[Deck] Death and Taxes

[Barook]

Anyone clued in to why he's running the full set of Spirit of the Labyrinth? I feel like I'd want the last SFMs over a couple of them, at least. Would it be mainly to punish U even further? Stop cantrips digging into land?

@ Duck - I feel like I'd cut down a few of the non-waste non-plains lands; I'd start with removing the Flagstones and Canopy. In fact, I believe I'm going to try it myself soon...

EDIT - Realized that cutting down on SFM is probably due to the anti-synergy with Arbiter. Still, I think I'm going to start testing with 3.

The creator is planning to replace one GQ for another white source. 14 isn't still ideal, though.

SotL is the blue meta in general, in particular it's there for Miracles and Elves. Personally, I'm not a fan of it, either.

[Barbed Blightning]

I actually am fascinated by the list; I think it is, at the very least, a killer next-level design. It looks very well thought out, and given the rampant existence of blue (especially Miracles) I think the SotL package was a smart move--though I remain unimpressed by the card in my build

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[MrShine]

I actually am fascinated by the list; I think it is, at the very least, a killer next-level design. It looks very well thought out, and given the rampant existence of blue (especially Miracles) I think the SotL package was a smart move--though I remain unimpressed by the card in my build

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I know someone who played the Arbiter build for a long time and he always had a lot of success with it.

This is pretty much the only time that I've seen a list where I think the SotL makes sense, although I still think I want a certain number of Mother of Runes in the main; it's just such a pain for the tempo decks, and it seems weird not having any CMC1 for Vial curves.

[The Duck!!]

Anyone clued in to why he's running the full set of Spirit of the Labyrinth? I feel like I'd want the last SFMs over a couple of them, at least. Would it be mainly to punish U even further? Stop cantrips digging into land?

@ Duck - I feel like I'd cut down a few of the non-waste non-plains lands; I'd start with removing the Flagstones and Canopy. In fact, I believe I'm going to try it myself soon...

EDIT - Realized that cutting down on SFM is probably due to the anti-synergy with Arbiter. Also noticed the other 2 in the SB. Lots going on here!

Think I'd rather remove 3 plains instead of canopy and flagstones.


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[Barbed Blightning]

I know someone who played the Arbiter build for a long time and he always had a lot of success with it.

This is pretty much the only time that I've seen a list where I think the SotL makes sense, although I still think I want a certain number of Mother of Runes in the main; it's just such a pain for the tempo decks, and it seems weird not having any CMC1 for Vial curves.

Fry? Yeah, he also runs crusaders as well; rare are his posts on this forum, however.

It's an odd list, but with streamlining, I think it has great potential

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[MrShine]

2x D&T in the top 16 of SCG Cinci! One of them even took 1st ;)

[GoblinZ]

A question: do you side wit-leaf liege in against Deathblade？what do you usually side out in this mu？Thx.

[Barbed Blightning]

A question: do you side wit-leaf liege in against Deathblade？what do you usually side out in this mu？Thx.

It's always tough, because the deck has many permutations (of course, playing 4 colors does that). If I see a Lilly game one, then yes; otherwise, I treat it like any other Blade deck--O rings, disenchant/manriki, pithing needle

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[GoblinZ]

It's always tough, because the deck has many permutations (of course, playing 4 colors does that). If I see a Lilly game one, then yes; otherwise, I treat it like any other Blade deck--O rings, disenchant/manriki, pithing needle

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Yeah, they always have about 2 Lilly in the main and 2 zealous persecution from sideboard. I think I should side in liege, but I fear that I may overboard here and I am not sure what to take out（I always take out flickerwisp first and don‘t know what to take out then）. So mabye I should side in liege only against Jund or Bug variants?

[Barbed Blightning]

Yeah, they always have about 2 Lilly in the main and 2 zealous persecution from sideboard. I think I should side in liege, but I fear that I may overboard here and I am not sure what to take out（I always take out flickerwisp first and don‘t know what to take out then）. So mabye I should side in liege only against Jund or Bug variants?

