Brainstorm
Force of Will
Lion's Eye Diamond
Counterbalance
Sensei's Divining Top
Tarmogoyf
Phyrexian Dreadnaught
Goblin Lackey
Standstill
Natural Order
The fact that Wizard has banned Pod is further suggesting there is NO WAY Wizard would Ever Unban Survival. All you people who have ridiculous bias for this creature engine tutoring effect stuff need to get off that bandwagon.
Entomb and Imperial Recruite are still legal, I will ride those tutors until the very end.Originally Posted by twndomn
one-time creature tutoring spell is Not the same as repeatable creature tutoring engine/permanent. I'm addressing Survival and Pod, you are referring to spell, apple vs orange. Allow me to reiterate, Survival did not, will not, get unbanned. Why do we have that Survival pipe dream before the release of every new set?
I guess that some people might want to play with it, so they dream about it being unbanned prior to the B&R updates.
My guess is that it will just go back to what it was pre-TC (Miracles, TA, Shardless, Deathblade)
You mean the top tier (12 decks) at around 55% of all top 8s, that sounds fantastic. Maybe even some cool Dragon combo could show up.
If we're fair, what you're suggesting is the same thing. You get the faeries either way and deck them either way. While it's correct that an Eldrazi could slip through; they'd have no way to cheat it into play; so it's a bit moot.
Sooo... When is the next update of the B&R-list
March 23 Monday 8:00 am PST.
My guess is we're probably back to the norm of no-changes at this point. It's possible that WGD will get out of hand and they'll re-ban it but doubtful. The meta will just become blue and whiter instead of blue and redder with a bit more blue - black - x thrown in.
WGD is a 3 card combo at least and that's not going to be consistent enough to be scary. It would be kind of cool if Reanimator made a big comeback though. Then something other than WGD would get banned from the list no doubt.
Some of us already own playsets, and want to use the card outside of EDH.
Though they have made enough hate for Survival/vengevine (Pithing Needle, revoker, Graffdiggers Cage, Containment Priest + all the general GY hate) that it is probably be safe by now, and would be able to produce consistent decks that are not blue, which would appease the BS haters.
Considering they just banned Birthing Pod in Modern, which was basically its take on Survival decks, I doubt SotF is going to be unbanned anytime soon.
The BS haters wouldn't care if another list became consistent enough to compete in the meta. The problem with the blue shell is that it's 50%+ of the meta and it fosters power cards lists. Without the blue shell Tarmogoyf never goes to $200 in the first place. It was just the #1 win-con for the #1 consistency shell and then you had the lists that would normally play a cheap big beater in their colors. That made Goyf ubiquitous and it made green a color splashed into the blue shell as often as white was.
I'm guessing Uw is going to be #1 splash now and that will drive Goyf down some more while it lifts Stoneforge Mystics price into the normal range for a heavily used Legacy creature.
Goyf is rising or staying the same because you essentially can't play green in Modern now without Goyf, with very few exceptions. Jund/Junk are back in Modern, same for various UGx decks featuring Goyf.
It isn't going down without reprints.
Modern does make a difference, but Goyf dropped nearly $40 over the last 3 months as people found other win-cons in Legacy and Modern because Goyf was too chumpable. I'm not sure people are going to change their victory conditions back so quickly now that YP will be played less often. A scooze and 3 Goyfs seems like a pretty normal build at this point. Then you have the GSZ thing in Legacy where lists that play green and creatures and not the blue shell have really discovered how good tutoring up a tool box can be.
I don't think Goyf is going to dive in price but I would not be at all surprised to see if drop to $120 while SFM rises to $60 or so. I won't sell my Goyfs and I don't want to buy SFM's at this point but I expect to take a value hit overall.
Yeah it wouldn't necessarily be better than any of the Brainstorm decks. But over a long event it might provide enough consistency to push a creature deck through. Really the card that has been printed since the SotF ban that obsoletes it the most is GSZ. Adding all 8 to a medium pace creature deck dramatically reduces the business spells, and leads to worse opening hands (in a deck without Brainstorm to salvage laughable opening hands). Or you could play SotF with Brainstorm since hey, shuffle for G, and any redundant SotFs can get put back. Elves certainly doesn't want or need SotF. Order and GSZ are both way better in the face of nearly everything, SotF sidesteps priest and cage which is nice, but also is a -1 card.
First; you should expect that in a *very healthy* meta; at least 50% will be blue; because most decks are 2-3 colors; which means 50%-66% of the decks *should* have blue.
Second, why on earth would Goyf be bad at all right now? It was still in winning RUG/BUG lists that didn't bandwagon pre-ban and it's certainly going to see play in reinvigorated Jund/Junk lists, if nothing else.
