[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

[Bed Decks Palyer]

No sane person would spend 2-3k fixed amount on a hobby with no real additional costs and potential for a significant return? I think you need to reexamine this premise

Depends. The last time my deck was nerfed, I sleeved Tundras and Strands and continued rocking. It isn't that simple for a guy that is new to the game, doesn't have the UW lands not to mention the staples.

If I'd be a total MtG virgin, and someone came to me and told me "c'mon, try this game" and I'd be hooked like I was back in 1996 and then he'd told me the pricetag, and then I'd learn that for this price I may play one the many possible decks and not even be sure I'd be winning one of those tournaments with asses cracking here and there like ripe walnuts... idk. I'd play Settlers, I guess.

And prateta, you owe me a buck. Although I checked the MKM and seen that there are just two insanely priced Willows (of whom I'd love to have the signed one), I still bought the set. But it's ok, I owe you a glass, without this I'd never force myself into the purchase...

[prateta]

If I'd be a total MtG virgin, and someone came to me and told me "c'mon, try this game" and I'd be hooked like I was back in 1996 and then he'd told me the pricetag, and then I'd learn that for this price I may play one the many possible decks and not even be sure I'd be winning one of those tournaments with asses cracking here and there like ripe walnuts... idk. I'd play Settlers, I guess.

And prateta, you owe me a buck. Although I checked the MKM and seen that there are just two insanely priced Willows (of whom I'd love to have the signed one), I still bought the set. But it's ok, I owe you a glass, without this I'd never force myself into the purchase...

Haven't thought about the buy-in from a MtG virgin perspective. Your point is very valid I think.

And don't worry about the Willows, crazier shit happened, those girls will earn you some money for sure! But yeah, next time I have to pay more attention when browsing mtgstocks. Luckily my 2 orders got cancelled as the seller panicked too. So I only (possibly) lost 3 euros for 2 playsets.

[Benrobnu]

If you put it like this, it actually makes sense. I have to rephrase then: Not many people can afford to spend 3k fixed on a hobby. Which is ok, sure, I'm no commie. But buy-ins that high are hurting eternal formats. But this has been said too many times, no need to repeat that. We should be bitching about prices in this topic, and those are damn high! :-D

I'm just wondering... what triggered this massive price increase we are experiencing in the past few months?

I'm wondering the same thing. I had the opportunity to buy a set of MPR wastelands for $600 three months ago and the price had been so static I figured I could just get them later there's other things I wanted instead (Miracles cards WOOOOO!). Needless to say I seriously regret this decision as they currently they are over 3 times that amount and something has to have caused it.

[prateta]

I'm wondering the same thing. I had the opportunity to buy a set of MPR wastelands for $600 three months ago and the price had been so static I figured I could just get them later there's other things I wanted instead (Miracles cards WOOOOO!). Needless to say I seriously regret this decision they are over 3 times that and something has to have caused it.

Well at least cards like Wasteland, Port, FOW... they are all reprintable. Considering the high price of duals, Legacy would be perfectly fine (price-wise) if all high dollar cards would get reprinted. The decks would still cost $1000+ if you'd want to play more colors. Which is still cool if you want Legacy to be (for some reason) unavailable for some sort of people. I still think these reprints will happen, but it might only be my wishful thinking.

I like Legacy for its diversity. It's fun, you get to play strong cards and old cards with beautiful arts. I'm capable to spend a lot of money on it, as are thousands of other people. But wouldn't it be more fun if you could play, let's say 10 different decks without having $20 000 in MtG cards?

[Benrobnu]

Well at least cards like Wasteland, Port, FOW... they are all reprintable. Considering the high price of duals, Legacy would be perfectly fine (price-wise) if all high dollar cards would get reprinted. The decks would still cost $1000+ if you'd want to play more colors. Which is still cool if you want Legacy to be (for some reason) unavailable for some sort of people. I still think these reprints will happen, but it might only be my wishful thinking.

I like Legacy for its diversity. It's fun, you get to play strong cards and old cards with beautiful arts. I'm capable to spend a lot of money on it, as are thousands of other people. But wouldn't it be more fun if you could play, let's say 10 different decks without having $20 000 in MtG cards?

The diversity, strength of the cards, complexity of interactions, amount of risk and the people that play legacy are the biggest draw to the format for myself. I do wish it was easier to switch between decks but I think part of what keeps the format diverse is the financial incentive to master the deck you have.

To focus strictly on Wasteland, it's pretty clear that Wizards would never allow the card in standard at this point, so it was really only a matter of how long it took this to happen.

[shrubs]

Could this trend in rising prices be caused by a more stable economy than we had a few years ago? In that people now have more discretionary income and thus are willing to pay more for luxuries.

I'm not saying that this is the only factor, with Legacy attendance on the rise etc, but perhaps a contributing factor.

