Miracle Control

[god_campbell]

So with all these true Name's out in force, I think it's time to finally invest in a moat for the sb.

[supachai]

First Round vs. Merfolk - 0-2

G1: It seems he just have it all, counters, lords, a vial and even a standstill. I never see a StP or Terminus - i'm crushed.
G2: I get stuck on to lands for the entire game, but manage to set up two consecutive Terminus - which he just overcomes and kills me.

Yeah, Merfolk is rough. They're the fastest blue aggro deck, which means they can counter our sweepers while applying lots of early pressure. I'm kinda worried if Merfolk has a resurgance. Moat and the like might become more mainstream.

Second Round vs. Pox - 1-2

G1: I manage to get out a Top and 2 Jace throughout the game, but didn't see any StP to take care of his Factories. Game goes on for some time and he finally grinds me out as i just find lands upon lands.
G2: I get out Balance+Top in T3 and finish him off with a 'Clique lock' (clique+karakas)
G3: He gets a T1 Liliana and +1 her, i needle it on my turn an manage to misdirect a LD spell. He's on 2 lands and a needle'ed Lily and i have Top+Balance - neither of us has any cards in hands. He then top decks his 1-off Tombstalker and rides it to victory - once again i never saw a StP or Terminus even though i Top'ed and fetched several times.

G1, it sounds like you might have played your Jaces out too early. If they already have factory in play, I would not play my Jace without a way to protect it, either through removal or Clique. Just take the Factory beats for a while until you have a better plan. If they have tons of discard, I think we play much better than them off the top of the deck. But getting flooded is just bad luck (which is why I like 22 land + Ponder).
G3 Turn 1 Liliana is ROUGH. Lucky you had the Needle. Not seeing one of your 8-9 removal spells, or any Venser, Jace, Clique, or even Entreat seems like just really bad luck. Tombstalker should be not a huge problem for us.

Third Round vs T.E.S 1-2

G1: He makes 16 Goblins on T1 on the play - i desperately try to find a terminus through 2 Brainstorms and 2 Fetches - none. I lose.
G2: I manage to counter his early plays and 'lock' him down with a Clique+Karakas.
G3: He makes 14 Goblins on T1 again. I have every counter imaginable - except Force. Didn't find a Terminus here either.

I'm surprised TES went off turn 1 post board. Usually combo decks slow down after game 1. Not sure what your hand was, but you might have to mulligan more aggressively.

Fifth Round vs. UWR Delver 0-2

Can really remember this match as I only stayed and played it out because of heavy rain outside. I manage to lose a both games even though my opponent makes several huge mistakes. I'm really bummed out because of the previous matches and doesn't have my head in the game - doesn't help I don't really se any action.

Here are my thoughts on the list:

Though i really like the main deck RIP, i'm not sure it is necessary and i'm considering dropping it for the 4th StP. I'm also considering going down to 3 Counterbalance and adding in the 4th FOW. What do you think of these changes?

The Supreme Verdict is going the be a Moat from next week - i'm very excited about this!

I've played with Snapcaster in Miracles before, and hated it. I'm liking the Clique/Venser build for now.


Did i forget to address anything or points?

I don't like the maindeck Rest in Peace either. Against too many matchups it's just dead. 4th STP and Moat are all solid choices. I think 8 Counterspells MD is the correct number, split that how you want between Force, Pierce, CS, Misdirection, and Flusterstorm. I wouldn't cut the Counterbalance for it though. If you find you're having a rough time against combo, I'd cut a Misdirection for a Force.

I think Snapcaster is fine in Miracles, but the problem is Rest in Peace. It's such a good card in the Jund/Shardless/RUG matchups that just generates too much bad synergy with Snaps.

Anyways, sounds like you've gained some experience and have a plan to improve. Good luck!

[UB Control]

Hi All!
It is so good to read your threads every day. I play Legacy everyday on cocatrice (ubcontrol) and in real life as much as I can. My choice is 2/2 between the Snapcasters and Cliques because of my meta is discard and creature heavy. I run Venser in the SB. I finished 3rd with the Moat version in our monthly „national” event the so called Legacy League. This days I prefer the 1 Supreme Verdict and the 4th CB main deck instead of the Moat and the second Ponder. Before that those slots were for 2 Spell Snares.

