[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[Sloshthedark]

I think the argument should be about :

Pithing Needle vs. Xantids Swarm (rather than Krosan Grip)

and

Abrupt Decay vs. Krosan Grip ratio (2-1/3-1/2-2/3-0/4-0 and such)


I can't really see the interchangability of Grip and Needle outside of raw SB space

[Lemnear]

I think the argument should be about :

Pithing Needle vs. Xantids Swarm (rather than Krosan Grip)

and

Abrupt Decay vs. Krosan Grip ratio (2-1/3-1/2-2/3-0/4-0 and such)


I can't really see the interchangability of Grip and Needle outside of raw SB space

I do neither. My point was about Needles double-duty against Miracles and S&T (and other decks possibly) and therefore being more sideboard-space-efficient than K.Grip which has very limited application outside the miracles-matchup.

[Togores]

I think the sideboard I am going to start testing will be (with 1 SDT in the main):

+3 Xantid Swarm
+3 Abrupt Decay
+2 Krosan Grip
+2 Chain of Vapor
+3 Dread of Night
+1 Sensei's Divining Top
+1 Karakas

This fits in the grips and an extra top for the grindy matches while still keeping the 3 dreads (which I have found to be near unbeatable for DnT) and a karakas (which I have always found to be insane, whether it is against reanimator or Thalia plus mom or show and tell).

Dread of night says hello when facing a cannonist or 1-2 revokers. With vial + revoker or vial + canonist and you one dread your off. I think is cool because dread + chain solves lots of problems. But is not the final answer.




On other part, I have been playing PITHING in TES since a few months and it was great, I didnt played it in ANT because I love the tops, and i dont know if nullifing my top and his is a good plan. But If I would not play top I would play pithing. Have won so many games with TES ust by having neddle on my starting grip. In late game was really bad but usualy if my opp diddnt had counterbalance lock it got hard countered.

[CabalTherapy]

So I crushed yet another local tournament with ANT yesterday playing my list with 1 Grim main and following SB:
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Tendrils of Agony
3 Chain of Vapor
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Massacre
2 Xantid Swarm
I wanted to try the Grinding Station board again but in the end I will go back to some Flusterstorms due to our Combometa.

Round 1 ANT
I put him on ANT since I know that he is learning this deck at the moment. On the draw, I was forced to discard my Infernal Tutor but was able to assemble the PiF kill faster
than he could. Not much to say about the second game because he kills me with AdN on turn 2, whereas my turn 2 kill was on top of my library after a turn one Ponder.
The final game was much more gridy leaving him with Petal, Land in hand and me with the cluncy Tendrils. Fortunately, I drew Therapy > targeting me "Tendrils of Agony" into Pif kill.
2:1
1-0

Round 2 Burg by Sawatarix
Our dear Sawatarix drew very weak and I had everything for a solid AdN from 17 life. In the second game he drew counter into counter and the deadly Lightning Bolt with Delver of Secrets.
The last match was way more close because I had to go off via Pif with a Ponder + Probe in order to find LED or Cabal Ritual and (of course) got there.
2:1
2-0

Round 3 UR Delver
This was the new UR list with Monastery Swiftdude and Treasure Cruise. I didn't remember much but I eventually win with AdN and some cantrips to find the kill. UR is super fast and my opponent was able to kill me during the second match with a Delver and Swiftdude with Force, Flusterstorm, Pierce and Pitchcard in hand. I got my revenge in game three where I went for the kill during the last possible turn with only one Ponder and mana in hand. Ponder > Probe > resp. LED crack UUU > Preordain > Brainstorm and the last Brainstorm card was Infernal Tutor for the win.
2:1
3-0

Round 4 Miracles
I was the only one with 9 points and had to play against Miracles. My opponent made jokes about beating 2 ANT players beforehand during the tournament and I retorted: "They were only adepts, you know. They were the ones you have to beat in order to move on to the Gym Leader (in Pokemon) and I am the Gym Leader. If you beat me, you get the Tendrils medal." I won the first game with AdN via Cabal Ritual which quickly had threshold. "Your first Pokemon just fainted. Choose your next." He chose wisely and after a long game where I had 4 Goblins and he Clique and two Counterbalances he killed me with 4 4/4 Angels. Just as we wanted to start the third game the time was over, I drew my 7 > mulligan into a shaky/slow hand into draw.
1:1 and no Tendrily medal for him
3-0-1 1st place

