This debate lost any sense the minute drocker put DRS, TNN, SFM and Goyf on list of cards hit by Spell Pierce.
Spell Pierce
Instant
"Counter target noncreature spell unless its controller pays 2."
@Drocker
Pierce is a fantastic card. I doubt this card will ever be replaced in RUG. Healthy debate has never hurt anyone
@BDL
I don't remember drocker saying that, it was my understanding he listed a bunch of cards which Snare did not hit (but also a few that Pierce didn't either, which is why I said he was giving an unfair analysis).
Originally Posted by rlesko
@Drocker
Pierce is a fantastic card. I doubt this card will ever be replaced in RUG. Healthy debate has never hurt anyone
@BDL
I don't remember drocker saying that, it was my understanding he listed a bunch of cards which Snare did not hit (but also a few that Pierce didn't either, which is why I said he was giving an unfair analysis)./senselessness
How crazy would Primal Rage be for TNN hate?
Card Name: Primal Rage
Mana Cost:
Types: Enchantment
Card Text: Creatures you control have trample.
Bad.How crazy would Primal Rage be for TNN hate?
Card Name: Primal Rage
Mana Cost:
Types: Enchantment
Card Text: Creatures you control have trample.
It doesn't help Mongoose to survive the hit by TNN. It makes little to nothing with Delver. So it just makes Goyf trample through TNN, but they must not have Jitte.
Is Rancor any good? It's fast, it gives bonus and as such, it may help to race TNN or even win before TNN enters the game. Sadly, it can't enchant Mongoose, but Priaml Rage wouldn't be better in it's place.
Are you joking/trolling?
"White decks", in other words D&T, love to face Delver decks, and Canadian above all, because it's one of their strongest matchups.
Honestly it doesn't seem like you played much Legacy lately.
Snare is also another answert to Spirit of Labyrinth, assuming they don't have Vial. I might go with 3 Snare/2 Pierce makeup, have 1-2 Sulfur Elementals, 1 Rough/Tumble, 0 Submerges in the SB.
Our d&t mu is kinda 40:60 and feels like worse :D
I personally like PhanTom_It's configuration, although i dislike having no submerge in the board.submerge is (if you board it in against any deck) by far the best card in deck and you always want to have a lot of them.
I tested the D&T Mu the last couple of days with my friend and Sulfur elemental gets his well deserved 1-2 slots in the sb.
The same for snare.
Snare is obv. the best counter for sfm and her ugly friends :D
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
My problem with spell snare isn't a lack of targets. It's not going to sit in your hand forever with no viable targets forever. My problem with spell snare is that the only 2 cards/plays that it is really the best possible play against are things like Tarmogoyf and SFM fetching Jitte/SoXaY, and there are a few very popular MUs where it can be very bad.
Stifling the batterskull germ token can be a much better tempo play than spell snaring the SFM, which can largely neutralize the play, where Jitte/Sword will make every future threat much worse.
Any of the x/1s are usually better answered by something like Forked bolt or fire. Any storm combo pieces are adequately answered by spell pierce, while spell snare only hits a few limited targets. And while spell snare does have targets in the storm match up, they are the targets on the terminal end of the chain, when they are more likely to have already hit you with a duress or silence, making them much worse. Spell snare also does almost nothing in the SnS mu.
In general there are very few must stop 2 drop creatures, where there are many must stop spells, which is why I usually max out spell pierce without even touching spell snares. I think I would also go reaching for an extra Fire/Forked bolt or even a maindeck ancient grudge before I go looking for spell snare. Ancient grudge is by far the best answer to stone forge mystic/any equipment, taking out equipment after they attack and then they are safe can lead to big blowouts or even just the loss of multiple turns of tapping down to play sfm, then activate, then equip. That can be 6 mana and 3 turns.
If you really expect to be facing a lot of DnT, I think it is very easy to swing the MU in our favor through more sulfur elementals. The only reason you don't see more on a regular basis, is because it is not an incredibly popular archetype compared to blade decks, ect.
I like the thought on Ancient Grudge and tempo gain against SFM. But really: Grudge main? It does very little in Storm matchup. Snare does at least something, and you may always counter the CRit or the set-up ITs, if you feel that the end spell will be protected somehow. Same goes for Goyf, Grudge won't help you any way.
