[DTB] Team America (Aggro/Tempo Thread)

[Zirath]

I wanted the True-Name Nemesis list to be good, but I think that Team America with TNN just lacks punch. You gain an evasive beater/eternal wall and less susceptibility as a whole to Rest in Peace and Submerge, but you lose the raw power of Hymn to Tourach (Thoughtseize is far too polite for what this deck wants to be doing), Tombstalker (costs less mana than TNN, is virtually just as evasive, dodges Abrupt Decay and Lightning Bolt, and has +2 power) and Liliana of the Veil (well, she's Lily 2.0). Akatsuki wrote a lot about this in his tournament report on Channel Fireball.

I do think that the TNN version can shine in a meta that's heavier on Tundra decks, but I think it's weaker than traditional Team America for the most part.

That's similar to how I felt but I was also considering changing those lists. Removing Thoughtseize from the main deck, pick up the 20th land, 2 Jace and 4 Stifle. Is this deviating too far away from Team at that point? I'm more likely going to go towards the traditional UB list (I really like Tombstalker) but I am just thinking about options.

[Neffy]

Went 6-0 for 1st/62 or so today.

2-0 against Elves (Disfigure + Charm is sooo good right now, 2 Cages help as well)
2-0 against BG Reanimator (some brew including Varolz and reanimation package)
2-0 against Deathlade
2-1 against 12Post
2-1 against Can Thresh
2-0 against Shardless

Deck is a Blast to play. Toyed around with some other decks but this one is still the very best ;)

SB was nothing special except 2 JtMs and 1 Loam found their way in, Loam might stay, Jace rather not.

Will you write your SB please? I've also been wondering if 2xcage is the way to go :)

[BlackStarDeceiver]

Will you write your SB please? I've also been wondering if 2xcage is the way to go :)

Ooops, did not even notice i forgot to post my list :D

Maindeck is standard setup with 1 Liliana 1 Sylvan Library

SB:

2 Grafdiggers Cage
3 Golgari Charm
3 Disfigure
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Spell Pierce
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Jace, the Mindsculptor
1 Life from the Loam


Cards i do consider in place of Jace and Loam are Nullrod, Maelstrom Pulse, Torpor Orb (highly meta dependent) or simply Thoughtseize.

[Asthereal]

Played this deck yesterday at the Dutch Legacy Championships, and went 3-3-1 after going 3-0-1.
I'll write a report soon, but I must say I really love this deck! It feels really strong.
Imperial Painter is a bitch though.

[Cire_dk]

Ooops, did not even notice i forgot to post my list :D

Maindeck is standard setup with 1 Liliana 1 Sylvan Library

SB:

2 Grafdiggers Cage
3 Golgari Charm
3 Disfigure
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Spell Pierce
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Jace, the Mindsculptor
1 Life from the Loam


Cards i do consider in place of Jace and Loam are Nullrod, Maelstrom Pulse, Torpor Orb (highly meta dependent) or simply Thoughtseize.

I think if you consider your bad matchups Thoughtseize and Pulse are the most versatile cards against a wide range of decks. That's why my decision to try flusterstorm instead of thoughtseize was a bad one. Especially in the sneak and show match ups I would have loved thoughtseize because you can disrupt combo from turn 1 onwards and that is what works best in most cases.

[Kotowari]

Quick report from double GPT weekend - unfortunatelly turnout was not great, but the meta was quite diverse. I played standard list with 1 Sylvan Library and 1 Liliana and following sb:

3 Disfigure
3 Golgari Charm
2 Thoughtseize
2 Spell Pierce
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Maelstorm Pulse
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Creeping Tar Pit

GPT1
2-0 DarkMaverick
2-0 Dredge
1-2 BUG Delver (with Jace and Loam in sb)
2-0 GB Depths
1-2 Sneak and Show

Top4
2-0 Dark Maverick
Split with BUG Delver

GPT2
2-0 Junk
0-2 RUG Delver
2-1 Imperial Painter
2-1 Punishing Jund
1-2 OmniTell

Top4
2-1 OmniTell
Split with Jund

Few thoughts:
- Fair creature matchups are quite easy, we have monstrous sideboard to bring for games 2 and 3
- Dredge felt really winnable with only 1 dedicated gy hate in the sb, but i would really prefer at least 1 surgical extraction to bring against random cards which are not affected by cage, especially punishing fire and loams
- Vs other delver decks lilianas and disfigures are great, but we need to have long game gameplan too: i feel 1 loam would be great there, but needs more testing. Or just drop turn 4-5 unanswered tombstalker - this works fine too. Also - needs to play really tight to win mirrors (i missplayed quite few times...)
- I really liked split between thoughtseizes and spell pierces in the sideboard. You bring both against combo decks, and against fair decks when sideboarding out 4 FoW/4 daze i often sideboarded in 2 spell pierces to have answers for opposing planewalkers/removal/discard (lilianas, swords, hymns, gsz)
- Good that not many decks play blood moon, it's really hard to deal with - against painter i lost a game around 15th turn when his 5th (afair) moon effect resolved on empty board
- Maelstorm pulse did his job when drawn, but it was just a sorcery speed, 1 mana more expensive abrupt decay
- Sylvan library often feels like cheating, i would not play without it in the maindeck. It was often drawing 2-3 extra cards, filtering draws with fetchlands, flipping delvers, searching for answers and eating decays instead of my threats
- Vendilion clique was the most sideboarded in cards the whole weekend, yet i still think it's place is in the sideboard - maindeck is just too good

