[SCD] Spirit of the Labyrinth

[testing32]

Yup. This card by itself won't make DnT tier 1. Luckily, DnT is already tier 1. :)

I disagree. Hasn't been since TNN was printed. It matched up poorly against TNN and get hammered by the TNN hate.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Hmm . . . the more I think about it, this card doesn't seem all that great as a prison piece, at least against non-combo decks.

Why? Because it does die to everything without generating any real value unless vialed in response to something. Not that Tarmogoyf and Bob haven't already proven that to be false, but because it is a prison piece as opposed to "generic beatstick/advantagestick", not being able to protect itself and indeed dying to any sort of removal makes me questions its uses against Brainstorm.dec.

[TsumiBand]

Hmm . . . the more I think about it, this card doesn't seem all that great as a prison piece, at least against non-combo decks.

Why? Because it does die to everything without generating any real value unless vialed in response to something. Not that Tarmogoyf and Bob haven't already proven that to be false, but because it is a prison piece as opposed to "generic beatstick/advantagestick", not being able to protect itself and indeed dying to any sort of removal makes me questions its uses against Brainstorm.dec.

Only as easy to remove as any other White Weenie creature in a deck full of Mother of Runes and protection Swords, but yeah.

There's also the odd possibility that there's a new tribal deck in town. (I'm reaching, yes.)



I'm not positive that there are a ton of other Spirits worth playing. Geist of St Traft? Kataki? Tallowisp? :/ Okay maybe not.

But anyway, I don't know that the argument against any creature can strictly be "it can be answered". Especially since, for many decks in the format, this particular creature must be answered.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Only as easy to remove as any other White Weenie creature in a deck full of Mother of Runes and protection Swords, but yeah.

There's also the odd possibility that there's a new tribal deck in town. (I'm reaching, yes.)



I'm not positive that there are a ton of other Spirits worth playing. Geist of St Traft? Kataki? Tallowisp? :/ Okay maybe not.

But anyway, I don't know that the argument against any creature can strictly be "it can be answered". Especially since, for many decks in the format, this particular creature must be answered.

True, I guess I'm more or less thinking of the reasons why a non-combo deck would Brainstorm, Jacestorm, spin Top, etc. Isn't it usually to find answers or threats in the mid to late game?

[Koby]

It dies to both Serenity and Massacre, while still getting bounced by Chain of Vapor.

In other words, I don't even care in the slightest.

[The Big Ragu]

Looks like exactly the card our meta is in need of. I like it.

[TsumiBand]

In other words, I don't even care in the slightest.

[Arsenal]

I disagree. Hasn't been since TNN was printed. It matched up poorly against TNN and get hammered by the TNN hate.

thecouncil still has it D&T at 9th for November 2013 and 10th for December 2013. Where's the cutoff for top tier? Top 5? Because in September and October 2013 (two months before TNN), D&T was 7th place.

[phazonmutant]

Presenting 2Chainz

// Creatures - 16
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Deathrite Shaman

// Spells - 20
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Punishing Fire
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Anvil of Bogardan
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Winds of Change
4 Burning Wish
2 Life from the Loam

// Lands - 25
1 Dark Depths
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Thespian's Stage
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Scrubland
1 Barren Moor
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Thespian's Stage

// Sideboard
1 Dark Depths
1 Devastating Dreams
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Living Wish
1 Winds of Change
1 Life from the Loam
1 Slaughter Games
1 Chainer's Edict
2 Thoughtseize
1 Reverent Silence
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Chain Lightning

I have no idea how it beats True Name. But boy does this look sweet.

[nedleeds]

Chain of Vapor this asshat!

[Arsenal]

I want to make a Green-White EDH deck with SoL, Sterling Grove, a bunch of tutors, Rest in Peace and Helm of Obedience just to hate all the ramp-ramp-ramp-fatty strategies that people seem to get wet over.

[Koby]

Chain of Vapor this asshat!