[theauthenticsimpsonian]

Hello, so I'm new to these forums, but I wanted to ask for some advice with this deck, though I do plan on reading most of this thread when I get a chance. I plan on attending GP New Jersey, since I can get the time off and I've never played in a GP before (though I've been to a few SCG Opens with Dredge). I have a Tendrils deck that I've been playing a little, but I don't have a ton of experience outside of my local store that has a very small weekly legacy event, plus I just recently acquired the last of the cards to finish it. What would you feel is the best way to practice for such a large event? How do the new cards from KoT affect you playing this deck (especially Treasure Cruise). I'll end up having to do most of the testing on my own due to my work schedule, and I would appreciate some help in figuring out how to focus my time effectively so I don't playtest incorrectly or focus on playing the wrong matchups. Also, how should I build a sideboard for an event when I could literally play against anything and I don't have a clue what the meta will be like? I've always been pretty bad at figuring out how to sideboard and probably side out the wrong cards in general (not just for this deck). Any help that you could provide would be greatly appreciated. One last thing. I've seen some versions play Grim Tutor and SDT and others skip it entirely. Is it worth playing a combination of these, or just skip them for Preordains?

[wonderPreaux]

Hello, so I'm new to these forums, but I wanted to ask for some advice with this deck, though I do plan on reading most of this thread when I get a chance. I plan on attending GP New Jersey, since I can get the time off and I've never played in a GP before (though I've been to a few SCG Opens with Dredge). I have a Tendrils deck that I've been playing a little, but I don't have a ton of experience outside of my local store that has a very small weekly legacy event, plus I just recently acquired the last of the cards to finish it. What would you feel is the best way to practice for such a large event?

If you, for whatever logistical reason, can't setup some sort of playtesting/practice gauntlet your best bets would be to "goldfish" the deck so you get more comfortable putting together lines and grind out games on cockatrice or w/e so that you feel at-home in the various matchups. In a wide-open and competitive field a proactive strategy like Storm can be effective as you can muscle through diverse fields by being fundamentally more powerful, but you have to be both competent and comfortable trying to run the plays.

How do the new cards from KoT affect you playing this deck (especially Treasure Cruise).

The most notable difference I've run into is with Treasure Cruise, Swiftspear and Dig Through Time just haven't appeared that significantly different/better to me. Treasure Cruise in Tempo/Delver decks is very powerful imo, it warps the paradigm of building up over soft counters and discarding hard counters/Stifles because while you're developing they can now have that fast clock AND/OR cantrip/bolt and shotgun soft counters at you, building to Cruises to bury you in disruption. For decks like Esper, the same scenario exists, but isn't as pronounced as the interactions are less aggressive and their disruption in the form of Meddling Mage or w/e doesn't fill the yard. For the aforementioned effect on the Delver matches, I've gone to siding Empty the Warrens as a way to aggressively combo out quickly instead of getting overwhelmed by trying to grind through counters + Treasure Cruise.

I'll end up having to do most of the testing on my own due to my work schedule, and I would appreciate some help in figuring out how to focus my time effectively so I don't playtest incorrectly or focus on playing the wrong matchups. Also, how should I build a sideboard for an event when I could literally play against anything and I don't have a clue what the meta will be like? I've always been pretty bad at figuring out how to sideboard and probably side out the wrong cards in general (not just for this deck). Any help that you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article...mboarding.html
This is a good intro to sideboarding. The gist of it is that you often want to keep your ratios of mana, lands, cantrips generally the same, unless the matchup skews you a certain way. For example, your ratio of mana accel can decrease against Miracles because the matchup is often so slow, or you can shave a land in combo mirrors because the games can be so short and goldfish-like. Another key concept is that sideboarding should often be like "upgrading" your deck contents, as opposed to significantly changing them. Since Storm is so linear you always have the same plan, you're just finding more efficient ways to do it in the matchup. For example, against hatebear decks you side out Duress (which can't do a lot in matchups where the disruption is creatures) for the "upgrade" of Chain of Vapor (Chain of Vapor is an upgrade in this matchup because it does a thing by removing hatebears so you can combo). As an aside, try not to side out Gitaxian Probe, I get really peeved when people do this because Probe is really only "bad" against burn and is so much more than the "draw a card" effect people who side it out think it is. It's free info, free storm count and free threshold, it's incredible. Regarding the varied field, I'd recommend maining 4 Cabal Therapy if you aren't already, because if you can proficiently use it you can cover a lot more scenarios than you could if your discard suite was geared towards Duress.

