Right now Wastelands are really hard to find at tournaments, and with Crop and Needle they are no real problem. Stifle can be nasty, but isn't very popular as well. I often love to see Blood Moon game two, because it slows opponents down as well. Buys enough time to deploy 2-3 Cloudposts before Krosan Grip out of the SB opens the Gate to wonderland :-) PoP is a huge problem and difficult to deal with, that's right. Counters are your friends here.Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Let's see some decklists! what did everyone run at the GP?
Primeval Titan generally wins you the game when it hits, or at least facilitates establishing supreme inevitability that will cause you to win unless your opponent has the stone cold nuts.
As for the list, this is the generic list I like. It is slightly off, but is a great blank palette for working with while you're trying to learn the deck. Once you're comfortable with that list, you can move away from the 4-ofs to 3 Top, 3 Crop, 3 Repeal and a slightly modified landbase to gear the deck in another direction that you like. If you want an example of a more modified list, I always keep my current list in my signature and actually updated it earlier today.
EDIT: This is the list I played.
I've been thinking of trying Life from the Loam as a way to build advantage with Zuran Orb, and it has additional utility of being able to put Crop Rotation targets back in your deck when paired with Eldrazi.
Last edited by winglerw28; 11-18-2014 at 12:27 PM.
Gp list i ran, 11-4 124th
[cards]// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [IA] Island
1 [IA] forest
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [R] Bayou
1 [R] Underground Sea
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [AVR] cavern of souls
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the infinite gyre
1 [5DN] trinket mage
// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [GP] Repeal
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [AQ] Candelabra of tawnos
2 [US] Show and Tell
2 [SoK] Pithing Needle
1 [5DN] Engineered explosives
2 [ODY] moment's peace
1 [CMD] Flusterstorm
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 2 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 1 [RTR] Golgari Charm
SB: 4 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [ZEN] Mindbreak trap
I cut the garden and oracle for this event due to drop in bug delver to make room for black splash, i wanted to be better prepared for elves. didnt see any elves but it did work for infect. the splash didnt bite me in the ass the entire event. being able to add two more black sources and keep both basics is why i guess. if i could run it back, i would run 4 moments peace in the 75 and a 4th repeal
rounds went
1 bye
2 bye
3 uwr delver W
4 infect W
5 ur delver W
6 sneak and show L
7 maverick W
8 miracles W
9 uwr delver W
10 dead guy ale or junk, not sure but i got wrecked L
11 uwr delver L
12 burn with cruise W
13 sneak and show L
14 uwr delver W
15 Ur delver with eidilon and clique W
i was really unhappy lossing twice to sneak and show, I think the matchup is great for this deck
i also listed my archtype as sultai midrange, in the meta breakdown it only list 1 "locus ramp" deck
will edit later, im at work
Just out of curiosity, was the omission of tabernacle just because you didn't own one, or did you decide not to include it?
GP List I ran with...5-3 on the day. :-/
Artifact (2)
2x Candelabra of Tawnos
Instant (16)
4x Brainstorm
3x Chain of Vapor
3x Crop Rotation
3x Force of Will
3x Repeal
Sorcery (9)
4x Ponder
2x Show and Tell
3x Treasure Cruise
Creature (6)
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4x Primeval Titan
Land (27)
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
2x Flooded Strand
1x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Island
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Scalding Tarn
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4x Tropical Island
1x Vesuva
*Sideboard*
3x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Chill
2x Elephant Grass
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Flusterstorm
1x Show and Tell
1x Surgical Extraction
2x Swan Song
Matchups
1 - Bye Win 2-0
2 - Bye Win 2-0
3 - 4Color Delver Loose 0-2
G1: On the play I repealed a DRS on turn 2 to slow him down. He then wastelands my 1 colored source and I can no longer play any of the 8 colored spells I draw.
G2: I get 3x wastelanded in this game. I EE to destroy 2 Deathrites. Utlimately, I end up with 5 mana, without any posts. I crop rotation for Cavern, leaving me with 5 mana. I need to draw any mana producing land to push to game 3. The draw...Eye of Ugin.**Begin Car Moving Intermission**4 - Miracles 2-0
5 - UR Delver 2-0
6 - UR Delver 1-2
Unlike my last opponent this round my delver play had the stone cold nuts.7 - MUD 2-1
G1: 2x Monastery swiftspears were 8/9's attacking. I retrieve glacial chasm. When glacial chasm expires I'm at 11 after lifegain with a primetime in play. I get triple lightning bolted and attacked for exactsies.
