All B/R update speculation.

[Nielsie]

I dismiss the strange idea that a deck that was BEFORE and after the printing of TNN a "niche deck" (aka < 3% of metagame presence worldwide) can blame the said Meerfolk for it's problems alone. That's all I said to the topic and there is nothing selective in that.

I usually keep discussion civil and productive, but excuse me getting salty if a completely new member in this forum starts his "productive" post with asking "if I live under a rock" and makes bold statements which are plain false (if you look up data from TheCouncil), just because he does not agree with my POV that "former top tier, now < 3% = dead". It's free to question my harsh definition here, but starting it in such a way is ass and gets the favor returned.

You however did not disagree or point to possible weaknesses in my definition/Proof me wrong with data. You choose to insult me for no reason and even needed to create a strawman for it ... that's just classy dood *SlowClap*

People like you are forcing Legacy in the direction of Modern: a metagame of 8 decks, the rest of the field has no chance.

A deck that can win tournaments is not dead. Which of the data I provided was false or wrong? I merely showed that Goblins was more than capable of winning big tournaments before TNN. A dead deck doesn't win tournaments, a dead deck doesn't make the DTB section of this forum! It is a deck that has no chance at all. Take Zoo for example. When was the last time this deck won something meaningfull?

I just want to make clear that it is very important for Legacy that people keep playing 3% decks. When people stop doing this because these decks make no chance at all, we end up with the same format as Modern: a dull metagame in which only a few decks are a meaningfull choice to win. Is this what you want?

[Lemnear]

People like you are forcing Legacy in the direction of Modern: a metagame of 8 decks, the rest of the field has no chance.

A deck that can win tournaments is not dead. Which of the data I provided was false or wrong? I merely showed that Goblins was more than capable of winning big tournaments before TNN. A dead deck doesn't win tournaments, a dead deck doesn't make the DTB section of this forum! It is a deck that has no chance at all. Take Zoo for example. When was the last time this deck won something meaningfull?

I just want to make clear that it is very important for Legacy that people keep playing 3% decks. When people stop doing this because these decks make no chance at all, we end up with the same format as Modern: a dull metagame in which only a few decks are a meaningfull choice to win. Is this what you want?

Nonsense. In Legacy there is no thing like "no chance across the whole metagame" and I see no reason why forcing people to adapt leads Legacy the way of Modern in which WotC reacts to peoples bitching and removing the need to metagame with a decree in Form of the B&R list. Waving the Modern-flag here is yellow-press-Argumentation. Can you give me any indication that not banning TNN eliminates the whole bunch of niche decks from legacy?

Zoo? Try this one I remembered here on the Forum: Top 8 SCG Seattle

There are still a load of fringe decks making top 16 appearances and that's the Beauty of Legacy. That did not change with TNN. There's is no point in blaming TNN for a meta full of sweepers and shedding tears about Goblins being hit sooooo hard by the hate people have in stock for TNN while Elves still win tournaments.

I'm not going to explain to you the difference of modern and Legacy. Keep your thin-aired analogies for yourself or come up with substance

[Echelon]

Maybe someone should just bother playing Zoo again... Who knows how it'll do.

I for one am toying with the idea of running a 40 euro UR Gelectrode + Curiosity deck the next event I go to, simply because it can burn down every creature not called Nimble Mongoose or TNN since I don't see any S&T or Reanimator at my local meta. Just have to work on my manabase a little bit...

[Arsenal]

1. I'm not crying

2. My entire point was that there are quite a few top tier decks in modern (RUG delver, Jund, UR Delver, Junk, Merfolk) where 75% of the decks overlap with their Legacy counterparts, so how on earth is Wizards not going to make them some watered-down version of already existing Legacy decks?

If you believe that RUG Delver, Merfolk and UR Delver are among the top tier in Modern, that just goes to show how little you understand about the format. Aside from Jund and Junk/Rock, which are now crippled/dead, none of those decks are close to the top tier at all. The top tier includes Jund/Rock (90% Legacy overlap, unsurprisingly, it represented an unhealthy portion of the meta), Pod decks (no Legacy overlap), Tron (no Legacy overlap), UWR Control (no Legacy overlap), Twin Exarch (no Legacy overlap) and Affinity (far, far more competitive in Modern than it's Legacy counterpart).

And so what if there's card overlap? A good card is a good card and some overlap will be inevitable. Snapcaster Mage saw play in Standard and sees play in Modern, Legacy and Vintage currently. Supreme Verdict sees play in Standard, Modern and Legacy. Just because there is a deck in Modern that shares cards with a deck in Legacy doesn't mean that Modern is trying to be a watered down Legacy.

