[SCD] True-Name Nemesis

[Dzra]

Or at least errata it. q_q Sloppy design is sloppy.

[Poron]

Innocent Blood, Diabolic Edict, Massacre, Zealous Persecution, Golgari Charm, Toxic Deluge.

Before, we used black just in combo and reanimator (which are combo anyway).
Today black might be the next color for control over creatures.

BUG can pack:

Abrupt Decay
Krosan Grip
anything mentioned above.

and also Jace, Brainstorm and Tombstalker/Goyf.


next meta big dog, imho

[Dzra]

I'm certainly not saying that the format cannot handle True-Name Nemesis or even that I personally have had much trouble against it. I'm just saying that it is lazy and short-sighted design and that the game would have been better off without it (at least in its current incarnation).

[Poron]

imho it's just a shift. What should be banned is turn 0 or turn 1 combo win (SnT, Storm decks).

Because it kills anything that doesn't play REB or Force of Will (that's also why Volcanic Island are so pricey today)

TNN is not a problem. it just requires a shift to black control which is a breaking news.. the problem is with cards that require mandatory 4 Force of Will (and then 16+ blue cards) maindeck

[Julian23]

Because it kills anything that doesn't play REB or Force of Will

You see, that's the problem with people like you.

[JanoschEausH]

imho it's just a shift. What should be banned is turn 0 or turn 1 combo win (SnT, Storm decks).

Because it kills anything that doesn't play REB or Force of Will (that's also why Volcanic Island are so pricey today)

TNN is not a problem. it just requires a shift to black control which is a breaking news.. the problem is with cards that require mandatory 4 Force of Will (and then 16+ blue cards) maindeck

How about you quit here and start playing modern. Have fun.

Besides: What we need is a non-symetrical -x/-x for opponent creatures instant which is easy to cast. The only card which is similiar to this is Marsh Casualties which is bad obviously.

[Poron]

You see, that's the problem with people like you.

may be. I go Bug or Grixis for now

[TsumiBand]

Missed your chance.

Not banned.

I ain't figure it would be!

Let's see about that Red Pyroclasm with 'cannot be prevented' now. Actually I bet this never happens either because I seem to recall reading something years ago about how such an effect is too subversive or makes it too easy for Red to shore up its protection weakness.

Not doing a thing because it is fundamentally subversive. Imagine that.

Anyway, maybe it's just time to shut up and play Blouses. Unstable Mutation is a good card.

sent from phone, don't be a dick

[aluisiocsantos]

Storms is just 02 archetypes. TNN is already the 20th most used cards in Legacy according to this: http://www.tcdecks.net/mostplayedcar...ss=1&anio=2014 The other cards? Most of them go in the same deck as him. Anything running blue is running TNN (and jokingly perhaps even Storm lol) and it doesn't need an entire deck built around it like combo decks - it's just another threat, and a deadly one - now you're almost forced to mulligan till a Golgari Charm our a Pyroblast pops up in your hand.

Might as well as put REB maindeck.

[DragoFireheart]

Storms is just 02 archetypes. TNN is already the 20th most used cards in Legacy according to this: http://www.tcdecks.net/mostplayedcar...ss=1&anio=2014 The other cards? Most of them go in the same deck as him. Anything running blue is running TNN (and jokingly perhaps even Storm lol) and it doesn't need an entire deck built around it like combo decks - it's just another threat, and a deadly one - now you're almost forced to mulligan till a Golgari Charm our a Pyroblast pops up in your hand.

Might as well as put REB maindeck.

Well at least it doesn't have the Goyf syndrome of stopping itself and creating stalemate for several turns.

[Arsenal]

Might as well as put REB maindeck.

Pretty sure Mr. Miracle Joe Lossett was running 2 maindeck REB in his UWr Miracles list recently.

[DragoFireheart]

Pretty sure Mr. Miracle Joe Lossett was running 2 maindeck REB in his UWr Miracles list recently.

That reminds me, how well would Painters do in this meta?

I hear playing a painter with 8 REBs and choosing blue so that SoFi falls off is pretty cool.

[Arsenal]

That reminds me, how well would Painters do in this meta?

I hear playing a painter with 8 REBs and choosing blue so that SoFi falls off is pretty cool.

Although they run multiple Moon effects, I thought that Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay (big one) just makes Painters bad. Deathrite Shaman allows the player to still operate under a resolved Moon effect and Abrupt Decay can just blow them out unless they also have an active Welder. Team America is a pretty good deck right now and it runs 4 of each of those cards in addition to countermagic.

[DragoFireheart]

Although they run multiple Moon effects, I thought that Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay (big one) just makes Painters bad. Deathrite Shaman allows the player to still operate under a resolved Moon effect and Abrupt Decay can just blow them out unless they also have an active Welder. Team America is a pretty good deck right now and it runs 4 of each of those cards in addition to countermagic.

The theory is that TNN decks would push out most of the DRS/AD decks while Painters would prey on TNN decks.

[Arsenal]

The theory is that TNN decks would push out most of the DRS/AD decks while Painters would prey on TNN decks.

TNN has pushed Jund out, but not Team America because Team America runs Brainstorm (can find it's TNN answers) and Tombstalker (doesn't care about TNN unless Equipped).

[DragoFireheart]

TNN has pushed Jund out, but not Team America because Team America runs Brainstorm (can find it's TNN answers) and Tombstalker (doesn't care about TNN unless Equipped).

Bloodmoon is still pretty nasty against BUG. They need to make specific plays or they risk getting blown out.

[HSCK]

TNN has pushed Jund out, but not Team America because Team America runs Brainstorm (can find it's TNN answers) and Tombstalker (doesn't care about TNN unless Equipped).

By what measure has Jund been pushed out...?

[Arsenal]

By what measure has Jund been pushed out...?

My adjusted data so far shows that Jund was actually performing even better than thecouncil's data showed, which is crazy considering Jund averaged 4th place from Jan-Oct 2013. I'll release my full findings when I'm done, but if my adjusted data is compared to your adjusted data, Jund was basically king of the format pre-TNN.

Also, I'm not sure what you're doing, but I'm collecting and adjusting data for all of 2013 and 2014, then dividing it into Jan-Oct 2013 (pre-TNN) and Nov 2013-Jan 2014 (post-TNN) so that we can see trends and shifts before/after TNN entered Legacy. If you just look at 1 month and nothing else, it doesn't really tell you much.

[HSCK]

So instead of king it's now just a tier 1 deck? I don't think that's being "pushed out." Using the adjusted data Team America and UWR Delver are the two best decks in the format and only sport a pair of TNNs between both decks. What is it about those two decks that make them able to succeed and not Jund? The past two months have yielded 11 decks that have a good chance of making it to the elimination rounds of 6+ round tournaments.

TNN is obviously a huge player in the meta, but the best two decks are Delver decks that have either DRS/Tarmo or SFM to complement them. Miracles is also a huge player in the metagame, as is Elves alongside two variations of Blade decks.

Those three are just a shade above Jund in terms of performance. So if Jund was putting up numbers that are better than what Team America is putting up now is that a good thing or bad thing in terms of health?

[Arsenal]

I edited, so you prolly didn't see it, but drawing conclusions from a couple months and not looking at what the meta looked like pre-TNN is a mistake, imo. I'm going to provide adjusted data for Jan-Oct 2013 (10 months of Legacy pre-TNN) and Nov 2013-Jan 2014 (Legacy post-TNN, but I plan on actually stopping at August 2014 as that will be 10 months post-TNN).