full set. Dryad is so valuable as a GSZ target or when converting a fetch land into a potential Pod chain. If I didn't play 4 GSZ, with Arbor, I would definitely play 4 DRS.
-I agree with you that Wood Elves is sub-par. It is without a doubt one of the most underwhelming cards I have played in this deck. The Oracle is much better in its stead but, if it wasn't for your blue count, the 2nd Witness is much better. Witness is one of those Pod and GSZ targets, as well as natural draws that you want more than once in a Pod deck. Traditional Nic Fit plays 2 copies and doesn't use it nearly as effectively as this. Personally I still use Bone Shredder and I like that card a lot. The echo cost is as much of a blessing than a curse as it allows you to re-use the ability in conjunction with other cards more easily. Paying its cost twice is a small price to pay for the pressure Shredder takes off your shoulders. When he gets removed, it's a bit like getting your Snapcaster sworded after you sworded something with him. Removal is relevant against us and I'd rather have my opponent use it on my Shredder after I've paid the echo cost than nearly anything else. If anything, Necroplasm, Bone Shredder, Viridian Shaman, and a 2nd Witness all look more promising than Oracle.
-Murderous Redcap is 4 mana. As I read your post I get that you probably categorized him as a 3drop. It is important that you have at least four 3drops in your deck because those, along with 2drops, tend to be the critical CMC for impactful Pod chains. I think that your deck is a little light on 3drops and a little too heavy on 4drops as it is now. I suggest replacing Wickerbough Elder with a Viridian Shaman. It is your Harmonic Sliver and you will beg for it more often than not. I play 4 Pods and 2 Enchantments in my Junk list and Harmonic rarely cannot be played in fear of losing any of them.
-I am still not convinced of Strix's superiority over Blossoms even in BUG variants. If anything, I think you should definitely replace 1 Strix with 1 Blossoms when you play 1-4 GSZ. As your list stands now, you have no GSZ targets at 2 that you want to pod out and that, to me, seems very relevant.
-I never liked SB Jitte and Revoker in this deck. It is very difficult to side in non-combo hate cards without lowering the creature count. I find Golgari Charm to be extremely valuable as an out to RiP, board wipe against swarms and Moms, and as a mass regeneration effect against particular sweepers. RiP + Goblins or RiP + Mom are also very common combinations that makes Golgari Charm extremely versatile in certain matchups. One of the main strengths of Charm as a SB card in Pod is the fact that it comes in as a replacement for Cabal Therapy and still acts as an outlet for Explorer. Revoker is simply underwhelming and stops your Pod chain for an effect that is rarely worth it.
-Toxic Deluge is a liability and its effect is not necessary. A Virtue's Ruin, a Massacre, or a Golgari Charm generally induces similar or superior results without costing you life to do so. Finks and Thragtusk can give you life, but Pods and Creatures constantly take life points away from you as well. A sweeper is there to get you back in a losing battle, and I don't think paying life is the safest way to get it to work. Deluge is a great card without a doubt, just not in this deck, at least compared to its alternatives.
Overall, I think the quest to support SB FoW is a step in the wrong direction for this deck. It keeps you away from a strong synergistic core of green and black cards that benefit from only a few blue cards. I think a combination of Thoughtseize and Surgical is the way to go as a primary disruption SB plan because it is highly synergistic with your inherent game plan, and quite honestly, very reliable despite a couple Leylines here and there. Envelop and Swan Song are definitely the way to go against SnT decks IMO.
EDIT: Let's not forget Coiling Oracle vs. Blossoms and Strix as well. It is more easily casted, it ups your blue count, it can ramp, and it can be GSZ'ed!
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
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