The BoM list is very interesting. Can someone analyse this list? I have some ideas and questions about it:
23 land +1 in the sideboard. Because of Wasteland and Port and the 3rd Entreat not to miss any landrop.
10 Fetches to find easier what you need and get read of what is unnecessary with the Tops and Brainstorms.
3MD Entreat to win fast and stop attacking creatures.
No Misdirection. How do you stop discard spells?
3 Swords. Because of you use rather mass removals 4 MD 3 SB.
Only one Flusterstorm and no Canonist in the SB. I think storm is a bad match up. The 4 CB stops combo efficiently?

What do you think the player would have changed after the event?


Thank you!

[ivanpei]

Storm should be easier than show and tell because even a blind counterbalance is a beating. Against storm, you might want to Spell Pierce cantrips for value early in the game. Once their cabals hit threshold, spell pierces don't do much. Generally I'm not a fan of supreme verdict. It generates a clog at the 4cc slot. I think a full set of terminus, supplemented by some Snapcasters for swords as value is sufficient. For those who don't run Snapcaster, supreme verdict seems ok.

I think moat is great as a 1 off in the board or main. Anything more makes it quite clunky. But if it hits, it can take over the game. I have the 3rd entreat and a moat in the board for the gobs matchup. Imo with all this TNN hype, Miracles is very well positioned right now.

[Dzra]

23 land +1 in the sideboard. Because of Wasteland and Port and the 3rd Entreat not to miss any landrop.

The Mountain is for bringing in REBs/Pyroclasms against Wasteland/Port decks. I haven't found it necessary, but you'll see it occasionally. Why 23 MD even with a land in the SB? My guess is that he just didn't want to drop below 23 land ever.

10 Fetches to find easier what you need and get read of what is unnecessary with the Tops and Brainstorms.

I prefer 10 fetches: 4 Flooded, 4 Blue, 2 Arid.

3MD Entreat to win fast and stop attacking creatures.

Possibly a meta choice. Most lists are running 3 Entreat between the 75. I'd guess that running 3 MD might mean he was more worried about GBx midranged decks than combo.

No Misdirection. How do you stop discard spells?

You don't. Just resolve Top and you hand doesn't matter so much.

3 Swords. Because of you use rather mass removals 4 MD 3 SB.

This one is out of Lossett's playbook. I'd rather see 4/4 than 3/4, but more sweepers is definitely better against Nemesis.

Only one Flusterstorm and no Canonist in the SB. I think storm is a bad match up. The 4 CB stops combo efficiently?

I prefer Canonist over Flusterstorm, especially since he isn't running Snapcaster. Combo is never a bad MU, but the faster ones always have those quick "getcha" hands that can sometimes minimize your interaction.

What do you think the player would have changed after the event?

I wonder how they liked the 2 Pyroclasms in the SB. I've warmed up to Pyroclasm more and more over the last month, but it gets a lot worse if you're staring down a True-Name Nemesis.

Also, here's some decklists from Eternal Weekend: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...al13/legacy#6a

[Shaka1333]

I'm the one who finished 2nd in the French Legacy National on Friday and ended up 12th at the main event. I was 10-0 and i needed to make 2-3 in the last 5 rounds but i couldn't manage it... I lost 2 win-and-in matches in a row... so even if it was a great weekend, i'm still very disapointed right now. I guess i will try to make a report during the week though.

[supachai]

I'm the one who finished 2nd in the French Legacy National on Friday and ended up 12th at the main event. I was 10-0 and i needed to make 2-3 in the last 5 rounds but i couldn't manage it... I lost 2 win-and-in matches in a row... so even if it was a great weekend, i'm still very disapointed right now. I guess i will try to make a report during the week though.

Congrats! I was watching some of your games on the stream and definitely rooting for you to make top 8. Tough loss against Thomas E in the last round. I feel like you could have won game 2 against him though. Anyway, amazing job regardless, 12th is nothing to scoff at. I can't wait for a report.

[dsck]

I'm the one who finished 2nd in the French Legacy National on Friday and ended up 12th at the main event. I was 10-0 and i needed to make 2-3 in the last 5 rounds but i couldn't manage it... I lost 2 win-and-in matches in a row... so even if it was a great weekend, i'm still very disapointed right now. I guess i will try to make a report during the week though.

