[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[uncletiggy]

Im partial to the arena foils something about earning them as a little kid opposed to buying them makes them alittle more special. Zero foils is hella classy tho.

[jbone2016]

I still think those Portal basics were cooler

Which portal? I have a bunch of P3K basics I don't use. I'm partial to my FBB revised-like basics.

[sdematt]

Which portal? I have a bunch of P3K basics I don't use. I'm partial to my FBB revised-like basics.

I was using Portal 1 as a substitute:

http://magiccards.info/po/en/205.html

http://magiccards.info/po/en/218.html

http://magiccards.info/po/en/221.html

Portal anything is usually better. See:

http://magiccards.info/po/de/167.html

http://magiccards.info/po/de/148.html

-Matt

[maharis]

I love Summer basics, they reward knowledge of the game's history in a subtle way.

[thotcrime]

I find your choice of 1 DRS/3 PtE interesting. Ever find yourself wanting more mana dude? What does your meta look like to allow use of Path?

[ESG]

I find your choice of 1 DRS/3 PtE interesting. Ever find yourself wanting more mana dude? What does your meta look like to allow use of Path?

I think the situation is that most decks don't have any basics to fetch, and if they do, they'll fetch out the one or two they have when Veteran Explorer hits the yard and won't have any more to retrieve for Path(s). Also, Siege Rhino creates a lot more pressure when the life loss isn't offset by life gain from Swords to Plowshares.

Edit: Of course, it also could be that Matt just doesn't have Summer Swords to Plowshares.

[sdematt]

I think the situation is that most decks don't have any basics to fetch, and if they do, they'll fetch out the one or two they have when Veteran Explorer hits the yard and won't have any more to retrieve for Path(s). Also, Siege Rhino creates a lot more pressure when the life loss isn't offset by life gain from Swords to Plowshares.

Edit: Of course, it also could be that Matt just doesn't have Summer Swords to Plowshares.

Path is better here for the reasons stated above. I think even if I had Summer Swords, I still wouldn't play them.

As for the 1-of DRS, sometimes you want him, and othertimes you don't. He's more of a hatebear in a sense, but he's also acceleration #5. Example, you're in a situation where your opponent has basic lands in library, but is hosed. Veteran Explorer might let them pull out of a bad game state, so you take it slow with DRS instead. Also, he slowly nukes their graveyard, which can be relevant, especially in the grindy game states with UR Delver. Life gain is also a plus. Do I want to run more? Generally, no. If I'm in need of more mana against decks, generally Carpet is coming in against those decks because I either have to remove Vet or I very quickly want to nuke their mana denial plan (aka RUG Delver).

Since myself and 4 others have every card, the meta is super diverse. Someone could show up with Imperial Painter one week and Moat Stompy the next. Generally, we have a player who cycles through various Delver/Blade/Storm; me on Nic Fit/Jund/Junk/whatever I want; another guy on Lands, Grixis Delver, or ltierally whatever; a couple of Miracles players at times; a Sneak and Show player; a DnT player; an Elves/Tin Fins player; and a few others who show up with whatever we lend out. It's pretty open.

-Matt

[ironclad8690]

Picked up my 4th foil Siege Rhino today.

I am going to play Rhino Fit for the upcoming month until the Super IQ in Los Angeles and I will post my results here.

[Tao]

Not having played in a while I am curious if you actually have a plan to beat Miracles, Sneak and Show and Omnitell with Siege Rhinos. I am sorry if I miss something but to me these important matchups look like auto losses.

[thotcrime]

Not having played in a while I am curious if you actually have a plan to beat Miracles, Sneak and Show and Omnitell with Siege Rhinos. I am sorry if I miss something but to me these important matchups look like auto losses.

Brand new to Junk archetype, but allow me:
Miracles looks like it's still going to get Tusk beats/Thrun from the board beats, not to mention DRS exiling their cantrips from the yard. I think you're on the same plan of -Vets +Carpets and ramping into large attackers while Decaying the annoying bits. Also Sigarda walks through it. Gaddock Teeg doesn't look great here because of JTMS bounces.

SneakShow/Omnitell on the other hand looks rough. I feel like there should be O-Rings in the SB of anyone in a Sneak heavy meta. Probably Choke as well. Again, I'd take the Vets out and put the Carpets in, and lean heavily on discard while trying to stick a beater. It definitely doesn't feel like a good MU, but I play in a weird meta rife with creature decks and Storm players. I agree that this deck is a little shortsighted and is probably missing some hard-lock elements.

It'd be nice if there was a viable combo to plug into Junk (as RBG has Scapeshift)

Thoughts?

[UseLess]

Brand new to Junk archetype, but allow me:
Miracles looks like it's still going to get Tusk beats/Thrun from the board beats, not to mention DRS exiling their cantrips from the yard. I think you're on the same plan of -Vets +Carpets and ramping into large attackers while Decaying the annoying bits. Also Sigarda walks through it. Gaddock Teeg doesn't look great here because of JTMS bounces.

I think it is safe to say that Gaddock Teeg is one of the best cards versus Miracles. It literally shuts down their win conditions as well as terminus. If you somehow manage to keep him alive through swords, they simply cannot win.

