[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[Sloshthedark]

P-E and Nevilshute:


bitterblossom looks great against miracle, but really slow compared to pyromancer

what carsten und i like the most at the moment are 3 sensei's devining tops

@next big tuornaments: fortunately there will be another prague eternal tournament during november this year, i'll definately go there to defend my victory :)
ovino is also a challenge this year,who will be around?

SDT is no go for me right now, I really like Pithing Needle in the SB,

Entreat and EE

booked my flight to Milan, dunno about the Prague Eternal yet but if there will be no BOM in the autumn there is a plenty of blank pages in the calendar :)

[Togores]

top is op.


And I will 80% going to ovino with the Spanish crew^^

[zerzab11]

Just need to chime in here as I saw you guys mentioning Ovino. I haven't found any informations on this tournament yet, anyone willing to share these please?

@ Pyromancer vs Miracles: I liked this "tech" a lot and do still like it. Biggest problem for Miracles seems boarding properly. Swords might be bad against Pyromancer but needed against Xantids. Leaving in some Terminus seems like a good idea against Pyrodude-strategy (as it's the only card than will trade 1:1) but is ofc the biggest blank, when not needed. So what I want to say is, the biggest advantage for ANT in this MU is, that it can be the perfect deck itself but Miracles has to adapt (anticipating Swarms? Pyromancer? Tops? Carpets?) and somehow dilute his maindeck (playing maybe dead cards...). At the end it really doesn't matter all too much what you play, but does matter more what your opponent thinks you'll play ;)

[nevilshute]

What I like the most when approaching the Miracles MU is to have as the backbone of my strategy the "grinding station" approach, which is basically to play for the long game and win through natural storm cards. To me, there are several options when building around this strategy, one of them is value creatures. Once it was Dark Confidant, more recently it has been Pyromancer. I think Pyromancer is just flat out better at its job than Bob. If miracles start anticipating this and leaving several terminus and swords to plowshares it weakens the pyromancer plan for sure. In that case I think additional tops is an okay plan, but I don't think I would adopt it. I think the matchup is fine even without the pyromancers as long as I have access to 2-4 storm cards after sideboard. That's why I'm always running tendrils #2 in the sideboard to bring in. I also run an Empty in my main (there is something to be said, of course, about the cross hate empty suffers from when they are expecting the pyromancer). Bitterblossom seems interesting but ultimately seems to have too many drawbacks. It's slow and the life loss is non-trivial and is still vulnerable to the same sort of hate that the Pyromancer is. Okay, it lets us rebuild, but is that good enough? I don't know.

I don't think I will be making it out for neither Ovino or Prague.

There will be the Danish Legacy Masters here in Copenhagen on the 12th of October which I will of course be attending. We usually reach around 100 players (last November we set the record at 138) and the prizes are usually pretty decent.

I'm one of the organizers so feel free to hit me up for info btw

[Togores]

Ovino is 3-5 october in the usual place of Milan.


Thats the fb page:

https://m.facebook.com/Ovinogeddon?_rdr

[P-E]

More Top and Tendrils is an ok plan instead of pyromancers.
Also maybe i'll put 2 entreat with more top haha just to kill Miracle with his own weapon

[sawatarix]

The problem with Pyromancer is not miracles - this is the matchup where pyromacer really shines.
It's the other matchups like team america, patriot and other delverdecks in the format, these decks have way too many answers to pyrodude than before BoM9 because they fear the red boy now.it seems that these decks are prepared for this ambush.
So currently i only bring in 4 pyrodudes (read 4 of my 15 sideboard cards) against miracle control and the question here is: - worth it?
please don't get me wrong: i still like him alot since i came up with the idea but the effectiveness has changed for the worse pretty quickly.

there are still many ways to beat miracle control:

- fast ad nauseam/empty the warrens on turn 1 when only force of will is a card.
- alternate wincondition: dark confidant/young pyromancer/bitterblossom/creatures in general - maybe delver,that's what carsten suggested but i'm skeptical :D
- grinding station: just draw and play lands until you have a full grip, then destroy conuterbalance with decay and play (multiple) tendrils from your hand.
- overload their countermagic: play to many business spells (including must-counter-spells like xantid swarm,a ton of discard spells,multiple past in flames or ad nauseams,sylvan library,...). one of them will resolve -> gg (that's what i did in g2 at the final @prague eternal)
remember: we are the ones who ask question to our opponent and he has to answer it - otherwise he's dead.

as you can see there are many ways to beat miracle, finally it's up to you which route you prefer. most of the time your opening hand will tell you :)

By the way, the coverage videos from prague eternal will be on youtube in a couple of days. that's what ZUZY the organizer told me yesterday.
Can't wait to analyze my own plays :D

[Sloshthedark]

There will be the Danish Legacy Masters here in Copenhagen on the 12th of October which I will of course be attending. We usually reach around 100 players (last November we set the record at 138) and the prizes are usually pretty decent.