Well done though, 12th out of 700 ;) I'd definitely want to read your report!

[Shaka1333]

Thank you !

Yeah, i made a few bad decisions in our match ... that's why i'm even more disapointed.

[Qtc]

Miracles is making a strong showing at both BoM and Eternal Weekend on the stream. All Versions were the legendary ones. No Snapcaster or RIP-one sighted yet.

Greetings

Here's a RIP list:

Paul Lynch
Eternal Championships
8th
365 players

Creature [1]
1 Vendilion Clique

Instant [16]
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
2 Spell Pierce
3 Swords to Plowshares

Sorcery [5]
1 Entreat the Angels
4 Terminus

Artifact [6]
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Vedalken Shackles

Enchantment [7]
3 Counterbalance
1 Detention Sphere
1 Energy Field
2 Rest in Peace

Land [22]
2 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
1 Karakas
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mystic Gate
2 Plains
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island

Planeswalker [3]
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Flusterstorm
1 Misdirection
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Wear // Tear
1 Pyroclasm
1 Pithing Needle
1 Blood Moon
1 Humility
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Rest in Peace

[UB Control]

Thank you for the answers ipanpei and Dzra. Congrats Shaka1333!
Yesterday after you posted the link I played all day long the BoM list online. Although it has only 4 cards difference in MD and 3 cards in SB to my Snapcaster list, it claims a significantly different way to play! By now I couldn’t figure it out the proper way but I recognize the power in this built.

[kiblast]

First of all sorry for the late reply but lately I'm having problems with my laptop's keyboard.

You are overly simplistic in those Vial deck match-ups. Against Vial decks in general, they'll try to waste your double W and Port your White source, that's something you omit, for whatever reasons..

I omit that because we all are well aware of the denial plan of vial decks. But do we seriously fear 4 Wastelands and 4 Ports.decks with Miracles? I don't. It's not that hard to hit UUWW turn 4-5 in a deck packing 4 Tops 4 Brainstorms 2 Ponders,and 22 lands of which 9-10 are fetchlands and 5-6 are basics. Seriously just not cracking fetchlands most of the times is enough. Also playing filter lands helps a lot. I fear the Stifle + Wasteland plan much more (and in fact as I wrote above I don't really think about Moat during any tempo matchup).

Even if you do manage to get to 4 Mana and slam down Moat, you have probably taken some damages already. In that case, Goblins just needs to Seige-gang and Pyrokinesis in the SB to finish you off. You also forget to mention Mangara + Karakas trick, which would remove your Moat forever. Merfolk is THE Vial deck that runs counter magic like FoW and Counterspell, it's not easy to just play your single copy of Moat and hope it'll resolve. Keep in mind a lot of those are off a Cavern or Vial, makes your counter useless.

I mentioned SGC already, and that's Goblins only out to Moat (together with Krenko+ Sharpshooter+skirk prospector blowouts).

I ''forgot'' to mention Mangara + Karakas+ Vial because if they menage to assemble it and you don't have answers to it, Moat will be the last of your problems, you lost already if you don't find entreat or swords immediately. If they assemble it later, fine, your Moat served you well buying time and stalling the board.

Merfolk is THE vial deck? I highly doubt so, Goblin and DnT are miles ahead. Also Merfolk never ran Counterspell.
I'm not RELYING on Moat. Dunno where you read that. If I wanted to rely on Moat I'd complete my playset and play Dutch Stax.All I'm saying is that Moat is fucking good VS lots of decks, and you could try one maindeck as an additional tool vs ground beaters, as if it shows up randomly either wins games, or buys enough time to eventually find a Terminus, an Entreat or a Jace.

[zerzab11]

@ Shaka: Congrats to your results.

I played straight UW Miracles at BoM and liked it very much:

Friday: 5 : 1 : 1

Saturday: 6 : 1 : 2 (I drew the Win-and-In and scooped to my favoured opponent; only loss against the eventual winner Julian Knab)

3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
1 Daze
2 Counterbalance
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm

3 Entreat the Angels
3 Terminus
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
2 Ponder
1 Vendilion Clique

1 Back to Basics
1 Moat
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Rest in Peace

2 Tundra
3 Plains
7 Island
4 Flooded Strand
1 Karakas
2 Arid Mesa
3 Scalding Tarn

//Sideboard
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Supreme Verdict
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Back to Basics
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Seal of Cleansing
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Helm of Obedience
SB: 1 Detention Sphere
SB: 1 Counterbalance
SB: 1 Sword to Plowshares

If I would have managed to play a bit faster I could have won 2 of my 3 draws (one with lethal on the board). Back to Basics was awesome all weekend, punishing all those greedy decks. Might write a report if I find the time.