Yeah, I'd start by cutting Moms and maybe StP; you want a density of disruptive threats. I'd only add liege after my needles, disenchant and rings came in. Cataclysm is also good vs them

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[Arsenal]

I wouldn't cut Moms against Blade decks. That is how we win/break even in ground battles while blanking all of their spot removal.

[Barbed Blightning]

I wouldn't cut Moms against Blade decks. That is how we win/break even in ground battles while blanking all of their spot removal.

All.... 4 of them?

maybe it's a bit next level, but blade typically brings in more wipes, against which mom is utter shit. I'd sooner swap mom for Pithing Needle, Cataclysm and an O ring.

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[GoblinZ]

I feel cataclysm may not be that good against deathblade sometimes, for example when they already have a progenifish on board or you have thalia on board. So I assume mabye it is safer to side cataclysm in only against tribal or pure control like miracle, maybe I am just wrong on this...

[Arsenal]

The primary purpose of Mom in the Blade matchup is to break stalled boardstates and the secondary purpose is to blank their removal. Sure, they run 4 StP (and sometimes 1 Vindicate), but also run 2-3 Snaps, so Mom is always going to be live. I definitely don't board in Cataclysm against Blade as it's only good when your board is already winning.

[Barbed Blightning]

The primary purpose of Mom in the Blade matchup is to break stalled boardstates and the secondary purpose is to blank their removal. Sure, they run 4 StP (and sometimes 1 Vindicate), but also run 2-3 Snaps, so Mom is always going to be live. I definitely don't board in Cataclysm against Blade as it's only good when your board is already winning.

Or when the board is stalled, or when you need to slay their Jace/Lilly. Aside from TNN+Jitte, I think casting Cataclysm usually ends up with them suffering--especially when you have a vial.

The problem with Mom is that by herself she's bad; when she's paired with a creature she's quite awesome. But against decks with wipes and lillies she is a terrible top deck vs an empty board.

However, what would you cut for the Deathblade matchup?



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[Arsenal]

Or when the board is stalled, or when you need to slay their Jace/Lilly.

Is this referring to why Mom should stay in postboard or are you referring to the use of Cataclysm? Because Cataclysm doesn't help you when a board is stalled nor does it force them to sacrifice Lili/Jace, so I'm assuming you're expounding as to why Mom is an allstar in fair matchups.

Aside from TNN+Jitte, I think casting Cataclysm usually ends up with them suffering--especially when you have a vial.

Maybe. I mean, if they're left with a blue dual, a DRS, and some cards in hand, that seems okay-ish to build your board from. And yes, if we have a land, dude, Vial after a Cataclsym, that's awesome, but that also implies we had an advantageous board position pre-Cataclsym.

The problem with Mom is that by herself she's bad; when she's paired with a creature she's quite awesome. But against decks with wipes and lillies she is a terrible top deck vs an empty board.

I agree, she's a semi-bad topdeck and requires other creatures in order to shine. But the same can be said of Aether Vial and you certainly don't cut those.

[MrShine]

Oracle text on Cataclysm: "Each player chooses from the permanents he or she controls an artifact, a creature, an enchantment, and a land, then sacrifices the rest."

So Planeswalkers are indeed sacrificed. Eat that, Jace!

On the topic of what to remove vs Deathblade... this one is really hard to say. I have the most success in the match disrupting their manabase, but obviously we're not going to cut any of those guys.

Frequently I'll just trim whatever seems sub-optimal; maybe 1 Mom, 1 Revoker, 1 Wisp (I run 4 atm) as they're bringing in ZP. Its hard to say as each of our cards has its niche role in the MU and you can't really say one is going to be that much better than the others as it depends what exactly they draw. SFM / Jace styled draws from them will be crippled by Revoker, but they could easily get the STP / Snap / TNN plan online as well which is where we want Mom. So basically I'm just trimming for bullet answers and hoping to draw the right answers to their specific opener after prioritizing LD.

I like having extra removal post board for the MU and will usually bring in Celestial Flare. Cataclysm seems alright but it doesn't answer TNN so I prefer to go with Flare / Disenchant / Needle here. I also like PTE in the board so would consider bringing that in too if I saw Confidants (probably before the Needle).