For reference, this is the sideboard I use (Bayou and Tropical Island in main, 16 cantrips, no Top/Tutor).
4 Abrupt Decay (Miracles, Chalices, pinch spot removal)
3 Chain of Vapor (Hatebears, Burn, Leylines from Show and Tell, generic removal)
3 Xantid Swarm (Show and Tell, Reanimator, Merfolk, Poison, Miracles)
2 Massacre (Death and Taxes, Stoneblade, UWR Delver, WBx Midrange)
2 Pithing Needle (Miracles, Griselbrand/Sneak Attack decks, Charbelcher, Painter occaisonally BUG decks)
1 Empty the Warrens (Delver/Tempo decks, Burn, Hatebears, sometimes Miracles)

One last thing. I've seen some versions play Grim Tutor and SDT and others skip it entirely. Is it worth playing a combination of these, or just skip them for Preordains?

It depends on your perception of the meta and comfort level with cards like Top. Top does some cool tricks like floating business and sculpting draws, but it's slower and doesn't fill your yard. Grim Tutor is additional business in a deck that's like on threats, but it can be awkwardly expensive in terms of life and mana. The 16 cantrip, no-frills, Adam Prosak/Ari Lax style ANT config is minorly faster as you achieve threshold and dig faster compared to Top and, as the generalist build, will function reasonably well regardless of matchup. However, this generalist style loses the long-term benefits that Top/Grim offer in grindy games.

[JamieW89]

4-1'd a local today, but 3 of those wins were due to opposing errors. Sadly I didn't get to play Miracles, wanted to test Grips.

SB:
3 Decay
2 Grip
1 Top (1 main)
1 Flusterstorm
1 Carpet
2 Swarm
2 Massacre
2 Chain
1 AdN (would have been much better main over EtW)

WBgu Deathblade (No counters, Hymns, Thoughtseizes, Hatebears, Scm): 2-0
Won g1 off etw+therapy on batterskull. He topdecks a Jitte, but fails to drs my Tendrils away (attacks with it instead for jitte counters), finish the game with tendrils for 6.
G2 he has drs into hymn into scm hymn. I win the turn after with discard backup (top was good)

Burn: 2-0
I mull to 6 g1 but have the t1 kill anyways (Land,DR,CR,LED,IT,PiF or something). g2 I kill him t2 because of a good ponder.

BUG Delver: 2-1
I lose g1, but I probably misplayed. I had Therapy,IT,Grim Tutor,DR,Ponder and 2 lands in play or something. He had FoW+U card+blanks. I cast IT to find another Ritual but he forced the IT. If I therapied the FoW and Pondered I might have won in time (not enough life by the time I can win now).
g2 I have some goblin tokens, he keeps finding shamans and has a lilly. With me having 5 tokens, 3 lands and 1 card (9 life), him having 3 drs and lilly (3 life) he decides to -2 lilly and pass. I topdeck the LP to fit my ToA :D (he should have +1'd lilly and passed, blocked to go through 1 and activated three drs twice. With 3 lands and no cards in hand I'd have had no outs).
g3 We end up in turns and on turn-4 I have CR,LED,LP,,AdN and Flusterstorm. I cast stuff and then CR, he dazes, I pay, he flusterstorms, I flusterstorm back. He lets it resolve, despite having mana to pay for copies (which would have drawn the game). AdN with mana floating from 15 gets there.

Shardless: 0-2
I mull to 5 g1, discard his permission and am ready to go off but he's drawn another FoW. I can not win through it.
I keep a weak 6 in g2 (Discard,land,land,3x artifact mana). I dump down a ton of mana, discard his fow and hope for a business spell, which I do not find.

Sneaky Show: 2-1 (split prizes though)
I manage to completely empty his hand and make a 2-turn clock with goblins g1. He draws and casts Sneak Attack, I hit him. He draws intuition for 3 Emrakul, and I'm on 15.
g2 he SnT's a griselbrand but I have Swarm and some discard and leave him with no counters/kill. He hits me, next turn I cast Brainstorm with PiF+CR in hand and a stacked yard. He forces putting him at 7 so I just win.
g3 I play t2 swarm, it resolves. I win.