I'm still running BUGfit with Birthing Pod and having a great time with it. My only issue is the UR delver matchup, god I hate that deck. It's just as stupid as burn, but runs counters alongside lightning bolts... Yukh. Any tips/tricks/comments are welcome regarding this matchup, it feels nigh unwinnable from a BUG fit point of view.

[thotcrime]

I think it is safe to say that Gaddock Teeg is one of the best cards versus Miracles. It literally shuts down their win conditions as well as terminus. If you somehow manage to keep him alive through swords, they simply cannot win.

I'm still running BUGfit with Birthing Pod and having a great time with it. My only issue is the UR delver matchup, god I hate that deck. It's just as stupid as burn, but runs counters alongside lightning bolts... Yukh. Any tips/tricks/comments are welcome regarding this matchup, it feels nigh unwinnable from a BUG fit point of view.

Lmao, I forgot that JTMS can't be played with Teeg on the board. I'm sharp.

Knowing little about BUG, I would say Scooze and Tusk would do a decent job gaining you some life. What about the MU is so back breaking? The burn-to-face damage?

[Tao]

I think the same about Show and Tell but I think Miracles will just bury Junk in card advantage. DR Shaman doesn't put on enough pressure, Rhinos get plowed and Sigarda is easy Terminus fodder, too. And then they start drawing cards with Jace. I just can't see a way how the deck deals with the inevetiable "EoT Terminus into Jace". And with Miracles and Sneak and Show being s popular I am concerned that this deck is just a bad choice at the moment.

Edit: I think keeping Teeg alive against the digging power of BS, Ponder and Top is unrealistic and using a Therapy on StoP seems not the right way to approach the matchup.

[sdematt]

Not having played in a while I am curious if you actually have a plan to beat Miracles, Sneak and Show and Omnitell with Siege Rhinos. I am sorry if I miss something but to me these important matchups look like auto losses.

You're not wrong, but you're not 100% correct either. The red build of this deck, the Punishing Fires build, is going to be better against Blue based decks/Combo like you're suggesting. P. Fire is better at handling Jaces, and REB helps with the blue based combo and again, Jace. Slaughter Games is also an important card, but there will be times when you do just die because a single REB isn't enough.

So, how do we shore up these matchups? You're right, we can't always just attack with Siege Rhino and hope to get there, especially against Sneak and Omni. You do have cards to bring in to help buy you time, which is the main thing. Thoughtseize, Surgical Extraction, Cranial Extraction, and Gaddock Teeg all come in for the Sneak and Omni matchups. Gaddock Teeg at least forces them into the Show and Tell plan, and Siege Rhino makes their Griselbrand buffer less and less, as does Path to Exile. They will sometimes just dirt you, but I feel it's unlikely a single REB would have saved you, either.

For Omni, you're doing a similar thing. Try to get/grab Show and Tell, and keep Gaddock Teeg in hand for a resolved Show and Tell and hope they don't have Wish. If you get to Cranially Extract, depending on your hand, maybe you choose Wish. I will say both Show and Tell matches are not the greatest, but having a permanent based hatebear isn't the worst, either. You also have Karakas.

For Miracles, you have Carpet, Thoughtseize, Gaddock Teeg, Grip, and Cranial. Again, Slaughter Games is better but Gaddock Teeg shuts them out pretty well. Swords happens, and there's nothing you can do against that. You have to try and resolve/protect Teeg, but realistically, you don't want Jace to land. You want to get rid of Top first, then stop Jace since you have many more ways to deal with Entreat. Cranial has to hit Jace.

With Siege Rhino, sure they can Swords them, but you have other creatures. The life loss isn't negligible, and Thrun and Sigarda to come to party many times. Terminus is a card, but there's nothing Punishing Fit can do against it either. Punishing Fit is better here, but I've won all the Miracles matchups I've faced as of late, and do feel decently confident in the matchup.

TL:DR

Red gives you more edge with Blasts and at times, P. Fires, in the matchups you listed, but white gives you different edges. In no way are the matchups cakewalks, and Sneak is likely the worst out of all of them.

-Matt

[Tao]

You're not wrong, but you're not 100% correct either. The red build of this deck, the Punishing Fires build, is going to be better against Blue based decks/Combo like you're suggesting. P. Fire is better at handling Jaces, and REB helps with the blue based combo and again, Jace. Slaughter Games is also an important card, but there will be times when you do just die because a single REB isn't enough.

So, how do we shore up these matchups? You're right, we can't always just attack with Siege Rhino and hope to get there, especially against Sneak and Omni. You do have cards to bring in to help buy you time, which is the main thing. Thoughtseize, Surgical Extraction, Cranial Extraction, and Gaddock Teeg all come in for the Sneak and Omni matchups. Gaddock Teeg at least forces them into the Show and Tell plan, and Siege Rhino makes their Griselbrand buffer less and less, as does Path to Exile. They will sometimes just dirt you, but I feel it's unlikely a single REB would have saved you, either.

