[Deck] Manaless Ichorid

[Thrasher]

Well, it's a negative timewalk which isn't guaranteed to be useful. You'll hardly have 2 turns (at best, they increase if you factor discard) vs combo. Testing never hurts, though.

[p0werslave]

there is something in the boland report that i did not get. when he explains his avatar in the sb ... against a show n tell, "cast a spy; untap; then if he pass..".
i m probably wrong, but when the spy is on the field and all your deck in the graveyard, you can go with the flayer combo in your opponent turn and win instantly, isn't it?

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[shopshopshop]

You can't Dread Return at instant speed.

[Holly]

Unless you're playing the Leyline above !

[Technics]

there is something in the boland report that i did not get. when he explains his avatar in the sb ... against a show n tell, "cast a spy; untap; then if he pass..".
i m probably wrong, but when the spy is on the field and all your deck in the graveyard, you can go with the flayer combo in your opponent turn and win instantly, isn't it?

Inviato dal mio GT-I9300 utilizzando Tapatalk

You put in Spy off Show and tell and he puts in an Emrakul. Then since you have no library, he could just pass, and you die in your draw step. But now you have the avatar left, meaning you can put the spy in off a show and tell, and when it becomes your turn again, you can go off, without losing to having no cards.

[Mr. Froggy]

http://www.starcitygames.com/article...-SCGLA.htmlHis tournament report

His tournament report

I like his fearless approach towards Rip. :)

Quite refreshing. :)

[fooswashere]

I went 4-0 with Manaless Dredge on the Legacy daily on MODO last wednesday.
The list I ran. http://www.mtgo-stats.com/decks/101498
I am still learning how to sideboard so if you think I sideboarded wrong please share.

Round 1 I faced UW Miracles.
Game 1 I stripped his hand of terminus and ran him over with Ichorids and Zombies.
I side in 4x Shoals, side out two fairies, a nether shadow, and a shambling shell.
Game 2 Turn 2 I countered RIP with a Shoal ditching a Narcomoeba and he proceeds to lose.

Round 2 Belcher,
Game 1 I cabal therapy him naming burning wish after I see him play a tinder wall. I cabal therapy again naming the belcher in his hand. He scoops
Sideboard in 4x Leyline of Sanctity sideboard out two fairies, nether shadow and shambling shell. Unsure about this move I don't know how good shoal is against him.
Game 2 He puts me on the play, draws a card, I draw and discard, He proceeds to go off on turn 2.
Game 3 I turn 0 LOS, Draw a card, pass, draw a card, discard, counter his burning wish, and proceed to go off with some good dredging into whirlpool rider and two Narcomoebas with a dread return in the GY.

Round 3 was against Grixis
Game 1 I win, fighting through a DRS (Not very hard to do)
Side in Contagion x4 and side out 2 therapy and 2 fairies
Game 2 He turns one DRS, I discard grave troll with street wraith, ichorid, and contagion in hand, Turn 2 he thoughsiezes me, I contagion his DRS in response pitching ichorid and he tries to exile GGT, I cycle street wraith and the game goes easy from there.

Round 4 against miracles
Game 1 fight through a Thopter foundry and Sword of the Meek. I get a pretty good dredge that gets me all the guys I could ask for. He counters the first dread return but can't counter the second.
Game 2 he casts RIP on turn 2 I fow pitching probe, he casts fow pitching counter balance in respond, onto game 3
Game 3 I counter RIP and cabal therpy him after he casts stoneforge mystic without fetching anything. I name batterskull and what do you know its sitting pretty in his hand. I proceed to kill him with a dread return on flayer and then GGT.

Final notes
The FOW and shoals were crucial against anything trying to jam RIP and combo decks. A lot of decks will just keep bad hands as long as it has a RIP or cage in it. Counter that first one and it is smooth sailing from there. I am still working on the sideboard. I would rather have mindbreak traps over Leyline of Sanctity for the storm match ups so I will try that out next. I ran the fairies MD because I know a lot of people play Lands and reanimator on MODO.

I really love the deck. Playing on MODO makes the triggers a lot easier to remember and to get in the right order. I am just starting to get into legacy on MODO so i wanted a deck that was cheaper but has staples for other decks hence why I run the FOWs. If you guys are interested I will post the next time I am playing and I can stream on twitch.tv

[Thrasher]

Congrats!
On the sideboarding:
I'd have kept shambling shell and Nether Shadow vs miracle. It's gonna be a slow and grindy matchup most of the times, so even a dredge 3 is fine. Nether is just more bodies to recover from Terminus. Also, i never side out Cabal Therapy.

