All B/R update speculation.

[Lord Seth]

Just because some random dude wrote an article for SCG doesn't mean unbanning MM is okay - at all.

1. The main reason of it being mandatory isn't gone and will never go away.
2. It boosts blue decks even further and we already have a ridiculous amout of blue decks in format.
3. Snapcaster exists now.

This is something that needs to be especially stressed. Snapcaster Mage basically takes the problems Mental Misstep created and makes them even worse. Mental Misstep powered up Blue too much? Well, now there's a card that's amazing with Mental Misstep and only available to Blue decks.

[rufus]

I'd consider Mental Misstep if they errata it to:

Counter target blue spell with converted mana cost 1.

[sdematt]

So say we live in a world where everyone at Wizards listens to all the people who say Brainstorm gets banned. I don't want to live in that format. My deck would just be TOO good. Just saying.

-Matt

[Arsenal]

Tourney data through 1-26-14 has been updated on thecouncil and TNN decks are #1, #2, #3. I'm still waiting for all this "adaptation" that you pro-TNN people have been talking about since mid-October 2013.

[testing32]

Tourney data through 1-26-14 has been updated on thecouncil and TNN decks are #1, #2, #3. I'm still waiting for all this "adaptation" that you pro-TNN people have been talking about since mid-October 2013.

And brainstorm decks are 6 of the top 7 and 10 of the top 13. Are you sure you're complaining about the right card?

edit: http://www.tcdecks.net/mostplayedcards.php

TNN is the 20th most played card. Brainstorm has been #1 for at least the last 4 years, usually by a wide margin. In fact, stoneforge mystic is #7 on that list.

I could rewrite your statement: Tourney data through 1-26-14 has been updated on thecouncil and SFM decks are #1, #2, #3 and #4

[Erdvermampfa]

After all, I find TNN less threatening then I thought it would actually turn out. Sure, it forces you to adapt to it in your card choices, especially in your removal, but at the end of the day it's bearable. What's miserable is that it further restricts you in your design space, because it's yet another significant player of the metagame that you have to take into account, thus further forcing to resort to certain cards that can deal with it. It's somewhat similar to Show&Tell, Stormcombo, Planeswalkers, because their bare existence obliges you to have an answer to them, which is the same case with TNN.

Also, please don't start the Brainstorm discussion again. If one thing has become clear over the years, it's that Brainstorm won't ever be banned, for the simple reason that it's the main incentive to play the format.

[DragoFireheart]

And brainstorm decks are 6 of the top 7 and 10 of the top 13. Are you sure you're complaining about the right card?

edit: http://www.tcdecks.net/mostplayedcards.php

TNN is the 20th most played card. Brainstorm has been #1 for at least the last 4 years, usually by a wide margin. In fact, stoneforge mystic is #7 on that list.

I could rewrite your statement: Tourney data through 1-26-14 has been updated on thecouncil and SFM decks are #1, #2, #3 and #4

Last time I checked, I can't turn my Brainstorm sideways to win the game.

[Arsenal]

And brainstorm decks are 6 of the top 7 and 10 of the top 13. Are you sure you're complaining about the right card?

edit: http://www.tcdecks.net/mostplayedcards.php

TNN is the 20th most played card. Brainstorm has been #1 for at least the last 4 years, usually by a wide margin. In fact, stoneforge mystic is #7 on that list.

I could rewrite your statement: Tourney data through 1-26-14 has been updated on thecouncil and SFM decks are #1, #2, #3 and #4

I don't really care how played a card is, I care about format diversity. Since November 1st, 2013, the format's diversity has been reduced. I have provided pages upon pages of data to confirm that. I have yet to see anyone provide data that refutes my position.

[DragoFireheart]

I have yet to see anyone provide data that refutes my position.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/f...-Decks-to-Beat

FORMAT DIVERSITY!

[testing32]

I don't really care how played a card is, I care about format diversity. Since November 1st, 2013, the format's diversity has been reduced. I have provided pages upon pages of data to confirm that. I have yet to see anyone provide data that refutes my position.

I would argue that brainstorm reduces the formats diversity much more than TNN does.

[DragoFireheart]

I would argue that brainstorm reduces the formats diversity much more than TNN does.

You could argue that.

Just like the 3249 people before you did!

[Arsenal]

I would argue that brainstorm reduces the formats diversity much more than TNN does.

Calling Patriot and Sneak & Show "Brainstorm decks" is like calling RUG Delver and Lands "Wasteland decks". And decks not running Brainstorm have done fine historically (until power creep occurs); Zoo in 2011 before Delver of Secrets, Jund in 2013 before TNN, Maverick in 2012/13, Death & Taxes currently, etc.

