[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[Bryant Cook]

I'm not sure if this question is asked in regards to the specific recent changes, as the current iteration has cut the Silences and the Cities of Brass for more Fetches and Discard which saw a lot of discussion in this thread lately, or if you had something else in mind. There are several directions in discussion atm

A reminder: Bryant has overhauled the OP

Woah, hold up! Spoilers. I have not!

I'm in the process of a complete overhaul on the opening post. Meaning rewriting the entire thing, when it's done I'll let everyone know. I'm juggling a few things at the moment, but expect it in the next few weeks.

My current deck list is in the opening post though!

[Lemnear]

M'kay. Just noticed an edit today

[wonderPreaux]

Hi guys, I just had an idea that I wanted to ask about. I mentioned before being a bit worried over other fast combo decks, and theres a spot for EtW coming out of the main that tends to get filled by Pyroblast or Tropical Island. So, the idea I had: what if we had a 2nd Ad Nauseam in the side to bring in to help race other combo decks. The average CMC of the deck doesn't go up much, since you swap EtW for AdN, being able to combo faster is way better than something conditional like Pyroblast since being faster helps in all combo matchups. Historically the deck did run AdN in duplicate before, so its not unheard of necessarily. 2nd Ad Nauseam might have applications in other matchups too, but it just kinda woke up today with this idea wanted to see if anyone else had thought about it.

[bryanzoll]

Woah, hold up! Spoilers. I have not!

I'm in the process of a complete overhaul on the opening post. Meaning rewriting the entire thing, when it's done I'll let everyone know. I'm juggling a few things at the moment, but expect it in the next few weeks.

My current deck list is in the opening post though!

Bryant,

Do you find having Cabal Rituals / Duress in over silence optimal? And how often are you siding out the Cabal Rits?

[sawatarix]

I play 2 Ad Nauseam in my Ant deck and i would also run 2 in tes instead of empty maybe.
(Currently Empty the Warrens isn't that good in general because of all the cheap answers to goblins in each decks sideboard)

Royce and Bryant: During your path to victory last week,how many rounds have you won with goblins?
How many ad nauseam into grapeshot did you cast?


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

[Pelikanudo]

@Lemnear, Final Fortune and to whom may interest mainly:

I finally played that tournament, it was around 300 people, it was time ago and I was testing a litle with a TES list

I played the folllowing list:
// Lands
4 [WL] Gemstone Mine
2 [U] Underground Sea
2 [B] Volcanic Island
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
4 [M10] Ponder
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [V09] Lotus Petal
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [5E] Dark Ritual
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [NPH] Gitaxian Probe
1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
1 [THS] Thoughtseize
2 [M14] Duress

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 [THS] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [AL] Diminishing Returns
SB: 1 [TSP] Grapeshot
SB: 1 [ISD] Past in Flames
SB: 2 [SC] Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 [RS] Tropical Island
SB: 2 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 2 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 [MM] Bribery
SB: 1 [NE] Massacre


The idea mainly HowToSide was:

• vs Sneak:
  -1EtW, -4C.Therapy,+1Ponder = +1Tropical I., +1 T.Seize, +2Xantid, +2Pyro
  
• vs Miracles
  -1 C.Mox,-2 Ponder,-1EtW, -2C.Therapy = +2Pyro, +2A.Decay, +1Tropical I., +1 T.Seize
  
• vs T.A
  -1Ponder+1T.Seize

I went with a friend playing also Storm but a different archetypes.
We both reached the 4-0 and 4-1 respectively, beating merfolk with Chalice (in here discard was key), slivers, sneak, BUG, etc, all suff with FoW,
We reached both the same D&T player wich crushed us, and last round we faced each other me and my friend - we pacted so we needed to win next 2 rounds, my next 2 rounds were vs miracles - happy - which I'll briefly resume - they were both a feature match ups but still waiting to watch them...

vs D&T
it was really a bad luck, on first game I have discard and a 3rd turn win, but the lonely Spirit of the Labyrinth ruined my plan of diminishing as last chance... and either didnt draw other wincon.
The second game he sided 2 E.Tutor plus ratched bomb ,and even I discarded 1 Elightned T. from hand and put 12 gobs on 1st turn he is able to draw the E.Tutor on the f*** next turn.

vs the decks I want to talk now about is miracles:

vs Miracles:
the first and 2nd games were totallly bad plays from opponent part... people still don't know how to play vs TES... and I think will never learn... but I don't want to win games vs them because of this cause.
- the first game we reached a point in which he had Jace, with senseis activates ability and Opponent Does not leave FoW on top. Yeah.
I cast Therapy, chain of spells win.