GBx is much more viable again and I would only expect his price to rise sooner than later. The people who actually sold them while prices took a hit were fooling themselves and anyone thinking his price is about to go down (even in the next 6 months) is misguided. I doubt he'd drop for more than about 3 months if he *did* get a MM2 reprint; which I'm doubting.
Black
Blue
Green
Red
White
Black-Blue
Black-Green
Black-Red
Black-White
Black-Blue-Green
Black-Blue-Red
Black-Blue-White
Black-Green-Red
Black-Green-White
Black-Red-White
Blue-Green
Blue-Red
Blue-White
Blue-Green-Red
Blue-Green-White
Blue-Red-White
Green-Red
Green-White
Green-Red-White
Red-White
11/25 have blue or 44%.
There are a few lists that are 4 and 5 colors but those are fairly rare in the overall meta. So let's say 50% overall should have some blue in them.
However that's not really the issue here, as you know. The issue is that blue is the majority of the spells in almost all the lists that splash blue, which is 70% of them at this point. Having the 5 lists in the DTB section having 136 out of 186 colored spells be blue is the issue.
Right?
This btw argues for banning Force of Will, since it is the card that ultimately determines what percentage of the cards played in the meta will be blue, since it requires many other blue spells to be effective.
You can't be serious with that list. You expect every possible color combination to be viable, including MonoC decks? We're lucky there's *a* MonoC deck that is often top tier. Let's start with "there is some bit of meta-game that has to exist." and the popular definition is that combo should be a part of that metagame. Since you need to at least have a *chance* against combo you need a true anti-combo color; which is U, W, or B. R sometimes counts but let's be real.
Now, just spamming discard/counters/bears will sometimes get you there, but not against savvy/good opponents and not reliably; so most decks to have said "chance" against combo have to have two colors from the anti-combo colors (because you need to attack them down multiple avenues or they can work around you.)
This means you have
UBx, UWx, and BWx decks as truly viable candidates for a diverse metagame, which is something like 10 color combos. Anything deferring from the below list should be considered an anomaly:
UB
UW
BW
UWB
UWR
UWG
UBR
UBG
BWR
BWG
That would be 70%.
If we're fair, that doesn't count the combo decks themselves and doesn't count R as an anti-combo color (while it can semi-function that way with EotGR and REB, depending) and it doesn't count things like Null Rod, Sphere of Resistance, and other artifacts as proper hate; so you may have some argument that we should see more of the other combinations; but I just don't see your argument as being realistic.
You're expecting there to be no meta-game influence and nothing that can't be countered by swapping Card A with Card B. With your expectations you would have to examine the top 25 every event and have an average of all of those showing up; despite some strategies being boring, painfully obvious, and without personalities influencing it.
EDIT:
Further, whether you're a non-blue player or not; why would you *ever* advocate getting rid of FoW? It's terrible against fair (often being non-blue) decks and it's good against combo (which often preys on fair non-blue decks.) You're asking for a meta that is *absolutely saturated* by combo and Black. There's nothing else you could do aside from Silence effects T1; and in both of these scenarios your desired format would be a mulligan to an answer, hope it's enough, with whoever goes first often winning. You're asking for a format where your matches for the day reads something like:
-Oops
-Belcher
-UBW
-Dredge
-Oops
-Dredge
-UW
Great format.
No, I just expect one color not to so completely dominate the meta that the 5 best lists in the meta aren't sporting spells of that color for 73% of their colored spells.
Really crappy meta.
And I'd be just fine against combo in mono-black or mono-white, however despite the fact that those are both single color lists which can play the same number of lands that the cantrip shell plays they can't sort out bad draws well enough to compete with that shell. They can't reliably resolve their defenses against anything with Force of Will as a main constant in the format.
If you organize any competition and then consistently give one style of competing better tools the competition is going to become all about that style. That's where we are now.
I would advocate getting rid of Force of Will because I'm not afraid to occasionally lose on turn zero. I lived through that meta once. It was a good meta. Yeah, occasionally you lost on turn zero. It happens. This isn't chess. Being forced to play blue list after blue list because everybody thinks Force of Will is necessary is asinine. You lose on turn zero now and then, get over it. You'd have the ability to create dozens of good lists that usually don't lose on turn zero once you get past the fact that sometimes you lose on turn zero.
Guess what?
Even when you have Force of Will in your list sometimes you don't have it on turn zero, but most of the combo lists have Gitaxian Probe now so a lot of the time they'll know you don't have it and you'll lose on turn zero anyway *if* they got their nut draw. In a format constrained by Force of Will into a tight little circle jerk in which you're going to play the same things over and over and over again. Losing on turn zero now and then but without being able to do much more than play the net decks anyway.
Capeesh?
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