[testing32]

You could argue that.

Just like the 3249 people before you did!

I know, it's a pointless exercise. But really this whole thread is.

It does seems misplaced to complain about TNN, just because it's new, when it is far from the most egregious offender. I want to be able to play a plateau or Rock again without feeling bad about myself.

[Higgs]

I've seen people compare Brainstorm to Ancestral Recall. But we have a thread here comparing Stoneforge Mystic to Oath of Druids so I guess some people just have wild imaginations.

[Arsenal]

I know, it's a pointless exercise. But really this whole thread is.

It does seems misplaced to complain about TNN, just because it's new, when it is far from the most egregious offender. I want to be able to play a plateau or Rock again without feeling bad about myself.

But Brainstorm didn't kill Plateau (Zoo), Delver of Secrets did. Pre-Delver, Zoo was top tier. Rock was never that good as Jund was/is just better positioned against more of the format, Brainstorm certainly has nothing to do with Rock languishing in tier 2 since forever. You can still play Rock and be just as competitive now as you would've been 3-5 years ago.

[Zombie]

I've seen people compare Brainstorm to Ancestral Recall. But we have a thread here comparing Stoneforge Mystic to Oath of Druids so I guess some people just have wild imaginations.

Well, I'm playing Tinker, Academy and Ancestral in one deck, so I guess...?

[testing32]

But Brainstorm didn't kill Plateau (Zoo), Delver of Secrets did. Pre-Delver, Zoo was top tier. Rock was never that good as Jund was/is just better positioned against more of the format, Brainstorm certainly has nothing to do with Rock languishing in tier 2 since forever. You can still play Rock and be just as competitive now as you would've been 3-5 years ago.

I disagree. Right before New Phyrexia, Rock went back to back finals in SCG Opens while Jund wasn't even a deck.

Brainstorm has everything to do with non-blue midrange and aggro decks being tier two.

[Lemnear]

Well, I'm playing Tinker, Academy and Ancestral in one deck, so I guess...?

Luv ya man :)

[Arsenal]

I disagree. Right before New Phyrexia, Rock went back to back finals in SCG Opens while Jund wasn't even a deck.

Brainstorm has everything to do with non-blue midrange and aggro decks being tier two.

Jund wasn't a deck until RTR came out, I thought it was obvious that I was talking about BGx Midrange decks post-RTR. Sure, before Jund was a deck, I suppose that Rock would have to be better than a deck that didn't exist.

Also, non-blue midrange and aggro decks have done just fine historically. Zoo, Maverick, Jund, D&T, etc. All of these decks were/are top tier 1 at one time and Brainstorm wasn't the reason why any of them fell off the map, it was power creep in the form of Delver of Secrets (Zoo), True-Name Nemesis (Jund), etc.

If Jund was able to average 4th place from Jan-Oct 2013 while Brainstorm was in the format, why did it drop down to a 16th place average from Nov 2013-Jan 2014 while Brainstorm was still in the format? What did Brainstorm do in that October to November timeframe that made Jund tier 2?

[testing32]

Jund wasn't a deck until RTR came out, I thought it was obvious that I was talking about BGx Midrange decks post-RTR. Sure, before Jund was a deck, I suppose that Rock would have to be better than a deck that didn't exist.

Also, non-blue midrange and aggro decks have done just fine historically. Zoo, Maverick, Jund, D&T, etc. All of these decks were/are top tier 1 at one time and Brainstorm wasn't the reason why any of them fell off the map, it was power creep in the form of Delver of Secrets (Zoo), True-Name Nemesis (Jund), etc.

If Jund was able to average 4th place from Jan-Oct 2013 while Brainstorm was in the format, why did it drop down to a 16th place average from Nov 2013-Jan 2014 while Brainstorm was still in the format? What did Brainstorm do in that October to November timeframe that made Jund tier 2?

Nobody is disagreeing with you that TNN is the reason that Jund is gone. I liked the deck too but that is what happens when new, better cards are printed. Esper and goblins went away after deathrite got printed. It happens almost every time a legacy playable is printed. You can't ban TNN then declare balance restored as the blue dominance continues.

I like the poll with this thread. It gives perspective. At one time 20% of people thought goyf should get the axe.

edit - it's very rare that you can stick with your pet deck forever. they die and you need to move on (RIP folk). Your posts sound like stage 2 of the grieving process.

edit 2 - Most people here have lost. I know I have (Rock, Maverick). I know it might be too soon for this but.. when you feel up for it you might want to check out the Team America thread. I know it's not Jund but... you still get to play hymn, drs, goyf and liliana.