Seriously, stop trying to compare the two formats. They have mostly different card pools, completely different objectives, a completely different targeted player base, etc. Trying to draw any conclusions on Modern based off what Legacy does/doesn't do is just dumb.

[PirateKing]

So when is the next announcement?

[Megadeus]

So when is the next announcement?

Soon. We should all begin the arguments now.

[Feaor]

So when is the next announcement?

April 28th is the next announcement. Cue circular discussion of Earthcraft, Mind Twist, Black Vise, followed by suggestions of ridiculous cards like Survival and Mental Misstep.

[Megadeus]

COntract from Below anyone?

[HSCK]

April 28th is the next announcement. Cue circular discussion of Earthcraft, Mind Twist, Black Vise, followed by suggestions of ridiculous cards like Survival and Mental Misstep.

You forgot TNN in the ridiculous category for being banned.

Contract seems totally fair, I mean, what if you ante up a beta dual?

[Feaor]

You forgot TNN in the ridiculous category for being banned.

Contract seems totally fair, I mean, what if you ante up a beta dual?

Nice try Troll. I would tell you do go look at data but apparently TC Decks isn't actually Data.

[Arsenal]

Guys, don't you remember? Unbannings have never (and will never) had any impact whatsoever on the format.

Also, the only data that everyone should be using to discuss what the Feb 2014 meta looks like is all right here: http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...game-analysis/. Marvel at the narrow data from November 1st, 2013! Soooo much value!!!

[HSCK]

Remember all those Opens that Maverick top 8'ed.....oh wait. New spec since the B/R won't be up for awhile, Basilisk type creatures. Ones that can be Abrupt Decay'ed or Bolt'ed too, especially since the format's so warped by TNN they're good!

[Arsenal]

September-November 2013:

Tarmogeddon 8 - 5 out of 188: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11682&iddeck=85513

SCG Philly - 6 out of 280: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11710&iddeck=85724

Legacy Ovino 8 - 2 out of 407: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11877&iddeck=86942

GPT Valencia - 2 out of 134: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11975&iddeck=87714

Legacy Jouernaut 2 - 6 out of 167: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12180&iddeck=89263

BoM Last 3 Bye Trial - 4 out of 279: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12123&iddeck=88841

BoM Last 3 Bye Trial - 5 out of 279: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12123&iddeck=88842

SCG Los Angeles - 8 out of 281: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12129&iddeck=88897

BoM Main Event - 8 out of 695: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12122&iddeck=88837

Maverick was doing just fine globally in the 2 months preceeding TNN and still could take advantage of a meta new to TNN in November. I have data to support my position that Maverick was still a meta consideration pre-TNN... do you have any data to support your position that it was not?

EDIT: Took out a Top 16 SCG Los Angeles finish due to misidentification.

[DragoFireheart]

So Team America has replaced Shardless BUG as the primer BUG deck?

[Megadeus]

So Team America has replaced Shardless BUG as the primer BUG deck?

Why cast a 2/2 that might draw 3 cards when you can cast a 5/5 flier and simply win the game?

[Zilla]

Why cast a 2/2 that might draw 3 cards when you can cast a 5/5 flier and simply win the game?

Yup. 5/5 Flyer > TNN. Since TNN's printing, Team America is a much better metagame choice than Shardless.

[Zombie]

Why cast a 2/2 that might draw 3 cards when you can cast a 5/5 flier and simply win the game?

And why get stalled by a TNN and then have your agents/strixes mauled by an unblockable Jitte when Stalker resists that and races naked TNN?

[Arsenal]

The decks that can support SFM-TNN or ignore SFM-TNN will rise to the top. All the other decks, even if they're in colors that have theoretical TNN answers, will sink to the bottom. The data since November 2013 has shown this to be the case; the only abberation is Miracles, but I suspect that many Miracles players just play Blade Control now (could be wrong).

[FieryBalrog]

Stoneforge was fine too before TNN. In this format it certainly wasn't oppressive.

TNN is such a dumb, non-interactive and pointless card I hope it gets banned on principle alone. "Yes, what this format needs is a 3-mana Blue Progenitus... who can be equipped"

Stellar card design there.

[2Rach]

SCG Los Angeles - 13 out of 281: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12129&iddeck=88902

As the guy who ran the deck, this is not Maverick. It's just SCG being bad at deck names. It's Junk.