Greetings

[alphastryk]

Yeah my most recent Miracles is also featuring it in the SB. Simply due to the fact, that you now want to bring in all REBs you got vs Tempo - which you can't do with Volcanic Islands only.
Greetings

Yeah, I've been doing that already but I've been pretty happy with 'cheating' and mainboarding the basic mountain over the second volcanic for a while now. It can hurt you sometimes but it's worth having and I'd rather have the extra sideboard space.

...
No Misdirection. How do you stop discard spells?
...

Typically you don't, because you don't need to against fair decks. You have top and a better lategame, just don't die before it comes online. I've never liked misdirection or wanted it after I tried it a few times.


I went 6-3 (54th) in Legacy Champs at Eternal Weekend with my RiP-Helm list, and saw a ton of other miracles near the top tables all day.

The list:


4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Enlightened Tutor

2 Counterbalance
3 Rest in Peace
1 Energy Field
1 Counterspell

1 Vendilion Clique
1 Detention Sphere
2 Entreat the Angels

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Force of Will

3 Terminus

5 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
1 Karakas
1 Mystic Gate
2 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island


Sideboard:
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroclasm
1 Ethersworn Cannonist
2 Meddling Mage
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Flusterstorm
1 Wear // Tear
1 Humility
1 Blood Moon
1 Celestial Purge


Quick partial round summary since I didn't take enough notes and was very tired on Saturday

Rd 1 - Jund (0-2)

Not a good way to start the day - lost two close games to lethal damage when I had the kill the next turn, one to a topdecked punishing fire. He played around blood moon by fetching basics in game one so I didn't board it in.

Rd 2 - TES (2-0)

Game 1 he made ten goblins after I played a top, and I was able to dig to a terminus and follow it up with a counterbalance. Once I found a threat he conceded.

Game 2 I kept a no-force hand with tutor and meddling mage, and he didn't have the turn 1. He cantripped and passed, and I tutored for cannonist to go with my meddling mage in my opener. Played cannonist, then mage on Abrupt Decay to keep cannonist around. Those two went the distance, and he showed me after the match he had only one chain of vapor to get out of the lock.

After that most of the rounds are a blur, but I know I lost to deathblade and the true mirror, beating legendary miracles, reanimator, pox, and MUD (unfortunately this was one of our group that came from Atlanta). I also never had a match go to 3 games, and both CB mirrors finished with more than 20 minutes on the clock. :)

I wasn't able to find Unexpectedly Absent before the event unfortunately, or the Celestial Purge in the board would have been swapped out. I haven't had a chance to test the new card that much but I heard from other Miracles players there that it was very good.

The 3rd entreat in the board was way better than I've been giving it credit for, and I'm happy to have that be my extra threat now over Elspeth / Batterskull / etc. Mystic Gate was never relevant, Karakas was good, and mountain never caused any issues.

[ziggy_stardust]

Alpha, we may have seen each other (not as opponents, but sat next to each other, as I sat next to my fair share of Miracle-brothers), as I finished 7-2, good for 14th. Also, regarding the basic mountain, I used to think the same way as you for the tempo decks, but the real trick is to just not fetch the volc until you need it. Granted, I also play the legenfary build, so my Karakases draw a lot of the Wastelands' attention.

