Well, it is the same situation of having a trop,eye and 3 posts, compared to karakas, eye and 3 posts.Originally Posted by J-Funk
I really like apple's idea of 4 NO and 4 GSZ's. Just not a fan of chalice in this deck. The only decks I have lost to of late are either U/R delver, swiftspear decks, and Lam Phan. I actually took game 1 from him at a local. Game two went something like turn 2 waste your could post and surgical it your next draw step. Then either counter or stifle or counter anything remotely relevant.
I would suggest a G/b deck with 4 veteran explorers and 4 cabal therapies. The other option then a nicfit package would be DRS and lots of hand hate? But were is the Boseju it seems like a great option?
I know it means you lose all that flexibility, and draw that blue provides.
2 forest
2 swamp
2 arbor dryad
4 verdant catabombs
2 bayou
4 cloud post
4 glimmer post
2 vesuva
1 karakas
1 eye of ugin
1 glacial chasm
1 cavern of souls
2 more fetch
1 Bog
4 cabal therapy
3 abrupt decay
2 pernicious deed
4 crop rotation
4 sensei's divining top
4 crop rotation
3 Expidition map
4 veteran explorer
4 primeval titan
1 ruric thar
1 emrakul, the aeons torn
1 projenetalia
Ideas?
I also like the idea of Gaea's Vengeance in the board.
even if you dont want chalice in the deck, which i think is a mistake because it turns off 40% of the field, you can still run GSZ NO package. GSZ provides amazing flexibility. early its mana accel, late it a prime time. you really can't lose. somewhere in between you can throw a utility creature in like courser of kruphix to block / buy turns. I'm a little confused too, you said u like the idea but didn't include either in your list.
Play 4 Card Blind!
Currently Playing
Legacy: Dark Depths
EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid
Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
why cards are so expensive...hoarders
Sorry for any confusion, I meant I really like the 4x GSZ, and NO package. I have always been a huge fan of nicfit and played a ton of it in the past which is why one would need to drop the chalice package for it. That and the booze, the wife and kidlet are away, so the blood in my alcohol steam may be muddling things. Also nothing says love like therapings thing out of peoples hand and extirpating it.
So I was unoriginal and copied Jfunk's SCG list to play at the legacy challenge today at GP Baltimore. I Ended up splitting in the finals.
Round 1 against jeskai blade
Hard cast Emrakul both games. Take all the turns. Win 2-0
Round 2 death and taxes.
Eventually stabilize and cast eldrazis, win 2-0.
Round 3 death and taxes (pair down)
Win game 1, die in game 2. Game three, I start with island, tropical island, top, teferri's response. I fail to find my third land and essentially am top locked. I waited for the port to get activated and kapow! Killed a land and drew out of top lock. Unfortunately, I was at 1 life, play prime time into chasm and glimmer post. Ultimately die the turn before I could cast an eldrazi. Loose 1-2
Round 4 4-color Jund (pair up, ID prize split)
Win game 1 pretty easily.
Game 2, I get thoughtseized, into hymn to tourach, into wasteland, into surgical extraction on cloud post. Followed up by nullrod. There wasn't a lot for me to do after that.
Game 3, I lead with trop into cloudpost. He goes to wasteland me, I respond with crop rotation, he responds with a surgical on the cloudpost. He get stuck on 2 land and two deathrites. I tutor up explosives and get him stuck on lands. He eventually jams a choke with three of my tropical islands tapped. Since I have 0 cloudposts, I just play every glimmer post/Vesuva I draw to gain life. I continue to make land drops, until I have 12 mana including karakas. I play ulamog, tapping karakas to leave an island untapped. I destroy his sylvan library and then he draws swords to Plowshares for ulamog. (I should have left karakas untapped). I then draw candelabra, play it, count my lands and its 16 with a karakas. Use candelabra to untap choked islands. I hardcast Emrakul with karakas untapped. Who needs cloudposts? :-D. I checked afterwards, and I played every mana producing land in deck.