- the second game and starting him I think I just sided as exposed before , but didnt win.

- the third game was strange as I just felt that full discard instead of A.Decay was going to be better so I sided just +1 EtW, +1 T.Seize from List
I think I discarded FoW and Sensei leaving c.b. and Verdict and put 12 gobs on 2nd turn, he had also blue lands only. I think. won.

I need to elaborate a strong strategy vs miracles, do not mind want to change in side, because this is what I felt on 2nd match up vs miracles...

I'm not sure about the good or bad decisión, but I remember he started and I had a ponder, fetch, duress, D.R. gemstone, B.W., B.S. or like and I opted to play Fetch volcanic to pretend to be RUG - I remembered you in here Lem! he fetched, played island -> c.b., obviously I didnt know he played c.b. maybe if I play duress he just brainstorm, but who knows. I blame myself for not playing duress - but he didn't look a Miracles Player Face.

second I oppted to side in as exposed before - original strategy, but it was simple c.b. landed before comboing and A.D. didn't appear.

I just want to say that the list is damned strong, as it's never been before IMHO - 3 discard and among them 4 therapys is perfect - Go Tri forcé!. just 2 or 1 T.Seize, I opted to play 1 Main and really didn't go bad. but as you all boys say, as quick is what mainly defines the match up vs D&T, my plan was -2 Duress +1T.Seize+1grapeshot. in one game just was bad luck , the other maybe mulligan anyways the problema in one match up was the need of the second threat apart to B.W.-> Massacre which provoked me a secure feeling on each match up. massacre will stay in. so quick was the way and in other Match ups it's the same as duress...,


vs Sneak:
the firt game discard was key to reach agood point in the game and win
the second game Xantid was key.

I didn't use Bribery at all. I think not having CoV opens you to looses maybe vs Leyline bu having also B.W. -> Bribery is also another path to the victory as a card vs Reanimate, S&T, OmniShow, MUD, so I' not sure if to take it out.

So conclusions:

talking with my friend, he played 3 A.Decay finally, he said they're clunky - he played also vs some variety of c.b. but it seems the unique and best post c.b. answer, in testing and in the games, we sometimes drew the pyro after c.b. OR it is seen in resp to a b.s. OR it is the card seen with the ponder starting your opponent beore a c.b. lands... etc. so it seems a neccessary evil you you want to beat consistently Miracles.
I really don't think that 2-2 split vs miracles is a good thing, that was the feeling about full discard and maybe 1 pyro - opinión I somehow agree with F.Fortune.
I think that I will prefer to play 3A.Decay for next time - I think it is usefull when there is also a Senseis landed as you can avoid that scenario. but I'm frightned about how dead is vs counters...
my friend will opt to play 3 pyro.

I would ike to increment +1 to Xantid, maybe -2pyro +1Xantid+1A.Decay, or maybe leaving 1 pyro and take out the bribery...

@Lem, F.Fortune, Royce, Bryant:
Please let me know your opinión about a Strong or the Strongest Side Strategy vs Miracles.


Other things:
I just totally disagree on the opening post list, even the TNT list which is damned strong prefers to play 3b.w. instead of 3I.T. and even if using PiF, then you need I.T. in g.y. or hand unless there is a Like Mystical Tutor Card I will still play 8 Threats as mínimum., which is the purpose of this change, maybe I miss something? do you really think C.Ritual will make TES faster instead of I.T.?, Why not taking out B.W instead? it does seem nonsense to play 3 C.Mox to get full advantage of A.N. and 3 I.T.!!! Also Why not Diminishing Returns???

@Sawatriz, I think you suggested mein the BURG thread, let me give you a suggestion for free: DO NOT play 2nd A.N instead of the Lonely EtW. Now the TriForce is a sacred cow.

[KaiSchafroth]

Bryant,

Do you find having Cabal Rituals / Duress in over silence optimal? And how often are you siding out the Cabal Rits?