My maindeck was the same as Joe's list -1 Mystic Gate, +1 Unexpectedly Absent (I did not cut the land for the spell; I've just preferred to play a slightly greedier version than him and run one fewer land and typically have 1-2 rotating flex spots that deviate from his exact list). Sideboard has more differences from Joe's list, but I think it's MOSTLY the same. It's a bummer that my only two losses were to friends, one of which was on elves, which is supposed to be a 90/10 (at least that's how it feels, to me) matchup in my favor. I guess it makes up for me somehow winning my unwinnable matchup of 12-post; it actually should have been SUPER unwinnable since I chose to leave my Blood Moons at home. The other friend I lost to was a bit more acceptable, as he was playing a Lejay-esque Shardless BUG (4 Lilianas) with True-Name Nemesis. (Side note: he actually won the only grinder with that deck, the night before). Unexpectedly Absent did a lot of work on Liliana, but proved too hard to cast in game three, when he was able to stick her on turn two, and followed up with back to back Wastelands to pretty much lock me out of the game. I jokingly asked if he was ready to make some piles when he had a Lily at 8 and my board was basic island. I'll probably get a full report up on Hipsters of the Coast for my piece for this week, but it won't be published until Thursday.

[kaosjr]

Hey guys I went 7-1-1 at eternal weekend. I got 9th by a fraction of a percent, sadly. I was on camera twice if ggslive has the videos yet. Moat was MVP, winning 6-8 games by itself. Going forward I may try to find room for an E tutor in the board. Searches for moat, rip, top, CB, even the scullers. Here is the list:

Creatures:4
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant

Spells:33
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Counterbalance
1 Counterspell
1 Rest in Peace
2 Entreat the Angels
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Moat
3 Force of Will
3 Terminus

Lands:23
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
2 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Plains
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:15
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Celestial Purge
1 Disenchant
1 Rest in Peace
3 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Humility
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Force of Will
2 Misdirection

[Poron]

How do we deal with Omni Tell?
apart from counter wars and Counterbalance I mean.

If we can't get a CB online we're in trouble I'm afraid.. may be some Ethersworn Canonist in SB for Storm and OmniTell?

[BlackStarDeceiver]

How do we deal with Omni Tell?
apart from counter wars and Counterbalance I mean.

If we can't get a CB online we're in trouble I'm afraid.. may be some Ethersworn Canonist in SB for Storm and OmniTell?

Venser and Clique are both pretty good actually :) Or splash black and play Notion Thief if you are not liking REB's

[Poron]

against deck like ours they're definitly playing Defense Grid.

I'm not sure Instants are the answear in that matchup.
They play Gitaxian Probe to count our counters (and more counters than us by default), Defense Grid and once Omniscience hits field they can win Instant speed.

an example:
1) Show and Tell
2) Omniscience (we play Vendilion or Venser here)
3) They put the triggered ability of Vendilion/Venser on the stack
4) Cunning Wish (for free) for Firemind's Foresight
5) Search for: Cunning Wish, Trickbind, Anything
6) Cast, for free, Trickbind on Clique/Venser/Detention Sphere/Oblivion Ring

Counterbalance (alongside with pure counters) is our only card in that matchup, but since they play Defense Grid.. I'm afraid CB is the only solid answear

[alphastryk]

Alpha, we may have seen each other (not as opponents, but sat next to each other, as I sat next to my fair share of Miracle-brothers), as I finished 7-2, good for 14th. Also, regarding the basic mountain, I used to think the same way as you for the tempo decks, but the real trick is to just not fetch the volc until you need it. Granted, I also play the legenfary build, so my Karakases draw a lot of the Wastelands' attention...

Probably did see each other. I was wearing an Atlanta Braves hat and mostly play German / Korean foils if that helps. :)

I also have Pyroclasms in my board, so I can't afford to just fetch my red source when I need it, I need it to stick around.

Hey guys I went 7-1-1 at eternal weekend. I got 9th by a fraction of a percent, sadly. I was on camera twice if ggslive has the videos yet. Moat was MVP, winning 6-8 games by itself. Going forward I may try to find room for an E tutor in the board. Searches for moat, rip, top, CB, even the scullers. ...

Congrats on the finish, sorry you just missed. What's the thought process with playing Scullers over Meddling Mage / Cannonist, and was it really worth splashing and adding another nonbasic?

How do we deal with Omni Tell?
apart from counter wars and Counterbalance I mean.

If we can't get a CB online we're in trouble I'm afraid.. may be some Ethersworn Canonist in SB for Storm and OmniTell?

Seriously? I feel like this matchup is a joke. Counterbalance is only ok, but hatebears are excellent, especially cannonist & meddling mage. I've never lost this matchup. If you have E Tutor, you should never leave home without at least a cannonist in the board.