If i had to play tomorrow i would swap -1 pulse +1 surgical in the sideboard. Besides that the deck felt great!

[wcm8]

Played in a small tournament this past weekend, going 3-1-1 with the current standard list.

I beat UWr Countertop, Dredge, and UB Tezzerator. My loss was to Elves (and eventual tournament winner), which came down to a game 3 wherein my opponent topdecked what I believe was one of the few outs he had. I also ID'd with a friend playing URW Delver in the last round, hoping to have us both draw into the top 4 rather than definitely knocking one of us out (like I said, small turnout this time due to bad weather -- only 13 players). Unfortunately I got 5th due to the results of the last round, while my friend did make it there.

I think a second Grafdigger's Cage might be nice to have, as even with all of the removal Elves is still a rough matchup. Natural Order -> Craterhoof STILL kills you if they only have 2 creatures on board, so you're never really *safe* in a matchup like this. I also made an error sideboarding in the second game, as I took out Abrupt Decay and left in Hymn to Tourach thinking that I had "enough removal". Granted, a 2cmc removal isn't that stellar, but it IS better than discard against a deck that drops its hand quickly. You also won't lose to Scavenging Ooze with a Gaea's Cradle like I did. Lesson learned.

I also see that TA is back to where it belongs as a DTB. Which is sort of bad as players won't be able to ignore it as often -- generally when you see articles about the Delver Archetype, you only hear about RUG, UWR, and occasionally Grixis or straight UR. BUG for whatever reason is usually ignored. It is a HUGE advantage to have your opponent assume you're playing Cascade, and then run into Daze and/or Spell Pierce.

[Asthereal]

Here's my report: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...541#post774541

I went 3-3-1, not great, but the deck didn't fail me. That was the other way around.

Anyway, I chose to play stock with 2x Liliana instead of 1x Lily and 1x Sylvan, because I expected a LOT of combo, and Lily is still very nice against fair decks. Didn't see that much combo though.

My sideboard was:
3x Disfigure
3x Golgari Charm
3x Spell Pierce
2x Thoughtseize
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Vendilion Clique

In retrospect I should have played :
Main +1 Sylvan, -1 Lily
Side -2 Surgical, +1 Lily, +1 Grafdigger

Didn't really miss the one-of Pulse. Having 3x Pierce was nice, used them quite a lot actually, even though I didn't encouter much combo.

[KobeBryan]

i didn't do so great either...lost to jund and then affinity the next round.

going 0-2 from the start makes u feel shitty.

[Purgatory]

Played TA in a small local today. Was going to play RUG, but decided at the last moment to go for TA instead, and I'm not sorry about that.

Played the stock list with a Sylvan Library and a Dismember in the flex slots. Both performed really well. My manabase was worse than usual though, since own only 1 Bayou and no Verdant Catacombs, so I had to replace those with a Flooded Strand and another Tropical. It didn't come up though, thankfully.

My SB was this:
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Flusterstorm
2 Submerge
3 Disfigure
1 Life from the Loam
2 Golgari Charm
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Winter Orb

My matches were:

R1: Bye. I don't like getting byes when playing in small monday night tournaments, since I was there to play magic. One of the matches went to time as well, so I had to wait a long time for the second round to start.

R2: Imperial Painter (2-1). In the first game, I respond to two Blood Moons with the words "Tap and Underground Sea for B tap a Tropical for G". I win on the back of a 6/7 Goyf. I lose game two against the awful level-up dude, which put me to shame. I had only two elves in play, no Decays despite several Brainstorms/Ponders. I win game 3 quite easily through two 6/7 Goyfs.

R3: UWr RiP-Miracles (2-0). Both games are grindy as all hell, but I win game one after not over-committing to the board and forcing him to Terminus single Goyfs etc. He almost stabilizes on 6 life when he lands a Jace against my lone 6/7 Goyf, but three turns later he still hasn't found an out to my creatures. In the second game, I bait him with Vendilion Clique and slam Winter Orb when he's tapped out with CB+Top in play. I land a Tombstalker a couple of turns later and Force his only response, a Plow I think.