Not to speak for others but a number of pages back was when most of the discussion around Discard vs. Silence took place; you likely missed it. Truncating the full text slightly (removing deck lists and some of the text) but you can click the 'go to post' link to read the full posts.

I will add from my own experiences as of late that I am happy with the removal of Silence change for a number of the reasons that were outlined in some of the linked posts below. Setting up for the combo turn, protection against discard, using it more easily intra-combo, land availability and even something as simple as being able to imprint onto a Mox for B have all been bonuses.

I didn't notice the lack of disruption, but I did notice more mana made plowing through soft counters MUCH easier. Sideboarding was a little awkward, mostly because I wasn't sure on what to do yet. I believe that in fast match-ups where we need protection we should be siding out Cabal Rituals, but in fast match-ups where we don't need it (Such as Elves/D&T) we board in the land and tutor instead. I'm still in the process of figuring it all out.

I'll let Bryant post his own list, but I'll post my list and discuss the differences and the reasons.

Silence isn't a bad card, but Silence is a weaker card now that RUG is a dead deck and people are beginning to accept that fact. I said it when True Name Nemesis was spoiled and started playing UBWg and UGW True Name Nemesis decks, and I adjusted my disruption package earlier than any one else did because I was being attacked from multiple angles like; Counters, Discard, Hate Bears and Wasteland instead of from a single angle like Counters and Wasteland or Discard and Wasteland or Hatebears and Wasteland.

I'm not saying Thoughtseize turns Miracles and UBWg into winning match ups, but it improves your win% because you're not blind to any angle of attack like you are with Silence.

I've made a lot of posts regarding the technical benefits of using discard instead of Silence in the past, being able to cast it before the combo turn, being able to cast it off of more lands, being able to cast it off of Dark Ritual, being able to better sequence your lands for cantrips, playing with perfect information, imprinting for black etc. so you can review those posts. Likewise I've made a lot of posts regarding the necessity of Bribery/Telemin's Performance for Griselbrand.dec and it's true now more than ever after you no longer get to face roll Show&Tell with a resolved Silence and Diminishing Returns.

Discard rewards a higher skill cap with TES, but in today's meta game it's worth it.

The switch between Silence to discard was tough for me, I honestly thought Silence was better. I was on a tear with the back to back Caffrey events in PA (Almost 200 players at each) and then played in a 40 man where I went 0-3. Losing because Silence wasn't proactive enough versus bears and discard, I needed to adapt. Final Fortune was right to a certain extent, if the metagame shifts back to the way it was I'll likely sleeve up Silences again. But that time isn't right now. With the lack of Silence, City of Brass isn't needed and the extra fetch and dual were added. Royce & I both agreed that the additional fetchland was immediately noticed, the dual was nice too for pretending to be Sneak & Show. I opted for 2 Seize/1 Duress, Royce played 2 Duress/1 Preordain (Which I hate - but he did better than me this weekend. The fuck do I know, right?). Royce says the lifeloss lost him a game, I think it's negated since we no longer have the lifeloss from City of Brass. Either way, I never noticed the life at all.

[Lemnear]

@Lemnear, Final Fortune and to whom may interest mainly:

I finally played that tournament, it was around 300 people, it was time ago and I was testing a litle with a TES list

I played the folllowing list:
// Lands
4 [WL] Gemstone Mine
2 [U] Underground Sea
2 [B] Volcanic Island
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
4 [M10] Ponder
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [V09] Lotus Petal
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [5E] Dark Ritual
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [NPH] Gitaxian Probe
1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
1 [THS] Thoughtseize
2 [M14] Duress

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 [THS] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [AL] Diminishing Returns
SB: 1 [TSP] Grapeshot
SB: 1 [ISD] Past in Flames
SB: 2 [SC] Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 [RS] Tropical Island
SB: 2 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 2 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 [MM] Bribery
SB: 1 [NE] Massacre


The idea mainly HowToSide was:

• vs Sneak:
  -1EtW, -4C.Therapy,+1Ponder = +1Tropical I., +1 T.Seize, +2Xantid, +2Pyro
  
• vs Miracles
  -1 C.Mox,-2 Ponder,-1EtW, -2C.Therapy = +2Pyro, +2A.Decay, +1Tropical I., +1 T.Seize
  