On another note, when are we siding out Batterskull? I'm usually going for Jitte first in most matches, but I definitely want it against Miracles and SnT (better clock than Jitte with a SFM draw)... Do we need it vs Deathblade & Esperblade? I feel like cutting 1 SFM 1 Batterskull is a nice way to open up some room post side, just need to figure out what MUs it's best for.

[Arsenal]

Lol, brain fart. Yeah, Jace/Lili bites the dust. Hmm..., definitely a worthy inclusion then.

[mrjumbo03]

Split the finals of a 42-man tourney over here. Deck is stock again, except for 3 Serra Avenger, 3 Flickerwisps, 2 Brimaz, and 2 Mangara. Oh and I had 4 Karakas and no caverns.

R1 Esperblade 2-0 (1-0) Raced a True Name with my SoFI-equipped Avenger. G2 Mangara-locked him after he fired 3 brainstorms without drawing a fetch to shuffle away chaff.
R2 Sneakshow 2-0 (2-0) G1 I had no idea what my opponent was on but I kept a double Karakas hand with Mom, Thalia and Revoker. Luckily it was SneakShow. G2 he manages to land a blood moon against my Karakas, Canopy and Port, but he has no answer to my resolved Ensnaring Bridge.
R3 BUG Delver 1-1 (2-0-1) G1 won a long game when I managed to set up Mangara lock and stabilized against his 3 Goyfs at a low life. G2 he lands a turn 2 Sylvan which is bad news. Flooded this game - drew 8 lands. G3 I was lucky because his 2 Delvers didn't flip for 3 turns, leaving him one turn short of killing me.
R4 SneakShow 2-0 (3-0-1) G1 Mull to 6 to a double Vial, Karakas Revoker hand. G2 Mull to 6 again for hate and won a much longer game behind Ensnaring Bridge, Revoker, Thalia and Karakas.
R5 BUG Delver 2-1 (4-0-1) G1 I drew more relevant threats, ended pretty fast. G2 Mulled to 5, and lost after not drawing a 2nd land. G3 Mulled to 6, it was a long game but managed to win behind SoFI equipped Brimaz with a little help from Karakas and Spellskite for double protection.
R6 Esperblade (4-0-2) Drew into top 8.

T8 R4SneakShow opponent 2-1 G1 mulled to 5 for the perfect Vial Karakas Revoker hand. G2 mulled to 5 and lost even behind double revoker and thalia which he managed to answer. G3 mulled to 6, won without Karakas but had Pithing (countered) and 2 Revokers, my hand would've been cold to an Emrakul because he also had a Blood Moon.
T4 R6Esperblade opponent 2-0 G1 he was short on mana after I wasted him, and he got stuck on 2 lands - managed to Mangara lock him as well. G2 was an extremely long game where he stabilized when he was at 2 life. Final plays of the long match was when he had a Vendilion in play, and a Snap equipped with Jitte and Manriki against my board of lots of land (Karakas among them), my 1 Cat token from Brimaz and a Celestial Flare in my hand which he knows of because of the Clique. He swung with his Clique, but I respond with porting one of his 3 lands during his combat step forcing him to tap out and drop a 2nd Clique to get rid of my Flare, drew a Mangara with an active vial on 3, dropped it onto play. Drew a Flickerwisp for my turn so I flickered his Snap, Karakas'd his Clique and swung for lethal with Mangara and Cat token.
Split the finals against R3 opponent because it was almost 11pm already. R3, R4(also my T8 opponent), R5 and T4 opponents are all extremely good players who have multiple top8's in our legacy community.

Brimaz and Mangara did a lot of work for me in the tourney. Keep on taxing!

[Technicolor Mage]

Is it possible for someone to post "current"

Aggro build
Control build


I am really interested in seeing the differences (laid out again maybe) I went searching, but I don't see much difference in them.


I don't want to see the new build, although that may or may not be what the builds in the future morph into

Thanks in advance

Nice to see Death and Taxes take the last Open!