[Primer/Deck] Burn

[iamajellydonut]

I've been playing Goblins forever now and have thought about adding some Eidolons to either the sideboard or maindeck. Since Burn has been running it consistently now I thought you'd be the ones to ask this to. How has Eidolon affected the combo matchup? The Storm matchup in particular? Is he a Must Answer card, or is he a card they can often play through?

Pyrostatic Pillar has sucked for a really long time against combo. If you'd ever consider running Eidolon, run it because it's generally a really good card. If you expect it to stomp combo, you will be just as disappointed now as you were eight years ago with non-Extended Pyrostatic Pillar.

[jrw1985]

Pyrostatic Pillar has sucked for a really long time against combo. If you'd ever consider running Eidolon, run it because it's generally a really good card. If you expect it to stomp combo, you will be just as disappointed now as you were eight years ago with non-Extended Pyrostatic Pillar.

Thank you for slapping the stupid out of me.

[datanaga]

I'm sad, that we have to speak about bad card choices (relic of progenitus, 7 fetchlands, of course searing blaze is better than searing blood with fetchlands) instead of deeper conversation. It seems that burn is for newcomers or for people not involved in the legacy format:(
What about eidolon on the draw? I find myself sideboarding it out against almost everything playing creatures (not against decks playing too few creatures like UWR delver).

[iamajellydonut]

It seems that burn is for newcomers or for people not involved in the legacy format:(

Aaand?

[Kring]

Eidolon is a storm hate card that is very very good against most of the field. It does not win the game by itself, nope sorry. Its a card that paired with others, help you win the game. If you have 2 on the field against anyone, you probably just won.

I keep eidolon against creature decks. Even if you dont attack with him, netting 8 life, while defending against a horde of creatures is underrated.

[Darkenslight]

Eidolon is a storm hate card that is very very good against most of the field. It does not win the game by itself, nope sorry. Its a card that paired with others, help you win the game. If you have 2 on the field against anyone, you probably just won.

I keep eidolon against creature decks. Even if you dont attack with him, netting 8 life, while defending against a horde of creatures is underrated.

This i part of why Eidolon is a much better card than the card it's based on - it can not only get in for additional damage, but he's somewhat decent against BS decks as a side-effect. I guess the card he's most like is Price of Progress - he's good for additional reach and can easily hit that magic spot of 3 damage per mana spent, and occasionally does a lot more (see, for example, Elves! - they can't go off or pseudo-Harmonize with Visionary, as each cast Shocks them.

[Justin]

Eidolon has made a huge difference in this deck. I remember when the card was first spoiled, I said on this thread that it belongs in the maindeck, but nobody agreed with me at the time. I think its value is pretty clear now.

[Kring]

Eidolon has made a huge difference in this deck. I remember when the card was first spoiled, I said on this thread that it belongs in the maindeck, but nobody agreed with me at the time. I think its value is pretty clear now.

It made me play this deck again, thats for sure. This deck can only be better with new prints, and not necessarily with a better bolt, its with cards like eidolon!

[paeng4983]

Anyone here played this deck for the past week?

[ironclad8690]

I played a few games this morning. Beat shardless bug, ub dark depths, and miracles. The die roll is huge in the miracles matchup. What are you guys playing in the flex slots?

I had 3 searing blaze 3 PoP and 2 sulfuric vortex. I was playing 4 eidolons, lavamancers, and goblin guides.

[ironclad8690]

I'm sad, that we have to speak about bad card choices (relic of progenitus, 7 fetchlands, of course searing blaze is better than searing blood with fetchlands) instead of deeper conversation. It seems that burn is for newcomers or for people not involved in the legacy format:(
What about eidolon on the draw? I find myself sideboarding it out against almost everything playing creatures (not against decks playing too few creatures like UWR delver).

What are you bringing in that is better?

[Kring]

I played a few games this morning. Beat shardless bug, ub dark depths, and miracles. The die roll is huge in the miracles matchup. What are you guys playing in the flex slots?

I had 3 searing blaze 3 PoP and 2 sulfuric vortex. I was playing 4 eidolons, lavamancers, and goblin guides.

Im playing the same. I think it isn't about what you have in game 1, but how fast you kill them with your bolts, and if they have a countertop assembled, having different casting cost burn spells in hand.
I have a "shaving numbers" approach when sideboarding, that might have won me some games alone. For example, price of progress. Everyone knows miracles is 3 colours, but only uses like 5 non basics, not thinking about the fetches. So, for me, instead of taking off all prices, i keep 2, or 1. I never loose value like this, i think. And thats the approach i think it should be done in matchups like miracles. Oh and burn to the dome people!

[datanaga]

What are you bringing in that is better?