• vs T.A
  -1Ponder+1T.Seize

Don't like the miracle boarding. An infernal should leave without a doubt as Ponders will help you to find pyroblasts and Decays. TA plans are ok even if I prefer having the Tropical over another discard-spell

I went with a friend playing also Storm but a different archetypes.
We both reached the 4-0 and 4-1 respectively, beating merfolk with Chalice (in here discard was key), slivers, sneak, BUG, etc, all suff with FoW,
We reached both the same D&T player wich crushed us, and last round we faced each other me and my friend - we pacted so we needed to win next 2 rounds, my next 2 rounds were vs miracles - happy - which I'll briefly resume - they were both a feature match ups but still waiting to watch them...

vs D&T
it was really a bad luck, on first game I have discard and a 3rd turn win, but the lonely Spirit of the Labyrinth ruined my plan of diminishing as last chance... and either didnt draw other wincon.
The second game he sided 2 E.Tutor plus ratched bomb ,and even I discarded 1 Elightned T. from hand and put 12 gobs on 1st turn he is able to draw the E.Tutor on the f*** next turn.

turn 3 does not cut it in general as they can just topdeck a hatebear after your discard and leave you dead in the water. Why was Dim.Ret your last chance? Was clearing the board with massacre not an option?

vs the decks I want to talk now about is miracles:

vs Miracles:
the first and 2nd games were totallly bad plays from opponent part... people still don't know how to play vs TES... and I think will never learn... but I don't want to win games vs them because of this cause.
- the first game we reached a point in which he had Jace, with senseis activates ability and Opponent Does not leave FoW on top. Yeah.
I cast Therapy, chain of spells win.

Miracles is a deck of strategic planning. Takes time to learn. Beginner's mistake

- the second game and starting him I think I just sided as exposed before , but didnt win.

- the third game was strange as I just felt that full discard instead of A.Decay was going to be better so I sided just +1 EtW, +1 T.Seize from List
I think I discarded FoW and Sensei leaving c.b. and Verdict and put 12 gobs on 2nd turn, he had also blue lands only. I think. won.

I shuddered. You accept being dead if your opponent draws into a Counterbalance, if your hand isn't that good to go off in the first 2 turns through a FoW? I cannot recommend that as a strategy.

I need to elaborate a strong strategy vs miracles, do not mind want to change in side, because this is what I felt on 2nd match up vs miracles...

I'm not sure about the good or bad decisión, but I remember he started and I had a ponder, fetch, duress, D.R. gemstone, B.W., B.S. or like and I opted to play Fetch volcanic to pretend to be RUG - I remembered you in here Lem! he fetched, played island -> c.b., obviously I didnt know he played c.b. maybe if I play duress he just brainstorm, but who knows. I blame myself for not playing duress - but he didn't look a Miracles Player Face.

The flaw in the plan is that Counterbalance is a top-priority-play for miracles against storm AND Delver Tempo (RUG) so there is no point in doing that here unlike against other decks which might want to push their position on the battlefield with Goyf or SFM if they think a RUG player has a slow start with Volcanic into Ponder. I seriously hope you at least pondered after fetching while holding even 2 cantrips.

I don't think it was a general mistake to not play Duress here, depending on his exact start (Flooded strand into Tundra/Island would get me thinking), but the fact that you devalue both your cantrips by blowing your fetch first instead of using the gemstone is more of an issue for me and I doubt the advantage of faking RUG can ever make up for that one. The danger of him just responding to your Duress with a Brainstorm, FoW or Spell Pierce is given, therefore casting the Duress here would not have necessarily saved you (him having topdecked the Counterbalance aside)

second I oppted to side in as exposed before - original strategy, but it was simple c.b. landed before comboing and A.D. didn't appear.

that's why you want to keep your cantrips in here: finding pyroblasts/Decay to battle CB and clique

I just want to say that the list is damned strong, as it's never been before IMHO - 3 discard and among them 4 therapys is perfect - Go Tri forcé!. just 2 or 1 T.Seize, I opted to play 1 Main and really didn't go bad. but as you all boys say, as quick is what mainly defines the match up vs D&T, my plan was -2 Duress +1T.Seize+1grapeshot. in one game just was bad luck , the other maybe mulligan anyways the problema in one match up was the need of the second threat apart to B.W.-> Massacre which provoked me a secure feeling on each match up. massacre will stay in. so quick was the way and in other Match ups it's the same as duress...,

again: in matchups that chocke on your mana you want to bring in the Tropical and remove slow setup-cards like ponder for that

vs Sneak:
the firt game discard was key to reach agood point in the game and win
the second game Xantid was key.