I'm one of the organizers so feel free to hit me up for info btw

Just when I was about to look for it, I will try to make it...

btw. Second edition of Prague Eternal 7-9.november 2014, I guess you guys know already

@PE - I actually played 1-2 Entreat in 4c DDFT, was decent outside of Top into EtA play 2 LED, during your combat make 6 Angels, block Cannonist, Mindcensor, 2x Search hatebear swing back for 24.. The guy was... Sad...

[Panda-san]

@PE - I actually played 1-2 Entreat in 4c DDFT, was decent outside of Top into EtA play 2 LED, during your combat make 6 Angels, block Cannonist, Mindcensor, 2x Search hatebear swing back for 24.. The guy was... Sad...[/QUOTE]

that's actually a pretty interesting idea! Against what did you bring/leave it in? How many tops did you play than?

[Sloshthedark]

that's actually a pretty interesting idea! Against what did you bring/leave it in? How many tops did you play than?

I don't remember exactly it was a 61st card to win the game yet another weird way in DDFT and avoid thinking too much. Generally I do not like it outside of DDFT it's inconsistent at 2 copies without tutors I even tried to build around it and create some weird Counter top control with LEDs, BW and posiible DD finish... Btw. my build DDFT the deck had 7 chants, ant has none, 4 SDT is mandatory for DD... and I even had Grand Abolisher in the SB...
To sum up, cute, inconsistent, doenst make sense without running W

[CabalTherapy]

Grand Abolisher

Now that's what I call a hatebear.



edit: I guess we have all points of view of Prague Eternal online now:
Carsten's report with ANT: www.starcitygames.com/article/28917_Prague-Eternal-Weekend-Legacy-Report.html
Kai's 1st place report with ANT: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...s-for-everyone
My 2 times top8 report with ANT: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...es-Top8-report
And finally Tomáš' 2nd place report with Miracles who played against Kai and me on Saturday and which is very well-written (Thanks to Tomáš for this one.): http://www.eternalcentral.com/prague...y-second-best/

[gregtron]

P-E and Nevilshute:

you are right, maybe it is time to give the red boy a break for a couple of weeks.
secret techs have their strongest impact on the game when nobody expect them - well the word 'secret' tech explains it by itself.
bitterblossom looks great against miracle, but really slow compared to pyromancer.you basically give your miracle opponent so many turns before he dies that he can find his 1-off entreat the angels to actually race you.
what carsten und i like the most at the moment are 3 sensei's devining tops - 1 in the maindeck and 2 additional tops in the sideboard.you have so much mana available each turn against miracle control that you can just lean back and spin the top every single turn until you have the perfect hand to crush theirs.maybe additional copies of tendrils complete this strategy although carsten dislikes it.

top is also a nice tool for the mirror game by the way, it's a little bit slow but really useful if both players cast a ton of discard spells on each other.
moreover, flusterstorm on the top makes it really hard for them to win through it.

@next big tuornaments: fortunately there will be another prague eternal tournament during november this year, i'll definately go there to defend my victory :)
ovino is also a challenge this year,who will be around?

I've always liked a second Tendrils against slow control decks. Why does Carsten dislike it?

I'm into the three Tops. I've been running two (one main, one side) for a long time.

[CabalTherapy]

Hey guys, I just came back from Berlin's Legacy tournament.
After I went 3-0-1 with Burn (yeah, that's right, Burn. After 19 Storm rounds at Prague Eternal I wanted to play something really stupid and well it worked...) I decided to play ANT today.
Took my Grim Venser list to this 4 rounds-tournament. (1 Grim Tutor main and 1 Venser in the side. Wanted to troll a bit against SneakShow. I call him the new Pyromancer.^^)
Rounds were accordingly:
1. Reanimator
He wins the first match with Griselbrand into Iona... I board in 2 Xantid Swarm, 2 Flusterstorm. In game two I manage to go off with a protected Ad Nauseam but have to pass the turn. He draws nothing relevant and I combo him out on my third turn. He begins the third match with Ponder and I sculp a hand which is mighty enough to win through several counterspells.
2:1

2. Shardless Bug
He goes for Catacombs>Bayou>Deathrite. I put him on some kind of Dark Maverick whatever.dec and run straight into a Force... The next game was one-sided because I had everything and he just some creatures. During the following one I had to win through M.Mage on Tendrils, Clique, D.Shaman and Null Rod and managed to take this one home with the help of mighty Chain of Vapor.