R4: WBg Deadguy Deathblade (2-1). His deck is homebrew-ish, but it has several things I'd rather not see, discard, Mother of Runes, Stoneforge Mystic, Deathrite Shaman, Lingering Souls, Liliana etc. etc. We also always face each other in tournaments, and he usually wins, his deck is quite tuned to beat Delver, and he's used to play against them. He's at 2-0-1, I'm the only one undefeated and whoever wins gets the prize. I lose game one to double-Deathrite and Lingering Souls, and I win game two with big Goyfs and a Tombstalker. I boarded Disfigure which is the bomb against his deck, since it literally kills every creature he plays, and Golgari Charm is great too, killing Spirit tokens, Bob, active Mothers etc. In game three, he anti-climactically mulligans to five, but proceeds to draw triple-Wasteland against my slow hand. I draw enough lands to fill the gaps, however, and Team America'd all over him.


Only nine people showed up (but hey, monday night), but I took first and left with a Sword of Feast and Famine. The deck felt awesome, the maindeck was quite strong aside from the faulty manabase, although I think I'll test Lilly instead of Dismember.

[Korvo]

@Purgatory: Nice Report. My Question: against what MUs do you board Winter Orb?

[Purgatory]

@Purgatory: Nice Report. My Question: against what MUs do you board Winter Orb?

Yesterday I only boarded it against Miracles, where it is nuts. I also board it against Jund, and any random grindy and mana-hungry midrange or control deck.

[kingsey]

I've been running winter orb for about a year now. Correct on the miracles and mid range match ups. It's amazing and keeps your dazes live. I also run stifle in my list so I'm heavy on mana denial. It's an amazing card.

[ZimAshe]

Hi all, I was looking for a BUG control forum and couldn't seem to find one other than Team America and Shardless Control. Does one exist?

[lavafrogg]

Hi all, I was looking for a BUG control forum and couldn't seem to find one other than Team America and Shardless Control. Does one exist?

There are a couple on pages 3 and 4 of established.

[ZimAshe]

There are a couple on pages 3 and 4 of established.

Thanks LavaFrog!

[Dragonslayer_90]

Still playing this deck. I feel unbeatable with it unless I make a fatal misplay or I play against a deck I don't know that well (like Tin Fins). I am having the hardest time with Elves recently though. Preboard seems almost impossible. Postboard is a little more even but I still struggle. What should be my gameplan with this deck agaist Combo Elves? Typically I've gone the route of removal, counters, some permanent based hate like cage and sometimes pithing needle, and a Vendilion Clique. Typically I've been siding out dazes on the draw (for spell pierces), Lilis, hymns, and a goyf. Also, just got done talking to an Elves player on cockatrice who says discard is better against elves than counters, which makes me wonder if I should keep my hymns postboard. Thoughts?

[danyul]

What does your SB look like? I would definitely bring in Hymns. Lili can sometimes be underwhelming, but she is great at keeping your lead once you get there. Do you have Golgari Charms in your SB? What is your MD removal package? Are you running Disfigure?

[KobeBryan]

Still playing this deck. I feel unbeatable with it unless I make a fatal misplay or I play against a deck I don't know that well (like Tin Fins). I am having the hardest time with Elves recently though. Preboard seems almost impossible. Postboard is a little more even but I still struggle. What should be my gameplan with this deck agaist Combo Elves? Typically I've gone the route of removal, counters, some permanent based hate like cage and sometimes pithing needle, and a Vendilion Clique. Typically I've been siding out dazes on the draw (for spell pierces), Lilis, hymns, and a goyf. Also, just got done talking to an Elves player on cockatrice who says discard is better against elves than counters, which makes me wonder if I should keep my hymns postboard. Thoughts?

I take out 4 daze 2 stalkers 1 decay 1 hymn. In pithing needle 3 charms 3 disfigure 1 cage

Reason needle stops symbiote cage stops gsz. Rest is self explanatory

[Dragonslayer_90]

What does your SB look like? I would definitely bring in Hymns. Lili can sometimes be underwhelming, but she is great at keeping your lead once you get there. Do you have Golgari Charms in your SB? What is your MD removal package? Are you running Disfigure?

I play a stock list with 2 Lili's in the flex slots so I have 4 Hymns main deck. Here's the sb I've been playing with recently:

SB: 3 Golgari Charm
SB: 3 Disfigure
SB: 3 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Creeping Tar Pit

I keep some counterspells in addition to force of will because the blue count becomes sketchy if you cut all four dazes. So usually I will have some number of pierces or dazes in the deck postboard, depending if I'm on the play or draw.

EDIT: In regards to my maindeck removal package, it's only 4 Abrupt Decay and 2 Lilianas, typically not good enough to keep Elves from flooding the board.

I take out 4 daze 2 stalkers 1 decay 1 hymn. In pithing needle 3 charms 3 disfigure 1 cage

Reason needle stops symbiote cage stops gsz. Rest is self explanatory

Seems reasonable. I should probably bring in needle mostly for symbiote. How does the match-up feel once you've boarded?