[Surfinbird]

Today I've been testing against miracles with the xantid+decay+krosan+top side. It worked well, i won about 10 out of 15 games. Tops worked fantastically and krosans did their job too, but i had problems with xantid swarm. It got killed with swords\explosives the 70℅ of the times i played it. In the end, i couldn't rely on it to deal with tops and counterspells. I never lost to counterbalance, but sometimes to my opponent having more counters and my xantids being exiled or destroyed.

We need a way to fight the "floating counter on top", but playing pithing needles would force us to play without tops too, and i've really enjoyed them. Thoughts about that?


And talking about the new KTK cards, i agree to what's been said. These days i've felt that thanks ti Treasure Cruise RUG Delver is able to draw too many hard counters, and sometimes i'm unable to find discard spells for all of them. Do you think we need 1-2 extra discard spells in the sideboard? Is xantid swarm a serious option there?

[wonderPreaux]

Today I've been testing against miracles with the xantid+decay+krosan+top side. It worked well, i won about 10 out of 15 games. Tops worked fantastically and krosans did their job too, but i had problems with xantid swarm. It got killed with swords\explosives the 70℅ of the times i played it. In the end, i couldn't rely on it to deal with tops and counterspells. I never lost to counterbalance, but sometimes to my opponent having more counters and my xantids being exiled or destroyed.

We need a way to fight the "floating counter on top", but playing pithing needles would force us to play without tops too, and i've really enjoyed them. Thoughts about that.


And talking about the new KTK cards, i agree to what's been said. These days i've felt that thanks ti Treasure Cruise RUG Delver is able to draw too many hard counters, and sometimes i'm unable to find discard spells for all of them. Do you think we need 1-2 extra discard spells in the sideboard? Is xantid swarm a serious option there?

Swarm is NOT an option here, these new Cruise lists are often packing 4 bolts and additional spells like forked bolt/chain lightning, your bees would never stick. Additional discard spells, I feel, would only make the problem worse, you spend time playing multiple discard spells instead of comboing, and you'll just give them extra time to resolve cruise or beat you to death. i'd hate to be boarding to 8+ discard spells, open 2+ of them, and then be greeted by t1 Delver, for instance. I think EtW is the card to have here, it lets you go off quickly when they tap out for something, you can play around some counters with it, and flashback Cabal Therapies instead of running extra discard. It also replaces Ad Nauseam against their fast clock and burn spells, while bringing the fight to them so they cant continue to build up cards and keep you held back.

[Surfinbird]

Today I've been testing against miracles with the xantid+decay+krosan+top side. It worked well, i won about 10 out of 15 games. Tops worked fantastically and krosans did their job too, but i had problems with xantid swarm. It got killed with swords\explosives the 70℅ of the times i played it. In the end, i couldn't rely on it to deal with tops and counterspells. I never lost to counterbalance, but sometimes to my opponent having more counters and my xantids being exiled or destroyed.

We need a way to fight the "floating counter on top", but playing pithing needles would force us to play without tops too, and i've really enjoyed them. Thoughts about that?

Baucause of what i've said in this post i'm considering between playing these two diferent sideboards against miracles:

Kai's one: +3 decay +3 xantd +2 krosan +2 top -2 cabal ritual -2 preordain -2 lotus petal -2 cabal theerapy -1 island -1 ponder

- I've liked this sideboard, but had problems to deal with counterspells due to having swarms exiled or destroyed and being running only 5 discard spells post sideboard.

Pithing based strategy: +3 decay +3 pithing needle (+1 krosan) -1 island -1 preordain -2 lotus petal -1 cabal ritual -1 sensei's divning top (- the second preordain)

- Pithing can't be destroyed as easily as xantid is, stops the countertop lock and the floating counter problems. We are not siding out discard spells so we won't have problems to deal with counters (while naming top with pithing they probably will have more problems to find them). Also, we've got more sideboard free slots.

- While it looks pretty good, i find two problems in this strategy: not being able to play tops (were awesome when testing kai's sideboard), and not having xantid swarm to fight show and tell and reaanimator decks.

- I'm not sure if we need the krosan here.


Which one would you play?

[Togores]

So I crushed yet another local tournament with ANT yesterday playing my list with 1 Grim main and following SB:
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Tendrils of Agony
3 Chain of Vapor
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Massacre
2 Xantid Swarm
I wanted to try the Grinding Station board again but in the end I will go back to some Flusterstorms due to our Combometa.