2:1

3. SneakShow
He attacks me with Emrakul on turn 3, I kill him on my turn 3 with a Swamp floating on top of the deck. (I really wanted to do some Venser shenanigans here.) After some draw go from both of us and several C. Therapys he has Sneak Attack but no dude in hand. I eventually flip Infernal and storm for the win.
2:0

4. Elves - our dear sawatarix Kai
I was the only dude with 9 points and wanted to draw with Kai who in contrast wanted to play... I win the first match after a misplay via natural Tutorchain while the second goes to Kai who has a good draw and enough dudes to kill me. The decisive match was intersting as I revealed 3 Cabal Rituals and 1 Infernal to Kai's Thoughtseize after I brainstormed in response. He thought I am a peasant and takes the Infernal while I had Infernal floating on top. GG.
2:1

Unfortuately, Venser didn't see action but I hope I can slam him against some SneakShow.dec soon.

[sawatarix]

well done my friend ,i should stop playing decks without brainstorms i guess.

playing elves against ant feels so miserable and i don't have any clue how to beat the deck.
i boarded in 4 thoughtseize 3 duress 2 flusterstorm and 1 null rod (10 cards) and i still lost.
in g3 my last opening hand was interesting:

2 thoughtseize
1 nettle sentinel
4 lands

would you keep this hand against ant on the draw?
i did and lost because ant gives a shit on 2 thoughtseize and a random elf :D

[Dragonslayer_90]

Hello fellow Stormers,

Can you guys give your input on the Sneak and Show MU? I have a friend that makes it seems like it's like 90-10 in their favor or something pretty bad every time we talk about it when at worst, for me at least, it has been 55-45 in their favor. 50-50 when they have no leyline to bring in postboard. So I guess I want to know how good, bad, or even this matchup is and what sort of approach should be taken when playing ANT against Sneak and Show.

EDIT: My friend also thinks that Xantid Swarm is not good enough for the matchups we usually bring it in for, which is usually Griselbrand combo decks. He says that it is too slow and a lot has to go right for your for it to be effective. I am a bit skeptical as I feel like Xantid Swarm makes Griselbrand not an auto-win. I also just don't know what other cards I would bring in against sneak and show and reanimator aside from flusterstorm, karakas, graveyard hate, etc. I would appreciate your guys' input on this as well.

[CabalTherapy]

Hello fellow Stormers,

Can you guys give your input on the Sneak and Show MU? I have a friend that makes it seems like it's like 90-10 in their favor or something pretty bad every time we talk about it when at worst, for me at least, it has been 55-45 in their favor. 50-50 when they have no leyline to bring in postboard. So I guess I want to know how good, bad, or even this matchup is and what sort of approach should be taken when playing ANT against Sneak and Show.

Basically, your friend has no clue what he is talking about. In my opinion the SneakShow MU is in our favour; maybe something like 55-45 or even 60-40 (although I dislike MU percentages).
The key here are your discard spells and since Leyline falls more and more out of SneakShow's favour one does not need to worry about bringing in Chain of Vapor. Ant is faster, has almost no dead draws (in contrast to SneakS's multiple fatties or multiple business spell draws), while SneakShow has no way to interact with Ant's handcards. Best preconditions for a win. Postboard we have Xantid Swarm which is mightier than Griselbrand. (Don't forget, you can sacrifice Xantid Swarm to Therapy in order to prevent their attempt to land their monsters onto the stormfield.)

Edit after your edit: There is no need to make our deck weaker with too much sideboard material in this MU.

[GoboLord]

Hey there,

I attended a tournament today and picked up ANT. Here's the list.