I didn't use Bribery at all. I think not having CoV opens you to looses maybe vs Leyline bu having also B.W. -> Bribery is also another path to the victory as a card vs Reanimate, S&T, OmniShow, MUD, so I' not sure if to take it out.

The SB big blue spells like Telemin or Bribery are speed options like the second Ad Nauseam in the 75. Will talk about that one below

So conclusions:

talking with my friend, he played 3 A.Decay finally, he said they're clunky - he played also vs some variety of c.b. but it seems the unique and best post c.b. answer, in testing and in the games, we sometimes drew the pyro after c.b. OR it is seen in resp to a b.s. OR it is the card seen with the ponder starting your opponent beore a c.b. lands... etc. so it seems a neccessary evil you you want to beat consistently Miracles.
I really don't think that 2-2 split vs miracles is a good thing, that was the feeling about full discard and maybe 1 pyro - opinión I somehow agree with F.Fortune.
I think that I will prefer to play 3A.Decay for next time - I think it is usefull when there is also a Senseis landed as you can avoid that scenario. but I'm frightned about how dead is vs counters...
my friend will opt to play 3 pyro.

I only board Decay for miracles and Chalice.dec. I dislike Decay from the bottom of my heart, but running Pyroblast only bears too much risk for me. Maybe at some point I want to become that greedy ;)

I would ike to increment +1 to Xantid, maybe -2pyro +1Xantid+1A.Decay, or maybe leaving 1 pyro and take out the bribery...

BOM 9 had ~9% Miracles and is a hard matchup. Removing cards which can battle S&T AND Miracles for more specific hate for each matchup doesn't make much sense for me. This way you just loose the quantity of cards to board

@Lem, F.Fortune, Royce, Bryant:
Please let me know your opinión about a Strong or the Strongest Side Strategy vs Miracles.

I guess most was said here and covered in the OP. Maybe more is coming with the OP update

Other things:
I just totally disagree on the opening post list, even the TNT list which is damned strong prefers to play 3b.w. instead of 3I.T. and even if using PiF, then you need I.T. in g.y. or hand unless there is a Like Mystical Tutor Card I will still play 8 Threats as mínimum., which is the purpose of this change, maybe I miss something? do you really think C.Ritual will make TES faster instead of I.T.?, Why not taking out B.W instead? it does seem nonsense to play 3 C.Mox to get full advantage of A.N. and 3 I.T.!!! Also Why not Diminishing Returns???

Dim.Ret. got even worse without Silence but is unique for T1/2 plays. You can however live without that one if the only non-blue matchups you face during a day is a sole round against a Jund/D&T player. The reason for siding the Infernal is that you can Wish for it and run virtual 7 infernals for Ad Nauseam while the increased cost is potentially buffered by the Cabal Rituals.

I personally have a strategic Problem of running Chrome Moxen alongside with Cabal Rituals as those don't work well together. I know Bryant strongly disagrees, but for me it's either Mox OR Cabal Ritual; maybe it's just my impression. Neither can I see the need to boost the mana and life-independant trait of PIF AFTER pure tempo decks left the format.

@Sawatriz, I think you suggested mein the BURG thread, let me give you a suggestion for free: DO NOT play 2nd A.N instead of the Lonely EtW. Now the TriForce is a sacred cow.

I don't like sacred cows. The last time we slaughtered one in form of Silence, the deck made a leap in performance against the metagame. As mentioned before in my response here, the second AN in the 75 is a speed-option, but we talk about about 6 vs. 5 Options for AN here and I doubt that increase is worth a slot. Satawarix (;D) comes from the direction of ANT which has more and better mana and wanted to adress heavy discard decks like TA or Shardless as ANT can easily burst an AN with more lands and Cabal Ritual in the deck even if his hand was shredded before. TES does not have that foundation and so I don't see ths SB AN or replacing the MB EtW with a second AN as an improvement especially as it would remove the option to combo with only 6 mana and spit out Goblins off an Infernal before Counterbalance, Hymn or Thalia affect you, something that ANT wasn't able to do regardless. I hope that also explained my stance towards wonderPreaux's question earlier.