Round 4 Miracles
I was the only one with 9 points and had to play against Miracles. My opponent made jokes about beating 2 ANT players beforehand during the tournament and I retorted: "They were only adepts, you know. They were the ones you have to beat in order to move on to the Gym Leader (in Pokemon) and I am the Gym Leader. If you beat me, you get the Tendrils medal." I won the first game with AdN via Cabal Ritual which quickly had threshold. "Your first Pokemon just fainted. Choose your next." He chose wisely and after a long game where I had 4 Goblins and he Clique and two Counterbalances he killed me with 4 4/4 Angels. Just as we wanted to start the third game the time was over, I drew my 7 > mulligan into a shaky/slow hand into draw.
1:1 and no Tendrily medal for him
3-0-1 1st place

Congrats on the great result.

How you sided on this last matchup vs miracles?


I wanted to test the grips in this weekend monthly legacy league, but I had a birthday on saturday and I knew I would have from 0-2 hours of sleep (ended having 0). I sleved up a sneak and show but ended up too destroyed and ppl where to oversided. But the true is I didnt enjoyed the deck. I missed all the cool decisions that ant makes me do. And all the play and mindtricks you can do with it.


We have to see whats better at the end, it its the no tops and pithing or yes to tops and grip. Time will say.

At least I have enjoyed tops a lot since months.

[CabalTherapy]

Congrats on the great result.

How you sided on this last matchup vs miracles?


I wanted to test the grips in this weekend monthly legacy league, but I had a birthday on saturday and I knew I would have from 0-2 hours of sleep (ended having 0). I sleved up a sneak and show but ended up too destroyed and ppl where to oversided. But the true is I didnt enjoyed the deck. I missed all the cool decisions that ant makes me do. And all the play and mindtricks you can do with it.


We have to see whats better at the end, it its the no tops and pithing or yes to tops and grip. Time will say.

At least I have enjoyed tops a lot since months.

Thanks.

I boarded in like 10 cards: +2 ToA, +3 Decay, +2 Tops, +2 Swarms, +1 EtW; -1 Island, -2 Preordain, -1 Probe, -1 Ad Nauseam, -1 Petals, -2 LEDs, -1 Duress, -1 CT (not 100% sure but something like this)
I have to admit that after I won the first game, I was like "If I cannot win the second game (he boards heavy) then I won't let him win it" meaning that I went his threads rather than developing my plan (also stuck on 2 lands). I decayed his Ethersworn Canonist for example or "countered" his Clique with 4 Goblins.
The SB will be subject to changes since I want to test other cards like Krosan Grip, City of Solitude and other stuff. And I have to say that the 3 Tendrils look better on paper than they really were against Miracles but, who cares, it was just one round against them with this SB and I didn't lose, which was the main aim in this particular situation.

[JamieW89]

Because of the lengthy discussions in the "TPS thread"* it might be worth it to discuss Gifts Ungiven as 5th and possibly 6th Infernal Tutor in this deck using its current skeleton without adding extra cards like Reforge the Soul.

If we consider 15 lands, 16 mana, 12 cantrips incl Probe, 4 Tutor, 1 ToA, 1 PiF, 6 Discard as fixed we have 5 flex slots left in the deck. 4-5 of these are filled with business spells & cantrips and there sometimes is a 7th protection spell. The options for the extra business/cantrips slots currently are: (1) Preordain (up to 4), (2) Grim Tutor (up to 2), (3) Lim-Dul's Vault (up to 2), (4) Ad Nauseam (#1 and rarely #2), (5) Empty the Warrens, (6) Past in Flames #2.
The previously mentioned thread brings forth Gifts Ungiven as an additional option for these slots and I feel it warrants testing in the proper frame. The idea is that you mainly use Gifts to go for a PiF kill, and sometimes use it for setup.

A quick glance gives me this impression: (please correct this if there are better options)

Gifts for PiF: 6URB (9), 4+ Spells cast, 1+ Life.
Have 3U + 3R + B and 4 spells played this turn.
Gifts for IT+PiF+DR+CR, float 3R+B
Get IT+PiF, cast PiF, float B
Flash back DR, CR (threshed) and cast IT from hand into ToA.