Insane. On a side note Tabernacle prices are off the charts. I can't even find Italian versions for less than 400. Side effect of ur delver maybe?
side effect of it being the most usable legends card that is not banned in legacy (see mana drain)
Play 4 Card Blind!
Currently Playing
Legacy: Dark Depths
EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid
Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
why cards are so expensive...hoarders
Undoubtely yes, Lands.deck is on the rise again and Tabernacle is really good against UR and tempo decks. I've recently switched it to the maindeck and I'm almost always happy to draw it. It's a nice tutor target too.
I'm not sure, this might be a terrible idea but I'm going to test this list:
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Dark Depths
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Eye of Ugin
4x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
1x Misty Rainforest
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1x Thespian's Stage
2x Vesuva
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
3x Crop Rotation
2x Exploration
3x Ancient Stirrings
4x Explore
3x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Life from the Loam
1x Candelabra of Tawnos
3x Expedition Map
2x Pithing Needle
3x Sensei's Divining Top
No sideboard yet, that will come soon. Probably some mix of Chalice of the Void, Sphere of Resistance, Moment's Peace, Grafdigger's Cage, I dunno what else.
I'm posting here my latest list, which i tested a bit on Cockatrice and i found really satisfactory:
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Forest
1x Island
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Tropical Island
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2x Vesuva
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
4x Primeval Titan
2x Trinket Mage
3x Crop Rotation
3x Show and Tell
4x Brainstorm
4x Repeal
2x Moment's Peace
1x Candelabra of Tawnos
3x Expedition Map
2x Pithing Needle
3x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Engineered Explosives
SIDEBOARD
1x Dark Depths
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Meekstone
2x Venser, Shaper Savant
3x Force of Will
2x Swansong
3x Flusterstorm
2x Chalice of the Void
I find this very well rounded to face even niche decks and i said above Tabernacle really earned its spot. If you're asking for what the sb is, here are some quick explanations:
DD combo: against Jund/BUG, i use it like a some sort of B or C plan to catch them off guard. They run few to none instant edict effects, so going eot into Marit Lage is huge against them even when you're under a ticking Liliana
Meekstone: tutorable with Trinket mage, it's very powerful against BUG/RUG-ish decks relying on Delver, TNN and Tarmo to win. With this stone into play all their creatures look like Lightning Elementals. Oh, it's pretty good against Reanimator too.
Venser: mainly here for helping against Omnitell and sometimes Sneak and Show and Reanimator, i bring them in every time i'm facing a slow, controlling deck, so UW Miracles and BUG Walkers too.
Counterspells: against combo decks and Burn.
Chalice of the Void: again against combo decks and Burn, i'm not sure if it's the case to bring them in against UR delver as well. I tried a bit and sometimes they were awesome (like a T2 chalice @1) and sometimes horrible (drawn while i was already dying). What do you think?
So with Meekstone in play, how do you plan to win? I can see scenarios where you play meekstone to lock down there board, don't draw karakas, swing with an eldrazi and have it just chilling in play tapped. I guess there is always repeal. I also suspect that people can play games to get tarmogoyf to shrink to a 2/3, untap and regrow to something slightly larger. Pretty sure this requires deathrites/treasure cruises however.
I think against UR delver, chalice is fine on the play. Since theres 0 soul lands in the deck, it's impossible to drop a turn 1 chalice. On the play, the delver deck with SB out all Daze's so there's a higher probability it will stick. My only issue is typically its just as bad for you as it is for them. Your list has 19-20 1 drops. On the draw, there's a high chance that they have already played a delver before you can deploy chalice.
Speaking of burn, is chalice on X=2 just as good (if not better) against them as X=1? It stops edilion, flameright, price of progress and smash to smithereens. With chalice on 2, our deck is pretty much unaffected. This also is assuming your alive long enough to cast it for 2 lol!