Mana (31)
8 Fetchlands
2 U-Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
2 Island
1 Swamp

4 D.Rit
4 C.Rit
4 Petal
4 LED

Business (29)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Infernal TUtor
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
1 Sensei's Diving Top

SB (15)
4 Dread of Night
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Ad Nauseam
2 Flusterstorm
2 Tendrils of Agony
4 Young Pyromancer


Got the idea to play SDT in MD and Pyromancer in SB (those slots were occupied by 1 Burning Wish and 4 Burning WIsh-targets respectively, just a few weeks ago) from sawatrix's Prague list.
I wasn't really content with Burning Wish for quite a long time and exchanged it for Preordain #3 some time, then came back to BW. SDT seemed like the card I was looking for, so I tried it.
Same goes for Pyromancers. I didn't like Empty the Warrens, but why not run them if you are on BW anyways? Well, Pyromancers looked promising so I tried them as well.
Not running G was a meta-choice and a good decision for the 'field' today.

Here is how it went.

R1: Reanimator (2-0)

R2: Burn (2-1)

R3: Maverick (0-2)
My deck trolled me. I lost G1 with 3 Cabal Rituals, 1 LED and 3 Infernal Tutor in hand, 7 cards in GY (4 of which were cantrips) and only an Basic-Island in play (no Wastelands were played this game!!). G2 I kept drawing lands which kept my Infernal Tutor from being hellbent.

R4: 4c Loam (2-1)
G1 I went off on turn 1 on-the-play. G2 I was met with Leyline of the Void on turn 0, chalice @ 1 on turn 1 (out of mox diamond and land) and Ethersworn Cannonist on turn 2. for Game 3 I boarded as follows (not sure if that was right, so I'd like to hear comments on that)
-3 Duress, -4 CT
+4 Pyroman, +2 Chain of Vapor, +1 Ad Nauseam
How would you board here?

R5: Mono W Quinn-like Lock-deck (0-2)


I found SDT really sweet. Mancers didn't impress me, but I probably didn't play against decks where they are supposed to shine.
Looking forward to count spells and skip combat phases soon.

-GL

[Surfinbird]

Hi!

Last sunday i reached the top8 of the catalan league of legacy (51 players) with this list:

1 Ad Nauseam
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Brainstorm

4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian probe
4 Duress
4 Infernal tutor
3 Preordain
2 Past in flames
2 Cabal therapy
1 Tendrils of Agony

4 Lion's eye diamond
4 Lotus petal

1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Bayou
1 Tropical island
1 Volcanic island
2 Underground sea
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Misty rainforest
4 Polluted delta

SB:

4 dread of night
3 xantid swarm
3 abrupt decay
2 chain of vapor
2 tormod's crypt
1 cabal therapy

I made a 5-1 winning against 2 death and taxes, jund, UR burn and deathblade, and i lost against a brug delver with shamans, stifles and lots of counters:(

As you can see, i'm testing a second past in flames, this are the reasons:

1. It works as a storm engine in those games where you've got lots of mana, at least 3 cantrips in the graveyard but no tutor in hand.

2. It works as a protection spell when you've got the combo in hand but no duress/therapy. (ritual, ritual, led, infernal, crack led discarding past in flames. If infernal gets countered, play the flashback of the past in flames, if not, look for a discard spell and play it).

3. It works as a cabal ritual in hands like this one: dark ritual, tutor, led, pif. Simply play the infernal for a cabal ritual, play it and then cast the flashback of the past in flames.

4. It's nuts against decks with lots of discard.

Of course, it makes our AdN a little worse and seeing 2 in hand is horrible, but well, we're running a playset of brainstorms to solve this!

What do you think about playing the second PiF?

[nevilshute]

What do you think about playing the second PiF?

I played with two Past in Flames at the BoM and did well with it. I was not, however, playing Ad Nauseam in the main at the time. I think it really comes down to whether or not you're playing AN in the main. Since I wasn't I felt I had some CMC flexibility. I played a Grim Tutor and two PiF as well as an Empty the Warrens. I really like the the 2nd PiF and I won't rule out going back to playing it, but atm I'm back on AN main deck.

The 2nd PiF is great for the reasons you've listed. It is an incredibly powerful card (probably the most powerful engine card in the deck). That being said, I did find myself almost auto-siding out one of my two PiF against everything except occasionally combo (but even here, I wanted my Ad Nauseam in from the sideboard and so felt like I had to go down to just one PiF). Two PiF makes the opponent's GY-hate more relevant. In that sense, when you are always siding out a card after board it is prudent to ask questions about its inclusion to begin with.

[Patrunkenphat7]

I have been playing 2 Past in Flames for a few months now, and so have my friends who play my list. It has been doing very well, made top 16 at the last Invitational with it, and my friend has been X-0ing his pretty competitive local Legacy events with it. It is awesome against discard decks; there are so many situations with this deck where you want to naturally draw Past in Flames. Note that we play Ad Nauseam in the SB.