If you Guys want an additional natural drawn bomb in matchups where EtW isn't Hot anyways after boarding, I would think about boarding in a SB engine.

Woooooooo! 3000 posts! Champagne for everyone!

[wonderPreaux]

To clarify, my suggestion of 2nd Ad Nauseam in the side was for combo matchups, not an idea to main it over EtW. Against combo, EtW comes out anyway, and its not like Pyroblast, Bribery, or Surgical Extraction makes for a really effectual one-of against storm/reanimator/mana-dredge. I wasn't advocating for just maining 2 Ad Nauseam in all matchups, there are certainly aggro decks that make ad nauseam less effective and make EtW a lot better etc

[sawatarix]

Ah,finally got it !

Well,i would do that for sure,increasing explosiveness is always good in combo-matchups .


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

[Lemnear]

To clarify, my suggestion of 2nd Ad Nauseam in the side was for combo matchups, not an idea to main it over EtW. Against combo, EtW comes out anyway, and its not like Pyroblast, Bribery, or Surgical Extraction makes for a really effectual one-of against storm/reanimator/mana-dredge. I wasn't advocating for just maining 2 Ad Nauseam in all matchups, there are certainly aggro decks that make ad nauseam less effective and make EtW a lot better etc

That is not what I said. You suggested second AN in the board, Sawatarix a second in the Main. I adressed both ideas in a single paragaph and pointed out why I don't like cutting the options to fast Goblins in game 1, nor see the significant value of having the second AN in the side for combo matchups if you have Bribery/Telemin in the side and 4 IT + 1 AN in the main and you can remain threat density in case of removing EtW for combo matchups (or other matchups where EtW is lackluster) by siding in a SB engine in it's place

Overall I doubt we need to dedicate SB slots for being even faster

[Thrasher]

Hi guys, got a question about a play i did in a test game versus UWR Miracle. The game state was as follows:
Me.
Tropical tapped.
Volcanic, Sea untapped.
Hand: Cabal Therapy, Wish, Infernal, Petal, LED, Brainstorm.
Top of the library: LED, Petal.

Opponent:
Volcanic,Tundra,Fetch untapped.
Fluster, Brainstorm, Jace as the only relevant cards in hand.

I had an AdN with one mana floating after therapy, but he had flusterstorm. I tapped Usea and played therapy. He used BS, i named Fluster. He ended up drawing Force,Counterbalance,Flusterstorm, put back 2 flusterstorm's and i lost. I'd like some feedback on this play. My reasoning for this is: he has only a brainstorm to find another counter, which couldn't be flusterstorm, or therapy would've hit it. This left only max 7 cards, which seemed fair in a 49 cards deck. Also, if one of those outs was pierce, it wouldn't have stopped me from comboing if he had played it on wish(after brainstorm->petal x2->led x2), although i doubt anyone would've done that.

[Lemnear]

Hi guys, got a question about a play i did in a test game versus UWR Miracle. The game state was as follows:
Me.
Tropical tapped.
Volcanic, Sea untapped.
Hand: Cabal Therapy, Wish, Infernal, Petal, LED, Brainstorm.
Top of the library: LED, Petal.

Opponent:
Volcanic,Tundra,Fetch untapped.
Fluster, Brainstorm, Jace as the only relevant cards in hand.

I had an AdN with one mana floating after therapy, but he had flusterstorm. I tapped Usea and played therapy. He used BS, i named Fluster. He ended up drawing Force,Counterbalance,Flusterstorm, put back 2 flusterstorm's and i lost. I'd like some feedback on this play. My reasoning for this is: he has only a brainstorm to find another counter, which couldn't be flusterstorm, or therapy would've hit it. This left only max 7 cards, which seemed fair in a 49 cards deck. Also, if one of those outs was pierce, it wouldn't have stopped me from comboing if he had played it on wish(after brainstorm->petal x2->led x2), although i doubt anyone would've done that.

In other words you knew he had flusterstorm and you expected him to hide it as a logical response and still named flusterstorm instead of next-level him by naming another counterspell like FoW? You can play around Pierce (if you name FoW and still see him holding Pierce) if you go for EtW AND can immediately flashback Therapy for his Jace or other annoyance he drew off the brainstorm.