For Omni, you're doing a similar thing. Try to get/grab Show and Tell, and keep Gaddock Teeg in hand for a resolved Show and Tell and hope they don't have Wish. If you get to Cranially Extract, depending on your hand, maybe you choose Wish. I will say both Show and Tell matches are not the greatest, but having a permanent based hatebear isn't the worst, either. You also have Karakas.

For Miracles, you have Carpet, Thoughtseize, Gaddock Teeg, Grip, and Cranial. Again, Slaughter Games is better but Gaddock Teeg shuts them out pretty well. Swords happens, and there's nothing you can do against that. You have to try and resolve/protect Teeg, but realistically, you don't want Jace to land. You want to get rid of Top first, then stop Jace since you have many more ways to deal with Entreat. Cranial has to hit Jace.

With Siege Rhino, sure they can Swords them, but you have other creatures. The life loss isn't negligible, and Thrun and Sigarda to come to party many times. Terminus is a card, but there's nothing Punishing Fit can do against it either. Punishing Fit is better here, but I've won all the Miracles matchups I've faced as of late, and do feel decently confident in the matchup.

TL:DR

Red gives you more edge with Blasts and at times, P. Fires, in the matchups you listed, but white gives you different edges. In no way are the matchups cakewalks, and Sneak is likely the worst out of all of them.

-Matt

For the matchup Rhino against Miracles, if I imagine myself as the Miracles pilot, I can't see how I could possibly lose this matchup. I am really not sure how you managed to get the wins against them. Maybe you were just the better player? For G1 with the deck from your last post Miracles can just fiddle around with Top, Ponder and Brainstorm for a few turns until they get Terminus into Jace and then outdraw the opponent.

I am not sure if Punishing Fire cuts it at this point against Miracles. Dig Through Time was a huge addition to Miracles in this matchup. Games were always very long and grindy and now they got such a gamebreaker. With Miracles and Show and Tell on top of the Meta I could imagine that Slaughter Games is a good MD card atm.

[sdematt]

He's not good in this deck. He's a dumb beater, and if you run him, if means you're running the Depth Combo, which we don't need. We don't play Wastelands, so we cannot fetch those either.

-Matt

[thotcrime]

How often are people hardcasting Siege Rhino as opposed to putting it out with GSZ?

I wonder if, instead of the Rhino package, 2 or 3 copies of Archangel of Thune and 1 or 2 Spike Feeder could pose a serious game plan? I want NicFit to be able to insta-combo out of the blue, to beat these other POS combo decks that we're all so tired of seeing.

Also, against Miracles, could we also consider siding out some copies of Deed/SDT to bring in Pithing Needle calling Jace/SDT?

Have any Junk players tested Enlightened Tutor? Can bring out copies of Carpet, SDT, Deed, ORing, essentially any hate cards we could ask for.

[Bobmans]

I am not sure if Punishing Fire cuts it at this point against Miracles. Dig Through Time was a huge addition to Miracles in this matchup. Games were always very long and grindy and now they got such a gamebreaker. With Miracles and Show and Tell on top of the Meta I could imagine that Slaughter Games is a good MD card atm.

I couldn't say if Junk or Jund NicFit is better, i played both for couple of weeks and i prefer Jund. But thats personal. It really depends on playstyle preferences cardchoices and whatnot.

With Abrupt Decay, Krosan Grip, Slaughter Games, Extirpate coupled with Carpet of Flowers, Choke, Cabal Therapy, Thoughtseize, Liliana, Punishing Fire, Eternal Witness, Maelstrom Pulse and SDT the matchup is a nightmare for Miracles. Also i leave in a couple of GSZ and 2 Huntmasters to close out the game. Game 1 is always tricky. Playing tight and fast (but not overextending) is key here. Scoop fast if you know the game is developing bad. G2 and G3 are much better. I just build up mana and go out to snag some important cards away while trading resources. By the time i can fire away Slaughter Games i already snagged a Jace and Extirpated it. When Entreat is gone only thing left are Snapcasters or Clique's. Easy game when you can snag away all wincons with uncounterable cards. Dig Through Time doesnt help them either. It nearly feels like cheating. S&T goes a similar road with the exception that your opening has to be really fast. With Miracles you can just play some games of draw go until your ready to eat him up.

I have more concern for Treasure Cruise in Tempo shells. When trading resources and getting the attrition game going PFire NicFit is always getting out as the winner. BUT with TC that has been very hard. Everytime i played against that deck and was at a fine boardstate he would cast TC and i had to pull bunnys out the hat the get back from it or just die.

[ESG]

He's not good in this deck. He's a dumb beater, and if you run him, if means you're running the Depth Combo, which we don't need.

I don't disagree with your conclusion, but it's rather amusing that a gallant lady and utility creature is being called a "dumb beater" when in the other corner we have a rhino.

[Bobmans]

I don't disagree with your conclusion, but it's rather amusing that a gallant lady and utility creature is being called a "dumb beater" when in the other corner we have a rhino.

Well yes it fetches Karakas or 2 towers and whatnot. But unlike Maverick this deck doesnt really need that/has room fir it. Maverick can exploit Wasteland plus Thalia this way. In the end KotR functions the same as Tarmogoyf. And both underperform in NicFit. Trample matters a lot.