Grim Tutor for PiF: 4RBBB (8), ~3+ spells cast, 7+ Life.
Have BB1+3R+B,
Cast Grim Tutor for PiF, float 3RB
Cast PiF, float B
Flashback Rituals and Grim Tutor for ToA

Summarized:
Gifts costs a mana more (9 instead of 8).
GT can be more expensive depending on the amount of rituals available post-PiF (just DR and CR with thresh makes it already cost an extra mana)
Gifts has less problems regarding the anti-synergy of LED and PiF since you tutor up two rituals to flashback.
Gifts costs 3 or 6 life less.
Gifts becomes cheaper with a good graveyard (IT in the GY makes Gifts cost 7 mana, where GT is still 8)
Gifts might require more cards already in the yard, as CR almost always needs to be threshed.
GT finds any card in set-up, and is one cheaper as a setup spell.
Gifts has some setup applications (e.g. finding Duress/Therapy/Thoughtseize/X), finding you two cards.
Gifts is one more damage for Ad Nauseam, while GT costs 3 life to cast after Ad Nauseam. -> Might want to play MD Empty if you go for Gifts.
Snapcaster Mage might be worth testing as well if you do include Gifts.
Gifts makes the deck even more graveyard-reliant, but you can side them out and go for Ad Nauseam/Empty postboard if required.

Has anyone tested such a list? For example filling the 5 flex slots with: (1) Empty the Warrens, (2) Gifts Ungiven, (3) Gifts Ungiven/Top/Preordain, (4) 7th discard spell, probably the 1st Thoughtseize and (5) Top/Preordain/SCM?

*See: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...660-Legacy-TPS

[Tom T]

Because of the lengthy discussions in the "TPS thread"* it might be worth it to discuss Gifts Ungiven as 5th and possibly 6th Infernal Tutor in this deck using its current skeleton without adding extra cards like Reforge the Soul.

If we consider 15 lands, 16 mana, 12 cantrips incl Probe, 4 Tutor, 1 ToA, 1 PiF, 6 Discard as fixed we have 5 flex slots left in the deck. 4-5 of these are filled with business spells & cantrips and there sometimes is a 7th protection spell. The options for the extra business/cantrips slots currently are: (1) Preordain (up to 4), (2) Grim Tutor (up to 2), (3) Lim-Dul's Vault (up to 2), (4) Ad Nauseam (#1 and rarely #2), (5) Empty the Warrens, (6) Past in Flames #2.
The previously mentioned thread brings forth Gifts Ungiven as an additional option for these slots and I feel it warrants testing in the proper frame. The idea is that you mainly use Gifts to go for a PiF kill, and sometimes use it for setup.

A quick glance gives me this impression: (please correct this if there are better options)

Gifts for PiF: 6URB (9), 4+ Spells cast, 1+ Life.
Have 3U + 3R + B and 4 spells played this turn.
Gifts for IT+PiF+DR+CR, float 3R+B
Get IT+PiF, cast PiF, float B
Flash back DR, CR (threshed) and cast IT from hand into ToA.

Grim Tutor for PiF: 4RBBB (8), ~3+ spells cast, 7+ Life.
Have BB1+3R+B,
Cast Grim Tutor for PiF, float 3RB
Cast PiF, float B
Flashback Rituals and Grim Tutor for ToA

Summarized:
Gifts costs a mana more (9 instead of 8).
GT can be more expensive depending on the amount of rituals available post-PiF (just DR and CR with thresh makes it already cost an extra mana)
Gifts has less problems regarding the anti-synergy of LED and PiF since you tutor up two rituals to flashback.
Gifts costs 3 or 6 life less.
Gifts becomes cheaper with a good graveyard (IT in the GY makes Gifts cost 7 mana, where GT is still 8)
Gifts might require more cards already in the yard, as CR almost always needs to be threshed.
GT finds any card in set-up, and is one cheaper as a setup spell.
Gifts has some setup applications (e.g. finding Duress/Therapy/Thoughtseize/X), finding you two cards.
Gifts is one more damage for Ad Nauseam, while GT costs 3 life to cast after Ad Nauseam. -> Might want to play MD Empty if you go for Gifts.
Snapcaster Mage might be worth testing as well if you do include Gifts.
Gifts makes the deck even more graveyard-reliant, but you can side them out and go for Ad Nauseam/Empty postboard if required.

Has anyone tested such a list? For example filling the 5 flex slots with: (1) Empty the Warrens, (2) Gifts Ungiven, (3) Gifts Ungiven/Top/Preordain, (4) 7th discard spell, probably the 1st Thoughtseize and (5) Top/Preordain/SCM?