[testing32]

thecouncil still has it D&T at 9th for November 2013 and 10th for December 2013. Where's the cutoff for top tier? Top 5? Because in September and October 2013 (two months before TNN), D&T was 7th place.

Using that logic, tcdecks also says that shardless bug would of been a great choice last month with it being in 4th place.

Edit: and rug

[Arsenal]

Using that logic, tcdecks also says that shardless bug would of been a great choice last month with it being in 4th place.

Uh... it was the 4th because it was a good choice. That means people were playing with it and doing well with it. It's a BGx deck that can run answers to the endless Delver-SFM-TNN (Golgari Charm, Toxic Deluge) while having reasonable game versus combo thanks to having access to countermagic (FoW) and discard (Thoughtseize/Hymn).

I don't understand what you're saying. I provide you with data to show what decks are relevant in the meta and you're response is that Shardless BUG (4th place for December 2013) isn't a good choice because it was 4th? What?

[testing32]

Uh... it was the 4th because it was a good choice. That means people were playing with it and doing well with it. It's a BGx deck that can run answers to the endless Delver-SFM-TNN (Golgari Charm, Toxic Deluge) while having reasonable game versus combo thanks to having access to countermagic (FoW) and discard (Thoughtseize/Hymn).

I don't understand what you're saying. I provide you with data to show what decks are relevant in the meta and you're response is that Shardless BUG (4th place for December 2013) isn't a good choice because it was 4th? What?

We are getting a little off topic but what I'm saying is that repeatedly top 8ing 30 to 50 man events doesn't mean a lot. Events that small get warped more based on variance and what the best local players are on compared to larger events. That combined with the fact that the meta is changing at a fast pace right now means the tcdecks data gets stale fast.

If there was a large event I wouldn't feel good about playing Shardless, RUG or D&T.

[KobeBryan]

It dies to both Serenity and Massacre, while still getting bounced by Chain of Vapor.

In other words, I don't even care in the slightest.

The almost exact thing can be said about thalia...and people worry or have to deal with it.

[Infinitium]

So anyway:

Mikokoro, Center of the Sea suddenly looks much better than previously, especially if Spirit gets as widespread as I think it will be (ie every remotely aggressive Wxx deck not running BS, Glimpse or LftL out there). Not a 4-of obviously, but I can see throwing one or two miser ones into decks already running Spirit.

[nedleeds]

[Arsenal]

We are getting a little off topic but what I'm saying is that repeatedly top 8ing 30 to 50 man events doesn't mean a lot. Events that small get warped more based on variance and what the best local players are on compared to larger events. That combined with the fact that the meta is changing at a fast pace right now means the tcdecks data gets stale fast.

If there was a large event I wouldn't feel good about playing Shardless, RUG or D&T.

Looking at thecouncil's data for all 100+ player tourneys since December 2013 through today, there has been a BUG Control, RUG Delver and/or D&T deck in the top 8/16 in all but ONE tourney (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12578). For all others, RUG/D&T/Shardless BUG has been well represented:

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12653
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12597
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12577
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12418
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12428
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12416
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12413
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12358
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12373
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12384

To recap, 10 out of 11 100+ player tourneys has seen a Shardless BUG, RUG Delver and/or D&T deck in the top 8/16 since December 2013 through now. Again, where are you getting your data from because all of the data I'm looking at is contrary to your position. Care to share?

[lavafrogg]

Like i said in the other thread, decks that are going to play this will be aggressive, like zoo, where you won't be able to draw cards to get past them or non blue aggro control decks that are BW based. My best guess, and pet deck, is Junk. Being able to play tons of cards to get ahead of the opponent while they can't just straight up draw cards will be huge. Confidant, Loam, Jitte, Punishing fire, fauna shaman, recursion(genesis? squee?) will be able to pace past any deck still trying to cast cantrips for value on your turn.

I don't think DnT or Maverick will want this unless it is a straight swap for thalia and I feel that Thalia is a better card, especially with wastelands.