I don't see a problem

[Thrasher]

He had a 37,7% chance of drawing a non-flusterstorm playing 7 other counters, 42,1% playing 8 and 33% playing 6. If he had not found one, my only problem would've been the flusterstorm he might have kept, which is why i called it. I could've gone for natural lethal tendrils playing around pierce, too. I guess i relied too much on luck and maths.

Thank you.

[Lemnear]

He had a 37,7% chance of drawing a non-flusterstorm playing 7 other counters, 42,1% playing 8 and 33% playing 6. If he had not found one, my only problem would've been the flusterstorm he might have kept, which is why i called it. I could've gone for natural lethal tendrils playing around pierce, too. I guess i relied too much on luck and maths.

Thank you.

The point is: Why should he expose his Flusterstorm(s) to your Therapy if he knew that you know that he holds it? The best he can do is hiding it and hope you can't combo this turn out with the lonely untapped land in play (as he don't know about your hand). Otherwise we would just lose a card for nothing

[Bryant Cook]

I play 2 Ad Nauseam in my Ant deck and i would also run 2 in tes instead of empty maybe.
(Currently Empty the Warrens isn't that good in general because of all the cheap answers to goblins in each decks sideboard)

Royce and Bryant: During your path to victory last week,how many rounds have you won with goblins?
How many ad nauseam into grapeshot did you cast?


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

Empty is fine right now, it's much stronger in TES in comparison to ANT. The speed, the additional storm from Chrome Mox as well as the full compliment of Cabal Therapy. It's not ideal against fast combo, but it gets the job done.

I'd have to check my notes, but I win about 40% of my games by attacking and another 40% with Ad Nauseam. With the remaining 20% being natural storm or Past in Flames.

I had a pretty awesome game against Sneak and show where he went two Show and Tell into Grisel tapping a Tomb, fetching and probing. Meaning, when I attempted to win he went to one life after drawing 14 cards, I had barely enough mana to win with Grapeshot through a Daze (His list was a little weird). Felt good.

[Togores]

Usualy whenI know the counter of my opponents hand and he brainstorms in response to Therapy I go for the sencond most posible counter that would get me. If he Outsmart me keeping it in hand I still know the other counter. If he puts on top and I get the other I just win. So whats the problem?

[Machahiko]

In the example game against UWr Miracles why wouldn't the miracles player put back one flusterstorm and jace/counterbalance, that way he/she will have fow+blue card and flusterstorm to use? He could just go and flusterstorm the cabal therapy if he would want to as well and that would leave him with fow + flusterstorm if he decides to keep two flusterstorms and fow?

[Thrasher]

In the example game against UWr Miracles why wouldn't the miracles player put back one flusterstorm and jace/counterbalance, that way he/she will have fow+blue card and flusterstorm to use? He could just go and flusterstorm the cabal therapy if he would want to as well and that would leave him with fow + flusterstorm if he decides to keep two flusterstorms and fow?

It definitely makes sense.

Usualy whenI know the counter of my opponents hand and he brainstorms in response to Therapy I go for the sencond most posible counter that would get me. If he Outsmart me keeping it in hand I still know the other counter. If he puts on top and I get the other I just win. So whats the problem?

That's something i often do, too. The difference here is that i didn't want him to untap, so knowing the other counter wouldn't have been useful. If i had named force and missed due to him keeping flusterstorm, he would have had a counter in hand + a shuffle effect + counterbalance/top/cantrips which he might have seen with brainstorm, which would have let him either lock me or find more counters, while all the protection i had was a wish->seize (using my whole next turn) or brainstorm into petal + 2 unknown cards, one of which had to be either a discard spell or a ponder into a discard spell, if i wanted to have a shot at winning the game.

The point is: Why should he expose his Flusterstorm(s) to your Therapy if he knew that you know that he holds it? The best he can do is hiding it and hope you can't combo this turn out with the lonely untapped land in play (as he don't know about your hand). Otherwise we would just lose a card for nothing

The underlined part. I was thinking as if he knew what i had in my hand.

[Lemnear]

Aside from the mindgames to outsmart your opponent here, I don't see a point in discussion a gamestate in which your opponent has Jace, FoW, Counterbalance and 2 Flusterstorms available with all the mana to cast those