Regardless I have done zero research and am only throwing this out as a hypothesis.

[Benrobnu]

Could this trend in rising prices be caused by a more stable economy than we had a few years ago? In that people now have more discretionary income and thus are willing to pay more for luxuries.

I'm not saying that this is the only factor, with Legacy attendance on the rise etc, but perhaps a contributing factor.

Regardless I have done zero research and am only throwing this out as a hypothesis.

It sounds really good to me!

[workingdude]

Indeed. MCM runs dry on cards atm. It frightens me.

Autumn Willow? I see about 250 copies on various sites that are priced below 50 cents. Anyone feel like spending 125$ and never getting rid of them?

[mini1337s]

I want us all to exercise some critical thinking in this thread. For starters, when referring to TCGplayer or MTGStocks.com prices, also note the quantity available, or frequency of hits in that price range.

Example:

• Autumn Willow has one seller with quantity 4 at $15. Daily historical shows copies at <$0.50 yesterday (3/18/14)
• Wasteland has multiple sellers with quantity >4 around $140. Historical shows a gradual uptrend over 3 months.

One of these is legitimate demand. The other is market manipulation or unrealistic pricing. Please only discuss the one with legitimate price creep, and back up the discussion with both price AND quantity.

Useful links:
www.mtgstocks.com/interests
www.mtgprice.com
www.apathyhouse.com
magic.tcgplayer.com

Agreed and this is a perfect example of the current problem in the Magic economy. Players/speculators (particularly newer speculators) will limit their price knowledge to one or two sources, when there are many more at play. People will panic buy when they see nominal increases on semi-playable/untested cards to avoid getting burned later. All that happens is that they artificially inflate prices based on unfounded speculation.

Savvier sellers have realized they control the market price of cards and can generate artificial spikes that will turn into legitimate, albeit due to panic, demand. Realizing that so many people use MTGstocks as their sole pricing resource, they can accumulate a decent reserve of a card with a limited print run (let’s say Runed Halo as an example), buy up the entire stock on a single day and list their own copies at an inflated price, and players will buy into it so they don’t miss out on the next big thing. Other retailers will follow suit, and before you know it, bulk rares are selling for $15. The seller who starts the trend quickly moves their stock while the price is high, and eventually people realized they were suckered in and it becomes a game of one fool trying to sell to a greater fool.

In cases like Starcitygames, they raise prices based on legitimate demand; they have dedicated team keeping track of competitor’s prices as well as the demand/sales history in their own store and they make calculated price increases based on that information. Occasionally they will buy out entire market places of a single card so they can relist at a higher price, but this generally only happens with older cards that have proven playability and a high level of collectability (I.E. Chains or Tabernacle). I’m not SCG’s number 1 cheerleader by any means, but I understand that their increase decisions are well-researched and warranted to remain competitive in the marketplace.

I guess my point is that people pay too much attention to MTGstocks and not enough attention to long-term tournament results. If they really want to profit, they won’t buy into the latest tech, rather, they should calculate what decks/strategies are strongest in a format’s metagame, and buy cards based on that. For example, I did this with Death and Taxes when it started to consistently put up Top 8 performances (pre-TNN). Sure I didn’t get my Ports for $5, but I did get them for $30 when it was clear they were a legitimate role player in that deck. People need to carefully observe a format as well as a large number of retailors before making a purchase decision.

[Tanith]

Agreed and this is a perfect example of the current problem in the Magic economy. Players/speculators (particularly newer speculators) will limit their price knowledge to one or two sources, when there are many more at play. People will panic buy when they see nominal increases on semi-playable/untested cards to avoid getting burned later. All that happens is that they artificially inflate prices based on unfounded speculation.

Savvier sellers have realized they control the market price of cards and can generate artificial spikes that will turn into legitimate, albeit due to panic, demand. Realizing that so many people use MTGstocks as their sole pricing resource, they can accumulate a decent reserve of a card with a limited print run (let’s say Runed Halo as an example), buy up the entire stock on a single day and list their own copies at an inflated price, and players will buy into it so they don’t miss out on the next big thing. Other retailers will follow suit, and before you know it, bulk rares are selling for $15. The seller who starts the trend quickly moves their stock while the price is high, and eventually people realized they were suckered in and it becomes a game of one fool trying to sell to a greater fool.

In cases like Starcitygames, they raise prices based on legitimate demand; they have dedicated team keeping track of competitor’s prices as well as the demand/sales history in their own store and they make calculated price increases based on that information. Occasionally they will buy out entire market places of a single card so they can relist at a higher price, but this generally only happens with older cards that have proven playability and a high level of collectability (I.E. Chains or Tabernacle). I’m not SCG’s number 1 cheerleader by any means, but I understand that their increase decisions are well-researched and warranted to remain competitive in the marketplace.