With an early Meekstone in play, you almost always win. Usually the eldrazi attack is anticipated by a titan attack that will provide you all the tools you need to end the game properly. If you have the lands to get Emrakul in play and swing during the extra turn, this means you'll probably also have the amount of mana sufficient to search for Ulamog and nuke the Meekstone or more probably their last threat, wait until next turn and swing with Ulamog ftw. It has never been a problem until now.
For the 2/3 Tarmogoyf issue, i'd be happy to face 2 damage per turn instead of the usual 4 or 5 that creature usually presents. If they opt to go for this route they'll have to keep many cards rotting in their hands and it's not always easy to control our grave and their grave at the same time.
Well, it's true that is bad for us, but it doesn't shut down any of our winning conditions, while it almost completely annihilate their deck. But of course i see your point, probably it's not worth sideboarding it on the draw.
I usually play Chalice@2 against burn, yes. Maybe I've been lucky, but i've never had such big problems against that deck until now.
Has anyone tried Amulet of Vigor as a part of the trinket mage toolbox? I haven't had the time to play with it, but I'm curious to know if anyone else has any thoughts/experiences with the card. With a candelabra and amulet, you could set up some pretty explosive turns with cavern of souls into uncounterable prime time.
Seems more combo-y and cute than control, but admittedly with the ticket mage already there it might be worth a 1 of. There have been a lot of games I've lost but I've only been 1 turn short of an emrakul or other wincon
I tried it long ago, and in my honest opinion its use is narrow. It's great with Titan triggers (there's an entire archetype in Modern around it), and if dropped before the first or second Cloudpost. Oterh times, it's just redundant. It could be worth a reinvestigation, but what I will say is that two's generally a better poor mans Candelabra than Magus of the Candelabra because it doesn't disrupt tempo (but that doesn't mean much because there is no replacement for Candelabra).
"Let go your earthly tether. Enter the void, empty, and become wind."
This. We're playing a ramp deck with high value threats, but given the speed of the current meta, there's a lot of games where we just don't get there. Even with the best stall cards available to us (tabernacle, chasm) we still have games where we die a turn before we're able to set up. A tutorable toolkit card that turns on vesuva, cloudpost, and primeval titan a turn sooner feels like it could snag us a lot of games that we couldn't have won before.
I don't know, if you have the time to Trinket Mage for the Amulet, play it, have neither be countered and then still profit off the untap effect before you die I have a hunch you weren't under that extreme of a pressure situation to begin with. Sure, there are situations where it would come in quite handy, and there may even be a few where it is the only reasonable path to victory. I'm afraid however that it is just going to be a massive dud when you naturally draw it most of the times. In a lot of spots where getting to untap your CIPT lands a candelabra is simply doing a better job. I simply can't think of many cases where you tap out (or nearly tap out) for a Titan where having the lands enter untapped would matter a lot. The deck already plays a large amount of bullets you never really actually want to draw naturally, I see no reason to add another one to the list.
In unrelated news, I've come to love Coiling Oracle as a GSZ target. It's like an Explore that can also block, and it fills the midgame gap of GSZ not doing much until you can cast it for x=6 (or sometimes 5) very well. Also been toying around with Life from the Loam a bit recently, but am uncertain how good it actually is. You can do some fun things with Loam and Top though. Exploration hasn't been testing well for me, even at 28 lands in the deck it just seemed to have a very poor average case and only ever seems to be a good turn 1 play.
So my losing streak against miracles continues. Ever hear of a card called ruination? Got utterly wrecked by it yesterday. It's pretty much an auto lose to us
Gotta play that crucible tech. But yeah ruination is a beating. I know Joe thought about playing it to improve his 12 post/etc matchup but losing a sideboard slot hurts their other matchups enough that he ended up not playing it.
Glacial Chasm question: is there a way I can upkeep crop rotate any land, get vesuva, copy the chasm, sacrifice the original chasm and not have to pay life for the first chasm's upkeep cost?
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