G2: I gum up the board with elephant grasses, resolve primetime and grind him to a halt.
G3: He draws triple monastery swiftspears. I have 2 life, 6 mana and a primetime. He has two in hand, FoW and blue card. I had to go for it, I was dead on board.
G1: Blightsteel shows up. I crop rotation for glacial chasm. Take 0 infect. Hardcast Kozilek & Repeal Blightsteel.8- Meathooks? 1-2
G2: I mulligan to 6 and have FoW, blue card, surgical extraction, ponder and lands. I FoW metaworker and surgical it. I see Forgemaster, Forgemaster & Metamorph. I draw nothing & eventually get blightsteeled.
G3: I lead off with a ponder, opponent plays cloudpost, I play cloudpost, opponent plays cloudpost, I play cloudpost. Ponder rearranged my deck to have Candelabra and Kozilek. I cast turn 3 Kozilek. Opponent instantly conceeds.
**This is the most fun (for both of us) match of the day. **
G1: My opponent goes turn 1 Tundra, Aether Vial. I thought he was on some D&T brew. He then plays mutavault turn 2. Plays sliver lord, vials in crystaline. I die to mutavaults lords. He has precisely enough lands in play that I can't even tabernacle him for a dude. I have 1 turn, do my candlestick bounce shenanigans and end up with 13 mana, not 15. Doh!
G2: He doesn't have Vial, I resolve primetime into Emrakul.
G3: He goes turn 1 aethervial. I'm holding on for dear life and 2 life, I get to 6 mana with cavern and resolve primetime. Get glimerpost, chasm, gain three. His turn he ticks up aethervial to 3. With all my friends watching, he vials in necrotic sliver, kills chasms and his guys eat me.
Overall I had a blast, wish I would have met more of you...but with 4000+ people its hard to find anyone! Moving forward, I'm cutting the chill. I want to get the trinketmage + tops, maps & 1 EE maindeck. Time to start tuning some more!
Too bad you ended not running so well! Looking at your list i have some questions:GP List I ran with...5-3 on the day. :-/
Artifact (2)
2x Candelabra of Tawnos
Instant (16)
4x Brainstorm
3x Chain of Vapor
3x Crop Rotation
3x Force of Will
3x Repeal
Sorcery (9)
4x Ponder
2x Show and Tell
3x Treasure Cruise
Creature (6)
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4x Primeval Titan
Land (27)
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
2x Flooded Strand
1x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Island
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Scalding Tarn
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4x Tropical Island
1x Vesuva
*Sideboard*
3x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Chill
2x Elephant Grass
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Flusterstorm
1x Show and Tell
1x Surgical Extraction
2x Swan Song
Overall I had a blast, wish I would have met more of you...but with 4000+ people its hard to find anyone! Moving forward, I'm cutting the chill. I want to get the trinketmage + tops, maps & 1 EE maindeck. Time to start tuning some more!
Why Chain of Vapor? It seems to me you do not have enough cheap permanents to be bounced with gain in response to an opponent's wasteland, no SDT for card advantage (anyway, i have to say i usually strongly dislike that line of play because it exposes your already resolved precious artifacts to counterspells again). Wouldn't it be better to have Moment's Peace instead?
I found that i want Show & Tell in almost every game that is not Sneak and Show and Omnitell. How often have you brought in the third copy?
Was card advantage vs multiple tutorage a real thing for you? I mean: you dropped the specific/re-usable tutor package (Map, Trinket, SDT, low Crop rotation count) in order to have access to one-shot digging (Treasure Cruise and Ponder). Do you think this improved the deck? I'm asking this because i'd like to find a blend between the 2 lines that could increase the flexibility of this deck.
Last but not least: did you miss Bojuka Bog maindeck?
Man, you lived such a crazy day. OMG !!!
When I was playing my Sliver brew I was hoping I could get this line of play...
Chain of Vapor is mainly used as a tempo card. The only scenario where it's used in this deck is to chain of vapor a candlestick for acceleration. Also, since I'm maindecking FoW in this build, I need to keep my blue card count at least 18 cards. I personally think its the weakest card in the deck...until you chain of vapor a 8/9 monastery swiftspear!
Remarkably a lot. I tend to bring it in against all midrange and aggressive decks. At one point I was running three maindeck, but the problem is I kept drawing them in multiples.
I think the blend between the two is the better. I just didn't have time to blend the two in the last week before the GP. Running 4 ponders, I draw them A LOT. Likewise, I always seem to draw SDTs in multiples, which isn't a good thing. When I blend the two, I will also have to shave Force of Will.