*See: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...660-Legacy-TPS

What about Intuition? It's the same cost as Grim Tutor and instant. It seems better than Gifts but it's not as versatile as Grim Tutor (I guess).

[Sloshthedark]

What about Intuition? It's the same cost as Grim Tutor and instant. It seems better than Gifts but it's not as versatile as Grim Tutor (I guess).

both cards suffer from the same fact of being U - therefore slower and more vulnerable ... I'm not proficient in Gift Piles to evaluate the idea in depth (better then intuition? better playing around DRS scenarios? How mana efficient is a pile post PIF - Gifts as a topdecked Tutor?, Tutorchaining with Gifts?) but without other changes in the deck I think achieving UBR will be a major problem +deck will get much more complicated, aside more fun/pain I can't easily see benefits running the card, so I'm skeptical

there is a lot of unexplored territory from Cunning Wish to Intuition, PiF, Brainfreeze yourself abominations in style of Caleb Durward (UBR also the one of the chokepoints) that might now feature Treasure Cruise... and Gifts fit in that range imo, It might be a beginning of a new interesting tier 2 deck the "new TPS" thread kind of tries to find but I don't think it makes ANT more resilient or faster, which are 2 things to focus on, even BR is awkward in TES sometimes why make it UBR

[Tav]

Playing in the scg open this weekend. Tentative list is what I would consider the "standard" main board with top and a sideboard of
3 abrupt decay
3 xantid swarm
2 krosan grip
2 chain of vapor
2 dread of night
1 senseis divining top
1 massacre
1 karakas

I am like 70% sure I'll be playing with grips this weekend (also depending on me getting a bayou for Sunday), but I'm definitely going to do some testing on Friday once I'm all done with finals. Specifically I need to figure out a) swarms or not against miracles (I think I'm leaning no but we will see) and b) is only having an extra top and maybe a chain or two going to be good enough against bug delver post board.

I'm going to miss playing with young peezy and if testing doesn't go well I will definitely default back to putting him in my sideboard, but overall I think the changes are a good progression for the deck.

[apple713]

what are the top 3 cards you do not want to see in play against you? Are some worse than others?

ethersworn canonist?
cotv?
trinisphere?
thalia?
sphere of resistance?

maybe others?

[JanoschEausH]

what are the top 3 cards you do not want to see in play against you? Are some worse than others?

ethersworn canonist?
cotv?
trinisphere?
thalia?
sphere of resistance?

maybe others?

Well, for me it's the combination of disruption, that's the problem. Only Hatebears is easy to handle, but if your opponent also packs Mindbreak Trap or discard, it's getting exponentially harder. In terms of permanent-only hate, I would say, that maybe Chalice and Trinisphere are the worst to play against. Then comes Ethersworn Canonist, but that's just my opinion.

[CabalTherapy]

what are the top 3 cards you do not want to see in play against you? Are some worse than others?

ethersworn canonist?
cotv?
trinisphere?
thalia?
sphere of resistance?

maybe others?

In play: Certainly Counterbalance/Top in game 1 and of course random stuff like 1off Canonist/Teeg luckily drawn by the opponent. As far as speaking about which cards I don't want to see against me, Hymn to Tourach, would be always in the top 3.

ANT is flexible enough to deal with everything postboard and if the opponent gives me the chance to look for answers (CoV, Decay, discard spell, whathaveyou...) everything is fine. ANT can play around Chalice on 0 or 1 because of Cabal Ritual/Infernal being cc2, and the other spells are simply countered and fill the graveyard.

But of course, I hate all of the above mentioned cards.


EDIT about TPS: I doubt that it is an improvement due to several factors which were already stated by some people. I didn't want to interfere in the discussion because of that, but maybe I will write down my thoughts later.

[Sloshthedark]

what are the top 3 cards you do not want to see in play against you? Are some worse than others?

ethersworn canonist?
cotv?
trinisphere?
thalia?
sphere of resistance?

maybe others?

G1

Teeg, Meddling Mage (ToA) - can't win
Cannonist, Nether Void - win 1 in 1000
Trinisphere - win 1 in 100
Thalia, Sphere win 1 in 5
Golem win 1 in 3
CotV, CB alone - better than 50%
...other stuff

for +/- standard lists, obv. taxing stuff get's better when you expect it, EtW bypass everything to some extent except Teeg

G2
I'm really afraid of discard+Gy hate, Extirpate especially, the rest can be dealt with (AD or CoV)