Depends on matchup, but usually searing bloods, pyroblasts, bridges against merfolks etc.

no vortex main, 4x blaze, 4x lavamancer (heavy delver and merfolk meta)

my last sb:

3x searing blood
2x smash to smithereens
3x bridge
2x pyroblast
2x vortex
3x shusher

[AmokPL]

Eidolon has made a huge difference in this deck. I remember when the card was first spoiled, I said on this thread that it belongs in the maindeck, but nobody agreed with me at the time. I think its value is pretty clear now.

that might have been me :D and I confirm after testing it is a solid maindeck card.

question - what would be the minimum number of fetches to run Searing Blaze. My mate is putting it together (for modern) and I know the more the better but would 4 be enough or in that case better to replace them with Bloods?

[Kael]

question - what would be the minimum number of fetches to run Searing Blaze. My mate is putting it together (for modern) and I know the more the better but would 4 be enough or in that case better to replace them with Bloods?

I've been playing the deck with 3 MB Blaze and 0 fetches and it works just fine. The more you play, the more likely you are to be in a situation in which you can capitalize on being able to trigger landfall at a time other than during one of your mainphases. Blood is just bad mainboard IMO, too high of a chance of being a dead card.

[iamajellydonut]

I've been playing the deck with 3 MB Blaze and 0 fetches and it works just fine. The more you play, the more likely you are to be in a situation in which you can capitalize on being able to trigger landfall at a time other than during one of your mainphases. Blood is just bad mainboard IMO, too high of a chance of being a dead card.

This is something of a rhetorical question, but what does Searing Blaze destroy that Searing Blood doesn't?

[ironclad8690]

This is something of a rhetorical question, but what does Searing Blaze destroy that Searing Blood doesn't?

Serra Avenger, Painter's Servant, Lodestone Golem unconditionally.

Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary, Scavenging Ooze, Merfolk with 2 Lords out conditionally.

Pretty rare cases, but still important to have IMO.

[scottpou]

Serra Avenger, Painter's Servant, Lodestone Golem unconditionally.

Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary, Scavenging Ooze, Merfolk with 2 Lords out conditionally.

Pretty rare cases, but still important to have IMO.

Against MUD (lodestone) and Imperial Painter (Servant) I am bringing in 4 full smash to smithereens for blood/blaze. Now, serra avenger is in Death & Taxes and in that matchup blood or blaze has more important targets (imo).

[iamajellydonut]

Pretty rare cases, but still important to have IMO.

As I said, my question was rhetorical. And the most important function of Searing Blaze, though your response did technically answer my question, is that it's still an Incinerate should the Tarmogoyf be too big, the Mother of Runes give it protection, their Karakas bounce the target, etc. Provided they have the creature and you have the land, Searing Blaze is always damage to the dome whereas Searing Blood can sometimes fall short.

That being said, again, my question was rhetorical. And the point I was trying to make with my question was that both are extremely conditional. For example, and probably the most realistic example cited so far... What if you don't have a land? The people who don't consider this are the same people that believe Delver starts as a 3/2 and can never whiff. Getting stuck on "no more land" is an extremely realistic possibility, and frankly one that's pretty decent for Burn.

So, for an example, a realistic example, you've got two land online and no more in hand. You do your thing, pass the turn. They do their thing and drop a Stoneforge Mystic that searches for Batterskull. Your turn again and you're still stuck on two land. How does Searing Blaze help you now? Out of a hand of any combination of Eidolon, Goblin Guide, Fireblast, Lava Spike, Price of Progress, Rift Bolt, and/or Sulfuric Vortex, with one Searing Blaze, how do you stop that Batterskull from dropping and swinging the life totals? Hell, at that point, without wasting your lands on Fireblast, you can't even prevent the Batterskull from attacking you at least once. But don't worry, Searing Blood's chance of being a dead card is way too huge.

Both are reliable and utterly unreliable in equally shitty-but-I-need-you amounts, and no matter which you choose it's a "fine" choice. But to make that choice on a whim is gross ignorance.

[wooboy11]

As I said, my question was rhetorical. And the most important function of Searing Blaze, though your response did technically answer my question, is that it's still an Incinerate should the Tarmogoyf be too big, the Mother of Runes give it protection, their Karakas bounce the target, etc.

Both are reliable and utterly unreliable in equally shitty-but-I-need-you amounts, and no matter which you choose it's a "fine" choice. But to make that choice on a whim is gross ignorance.

I think if the creature is color protected or bounced, the damage won't go to its owner, since the creature can't be targeted, so the spell is countered.

I am still testing things out, but theoretically the situations in which you need to destroy a target the most are generally answered by Searing Blood (Stoneforge, DRS, MoR): things you can't let them untap with. At the moment, I'm splitting 2/2.