Not really. I haven't played against dredge in months. I bring it in against reanimator/goyf/lands decks, but I don't think it warrants maindecking in my metagame.
Current list, per a request from a fellow player. I will write up a Gp tournament report with a very similar list later.
// Lands
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [LRW] Island (1)
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
// Creatures
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [C14] Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 [FD] Trinket Mage
// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [GP] Repeal
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [US] Show and Tell
3 [KTK] Treasure Cruise
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [C13] Bane of Progress
SB: 1 [IA] Zuran Orb
SB: 1 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
My list is quite similar, at least main deck :
-1 Island, +1 Forest
-1 Kozilek, +1 Ulamog
-1 Titania - 1 Expedition Map, +2 Needles
-2 Treasure Cruise, +1 Crop Rotation +1 SnT
-2 Engineered Explosives, +2 Moment's Peace
Ok, after writing differences down the list is more different
I tried Titania a few games, but she didn't really help. What is your experience? Guess I will cut 1 Needle and 1 Crop for 2 EE, since Wastelands are no big problem atm. Played Zuran Orb in SB as well, boarded it in against UR Delver, and opponent played Null Rod
Played a small 4 round tournament with 26 players yesterday. Ended 2-1-1 and was not that happy. But I wanted to test Green Suns Zenith. Still not sure about this...looks great for sideboard choices. Maybe when Treasure Cruise gets banned...
// Lands
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [M14] Island (3)
2 [KTK] Forest (1)
2 [U] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
// Creatures
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 [ZEN] Oracle of Mul Daya
// Spells
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [GP] Repeal
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [US] Show and Tell
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [U] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [MR] Oblivion Stone
SB: 2 [DS] Sundering Titan
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [M13] Thragtusk
Played against URB Delves (2-1), Lands (1-1), URB Delver (0-2) and Miracles (2-0), 5-4 overall. Nothing special...usually you win the fair matchups. Delver beat me with turn 1 Stifle Misty, Turn 2 Delver, Daze, Turn 3 Delver Daze...
So out of curiosity, what the heck do you bring in bane of progress against?
With that many sorcery I wonder how well you would do with Boseiju. Did you just get countered out of everything or ?
I know you didn't ask me specifically, but I can answer this since I asked him the same thing. It can come in against things like Sneak and Omni, is another way to get rid of random hate pieces like a Chalice of the Void on one, and can also lead to interesting tricks against someone running a Rest in Peace/Helm of Obedience combo. Rock actually has a pretty hilarious story on that if he cares to share it.
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
A few posts ago someone played with a little black splash. Has anyone tried this, too? Just wondering about it... Would enable sweepers like Pernicious Deed or Toxic Deluge, and of course what the person already mentioned : Engineered Plague.
Tonight I'm goona try and brew up my own thing. Go heavy on control with stifle and fow... I'll let you know how it goes after some play testing.
So, after playing this deck quite a bit on MTGO, I feel like the match-up against any red deck is bad. We are just too slow.
Then I caught Gerard Fabiano's article on SCG today about the Angel Prison deck and was inspired. Instead of going for speed, has anyone tried to play this as a prison-style deck with things like chalice, 3-sphere, etc?
If it's been tried and doesn't work, fine. Please let me know. Otherwise, I started working on a list and will try it out. It just seems like if we can slow the game way down and have time to build our gameplan, then our big spells way out-trump anything our opponent is trying to do. This style also makes our fast combo match-ups way better. Maybe this is a totally different deck style on another thread. Again, if so let me know and I'll shut up. Just wondering if people have tried this in the past.
This may sound like a joke (and it is kinda), but yes - its called MUD.
BBB
Yes, people have tried that. The issue with the prison route is that our usual post ramp is a tad too slow at efficiently establishing chalices and trinispheres, cards which generally require City of Traitors/Ancient Tomb to be at their most effective. Slotting these into our decklist significantly impacts the amount of colored mana sources we can run, which makes Primeval Titan a bit suspect. Chalice of the Void as a main gameplan against most of the field also makes one drops more or less unplayable in our deck, ripping out the filtering and land tutor engine this deck uses, which in turn makes the Eldrazi endgame a lot less attractive. In short, if you want to play a prison deck with cloudposts that is fundamentally incompatible with what the decklists in this thread are trying to accomplish. The deckstyle you might be looking for is represented over in the MUD topic, as Chalice of the Void + Cloudpost essentially push you into the mono brown or very light colored territory to be effective at all.
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