I guess my point is that people pay too much attention to MTGstocks and not enough attention to long-term tournament results. If they really want to profit, they won’t buy into the latest tech, rather, they should calculate what decks/strategies are strongest in a format’s metagame, and buy cards based on that. For example, I did this with Death and Taxes when it started to consistently put up Top 8 performances (pre-TNN). Sure I didn’t get my Ports for $5, but I did get them for $30 when it was clear they were a legitimate role player in that deck. People need to carefully observe a format as well as a large number of retailors before making a purchase decision.

Current problem in Magic economy, is people having multiples copies of Legacy staples in multiple languages, in multiple conditions, and yet, being criticizing how expensive Legacy is. Thats hypocrisy. And thats the mayor problem.
Just give yourself a look in the pimp thread.

[apple713]

Current problem in Magic economy, is people having multiples copies of Legacy staples in multiple languages, in multiple conditions, and yet, being criticizing how expensive Legacy is. Thats hypocrisy. And thats the mayor problem.
Just give yourself a look in the pimp thread.

legacy is a format for long time players of magic and/or people with good jobs. It doesn't bother me that segregation exists. I don't really want to play a game with children that are 16 years old...

take GP Paris for example (top 8)

Jean-Mary "Lejay" Accart Age: 31

Stefan Böttcher Age: 24

Loïc Le Briand Age: 29

Jóse Manuel Fernández Castelló Age: 30

Javier Dominguez Age: 26

Philipp Schönegger Age: 20

Maxime Gilles Age: 26

Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa Age: 26

we have 1 outlier @ age 20... What this tells me is that these people have probably been playing for a long time.

[lordofthepit]

legacy is a format for long time players of magic and/or people with good jobs. It doesn't bother me that segregation exists. I don't really want to play a game with children that are 16 years old...

take GP Paris for example (top 8)

Jean-Mary "Lejay" Accart Age: 31

Stefan Böttcher Age: 24

Loïc Le Briand Age: 29

Jóse Manuel Fernández Castelló Age: 30

Javier Dominguez Age: 26

Philipp Schönegger Age: 20

Maxime Gilles Age: 26

Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa Age: 26

we have 1 outlier @ age 20... What this tells me is that these people have probably been playing for a long time.

26 is old now?

[Esper3k]

26 is old now?

FML...

[apple713]

26 is old now?

no but if you'll notice the game is advertised to 13+

[Bed Decks Palyer]

We got a dude in his fifties (some lawyer, btw) visiting our lgs. He plays his (quite abysmal) brews, but then again, he's got fun with them. I think he specializes in non-Eternal, though. Younger players call him Děda Svačinář (literally meaning Grandpa Snackboy), although I guess he never snacked anyone.
Oh, it's a long time jargon (started in Prague, spread all over Bohemia now) dating back to Revised; to "snack out the card" means to get it extremely cheap from a newbie, the usual double Craw Wurm for Taiga muck.

/ot

[Megadeus]

26 isnt old by any means (I'm 21). Just that this shows that you wont have to play against random 14 year old high school kids when playing legacy a lot of the time. And I am perfectly fine with that. I hated going to FNMs and playing vs some high school (or sometimes even younger) kid. Maybe it is simply because as the youngest in my whole family I dont interact with children well, but overall it is a semi annoying experience. I would rather play vs someone that I can have intelligent, or hilarious, conversation with.

As for prices, Wasteland is hilarious. I'm waiting for the non blue duals to go up since USea and Volc are now both at 250 each SCG. Waiting on 100 dollar Scrublands and 70 dollar Plateaus.

[Lemnear]

Autumn Willow? I see about 250 copies on various sites that are priced below 50 cents. Anyone feel like spending 125$ and never getting rid of them?

I have no clue why you think I was talking about Autumn Willow if I clearly said "MCM". Prices of staples also skyrocket there and there are much less copies of staples available than in December. I was recently looking for 1-2 cards and quickly said "fuck that!" after seeing prices/condition

[Kayradis]

#blamejulianforcradlespike

[Phelix]

Does it beat Blame Kibler?

[majikal]

Well gentlemen, it's been a pleasure, but I think I'm out. Volcanic Island and Underground Sea have crept up to $300 on the retail end, Force of Will is ~$100 and creeping upward, and Wasteland is apparently $150 now. Where the blue duals are at in particular was the price point of Moxes when Vintage started to die out. I guess SCG can keep the format artificially alive for a little while longer, but I'm pretty sure there's only a year or two left in the old girl before they take her out and shoot her.

Really, prices across the board are getting out of hand, barring Standard. Maybe that's the goal? Who knows. At any rate, the money's too tempting, and I don't get to play as much as I'd like anyway. I'll probably keep my EDH decks and build a cube or something, but I'm cashing in everything else.