[Michael Keller]

Never remove a dredger when moving to your sideboard. It's imperative - especially in this archetype - to always keep your percentages at a higher level of opening with a dredger, as you cannot afford to mulligan.

It's a rather subjective ideology (sideboarding, that is), and I get that each person has their own way of doing things. But this is something you should be aware of when playing this deck.

[Tlbwars]

Hi guys, after reading both Hollywood's and Michael Boland report about their Manaless Dredge deck, i'm confused ... which one have the best version of the deck ? I played '' Normal Lion's eyes Dredge'' for the past 2 years.. so I'm wondering which version to play now... Thx :)

Balustrade Spy Dredge VS Fow Dredge ? :)

**Michael Boland's report: http://www.starcitygames.com/article...-At-SCGLA.html

**Hollywood's report: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...064#post795064

[Mr. Froggy]

I guess it depends on play style? I haven't switched to FoW Manaless yet because I haven't felt like I need to.

Obviously it works though, given the added protection FoW offers.

[gato con botas]

@Mr. Froggy
I change to the blue buffet with fow, disrupting and mindbreak and the truth that me goes much better two weekends ago I had tilt and not between in in the top for 3 tenths of 121 persons

[Thrasher]

Without fow you let your opponent decide the outcome of the game. If he/she finds rip/cage in g2/3 there's nothing you can do. If you feel lucky you can go without force, otherwise play it. Relying on luck doesn't seem a competitive way of thinking, to me, but it's up to you.

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[Mr. Froggy]

Without fow you let your opponent decide the outcome of the game. If he/she finds rip/cage in g2/3 there's nothing you can do. If you feel lucky you can go without force, otherwise play it. Relying on luck doesn't seem a competitive way of thinking, to me, but it's up to you.

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I run Claim SB because those have been working for me.

[Michael Keller]

Without fow you let your opponent decide the outcome of the game. If he/she finds rip/cage in g2/3 there's nothing you can do. If you feel lucky you can go without force, otherwise play it. Relying on luck doesn't seem a competitive way of thinking, to me, but it's up to you.

Inviato dal mio GT-I8190 utilizzando Tapatalk

This is a good summation of Manaless Dredge in general in today's general metagame.

[Final Fortune]

I think Fearless is fine as long as you have a read on the meta game, because even with Force of Will and Disrupting Shoal I wouldn't be eager to play Manaless Dredge in a field of Rest in Peace. Fearless really comes down to whether or not you think Tarmogoyfs are going to pull ahead of True Name Nemesis as players aim Golgari Charm and Pithing Needle at True Name Nemesis and Stoneforge Mystic and Rest in Peace at Tarmogoyf, Deathrite Shaman and Tombstalker, and either fortunately or unfortunately I don't think either aggro-control strategy has a clear advantage over the other right now.

What I'm hoping for is that UWx will become UWBg with Deathrite Shaman so Rest in Peace will become a 2x instead of a 3x in SBs because of the nonbo with Deathrite Shaman.

[dte]

@ fooswashere

I agree that you should not remove cabal therapy vs grixis. You could remove at least one Nether Shadow and one Whirlpool Rider instead.
However siding out 1-2 S. Shell is perfectly fine for me in the non DRS MUs. The probability of having only SS as a dredger in your original 7 when having between 15 and 13 dredgers is only 88 - 84 =4%. And starting with only SS in your hand is not really different from mull6 into Dr6 or 5 (and probability to have at least one of these 8 dredgers in a 6-cards hand is 60%).
So you really lose something in less than 2% of the cases by removing 2 SShell against non DRS MU (neglecting shadow/ichorid food here).

As I disagree on this point with more experimentated dredgers, I'm probably wrong. But I would like to have their opinions on this subject (the siding out of SShell n°2-3 in non-DRS MU).

Otherwise, why are you not playing the 4th FoW (MD or SB)? Budget reasons or smthing I do not understand?

[Thrasher]

I often side out a single Shambling shell vs ant,tes and reanimator. A dredge 3 in the opening wouldn't be enough to win in such bad matchups. I keep 2 in, though, they're useful as ichorid food, and 12 dredgers isn't enough to chain dredgers without fizzling. Even fizzling for a turn would be really bad in those matchups.

[davelin]

This is a good summation of Manaless Dredge in general in today's general metagame.

Seems like the main FoW-targets reside in SBs (Cage and RiP), would putting FoW/Disrupting Shoal in the 'board and bringing in Contagions maindeck for Thalia and Stoneforge a consideration?

[Michael Keller]

Seems like the main FoW-targets reside in SBs (Cage and RiP), would putting FoW/Disrupting Shoal in the 'board and bringing in Contagions maindeck for Thalia and Stoneforge a consideration?

How do you plan on casting Contagion against Thalia?