Snare is meant to be an overall answer for anything from Thalia through Counterbalance to Burning Wish. It has different applications than Pierce and it's used in different way. Also, it's a hard counter in situation where Pierce is a blank. I can't imagine playing without at least one.
@that0neguy:
Nice comparison dude !
Here are some of my thoughts:
First if all,they both are awesome but slightly different.
Against Storm,Spell Snare remains the better counter because it has to be discarded
before he goes into the combo.
It's impossible to circumvent Spell Snare without a discard spell.spell pierce on the other hand can be played around.
The only argument for spell pierce is the sneakshow mu,where spell snare is almost a dead card.
Having multiple answers to stoneforge mystic is great because now our opponent has to fear spell snare,lightning bolt and stifle.
So there is the question: why not splitting if both cards have their pros and cons?
I personally made the experience that i always had the wrong copy in hand so i quit splitting.
Run 3-4 copies of either pierce or snare and the other one in the sb for instance.
Finall It's up to you :-)
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
I'm just saying, I would consider grudge main before I would consider spell snare to shore up a sfm mu. There is starting to be a solid number of high impact, important targets with so many decks packing equipment, Baleful strix, Shardless Agent, Aether vial, Phyrexian revoker, Ensnaring bridge.
As for Spell snare in the storm mu: Spell snare can not fight silence at all, and if they do have the discard spell, and Spell snare is your only interaction point against them, you don't have any way to interact against them. You never run into a similar problem with spell pierce.
Against Sneak and show you have 0 maindeck targets.
The fact that it can rarely participate in any counterspell wars or fight over removal spells has always bugged me as well.
Another point in spell snares favor though would be a late game counterbalance.
In a game plan where the plan is to drop a threat, protect the threat, and try not to die. I think spell pierces ability to resolve and protect our threats is probably its most important aspect.
That's why I support one Snare main. As such, it won't clog your hand, and chances are you'll have it in mid/late game when you need to stop CB/IT/w-e while Dazes and Pierces are dead. Also, it's still quite good against SFM and Goyf, early-to-late game.
I think I'll try one of Grudge main. Batterskull is so annoying that it can't be ignored, and the flashback may be relevant against all the SFM.dec around.
Disenchant main? That's so 1994.
Silence is ran only in Tes though. Most of the Storm combo decks you will find in tournaments are ANT and they don't run Silence.
Is it true though that vs Sneak Show is completely dead. In counter wars, it counters Counterspell and that's it. But you are focusing too much on the things that Snare can't do. It has dozens of good targets in all of the top tier decks except Sneak and Show. In a game plan where your plan is to drop a threat and protect it, you also need to make sure that the threat goes through opponent's Tarmogoyfs (and Strixes, and Batterskulls, and Mogg War Marshall, Scryb Ranger etc.)
I'd play Grudge main over main deck Spell Snare only if I knew that half of the meta is Blade.decks and the other half Affinity...
Are you into Jazz? Have a look at the Lp's I have for sale on Discogs!
Personally, with TNN taking over the format, I think that the era of RUG's unquestioned dominance has come to an end because its colors don't offer enough viable options to compete in the new Legacy environment. Everyone who's willing to concede that should probably shift to BUG now.
The demise of RUG is greatly exaggerated. We are still the quintessential tempo deck. Wherever stifling fetches and wasting lands is good we'll be there.
Exactly. I fear SFM->BSkull much more than some Hill Giant for 1UU.
RUG Delver.decs are the Spartans, TNN.decs are the Persians and you are an Arcadian.
Said like someone who has a bad matchup vs RUG.
RUG will evolve, adapt. Maybe it will sit on the sidelines for a while. People will start forgetting how to protect their lands and fetch properly. And then Stifle will be back. :)
I've just acquired a playset of Trops and Volcanics so I'm looking into building Threshold. I honestly know very little about the deck and how it matches up against the meta (beyond understanding how to play magic decently in general - I currently run Merfolk, TES, and Dredge).
I was wondering how it handles the meta, what its weaknesses are, where it shines, and any advice for someone looking to get into it (Such as, if you had a chance to start over and build a deck in legacy, would you build Threshold again now that you've experienced it or would you look elsewhere?)
Thanks guys, appreciate it! (:
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle".
- Albert Einstein
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