Tell me about it. Spell Pierce is crap, right?
The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.Originally Posted by useL
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T1 Shaman
T1 Island
T2 Liliana, Spell Pierce (return island) Cast daze -> Discard CB? :(
Okay. Them having Shaman, Lili, Daze, 2 Lands is definitely comparable to having just Shaman Lili. Especially when they only play 2-3 Dazes.
The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?
Wow... Do you guys ever consider that the whole plan of miracles is grind for the lategame and by then cards like Spell Pierce, Thoughtseize and Daze are bad? Spell Snare is a hard counter the whole game.
Truly, the longer the game goes the more confident I tend to feel about winning that game in general.
Yes we do.
However, a turn 2 liliana is usually VERY hard to win against.
1: I don't think Lili is that good.
2: The argument was specifically Pierce Vs Snare, which involves T2 Lili. That is the most obvious situation, as far as I am aware, that Pierce is better than Snare. On the play with Island, Island, Pierce, Cantrip is another one. You keep up T1 Pierce against discard, and if they don't have anything, you have T2 Pierce for Discard or threats.
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There won't be a long game if your opponent goes turn 2 ritual, ritual, ad nauseam, when you only have one island and a spell snare. The same can be applied to entomb, reanimate, when you have one untapped island.
Yes, Spell Snare is a hard counter the whole game, but it usually shines against fair decks. Unfair decks? not as consistent.
You are certainly right, spell snare is terrible vs show and tell variants... but come on.... storm, really? Did everyone stop playing Infernal tutor yesterday? And vs reanimator it's certainly fine... I mean it stops both exhume and animate dead. The strenght lies in how good it is on the draw vs most of the field. Counterbalance, stoneforge mystic, tarmogoyf, dark confidant. Nobody seems to grasp that against the decks in your examples the opponent can just PAY 2 mana to stop Spell Pierce. What if your opponent have another ritual in your corner-case ritual-ritual-Adn scenario? Not to mention that it's 4 times as likely he is going off with IT (or even burning wish). This combined with the fact that Spell Pierce is a terrible topdeck makes it overall worse than Spell Snare. You can list all the cards you want that each of these 1-mana counterspells can stop, it's the overall use of the card in a real game of Magic that counts. I can certainly see Spell Pierce beeing better or worse depending on the rest of your deck. If you durdle with Legends then Pierce is a fine choice to keep things honest but in a low-curve, high efficient, reactive list I rather have Spell Snare. And to me personally this is the best way to approach the deck, having it as consistent and effective as possible. One "upside" of spell pierce that people allways come back to is that it stops discard, mostly from fair decks like bug/jund. And again, why would you have a situational card in your deck that does nothing after 2-3 turns? Even if Spell pierce can potentially stop aether vial, liliana of the veil and counterbalance I would NOT keep them in a postboard game. So, is Spell Pierce strictly worse than Spell Snare? Of course not. Sneak and show becomes harder and sometimes a turn 3 Aluren kill you on the spot. So if you cut Spell Pierce for Spell Snare some adjustments need to be made in the sideboard, perhaps. I am also not sure if Spell Snare is good enough in the metagame so Im not really saying you should run it. If I was to play spell pierce (or maindeck reb for that matter) I would try my best to switch them with spell snare.
Here is a simple Miracles primer for the uninitiated!
http://www.moxboardinghouse.com/medi...y-uw-miracles/
I have a feeling running red in miracles is not optional at this point.
Can someone explain to me why we don't play Scroll Rack?
The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?
It's suboptimal with CB, and basically just a worse top.
I think that with the TC banning now it is time to come back with the old lists without maindeck REB. Do you think there is room for a couple of DTT?
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A lot of the old lists played REB maindeck, before TC. Maindeck REB wasn't so absurd in miracles, as you see SO many cards anyhow.
Show and Tell and FoW are already good reasons to run 3 in the 75.
May be we can drop the Hydroblast in the SB and the 1 Pyro in the list. Surely not all.
Also, Dig Through Time's main strenght was to be able to counter TC with CB... and that is now gone. I'd rather play the 4th Jace and the 4th Snapmage before anything else.
Well, I'm not so sure about that. I'm quite happy with my configuration of 2 Jtms, 1 DTT and 3 Snapcasters. 4 Ponders 4 Brainstorms and 4 tops are good enough to find Jace, and 80% of the games I don't even need it, in fact most of the times it sits in hand because I have better things to do. Very rarely I use it as a finisher, although it happens sometimes.
Also Dig was crucial everytime I resolved it, as you should hold your Brainstorms, Dig almost always becomes ''search ETA and protection, or ETA and Brainstorm''.
Edit: and I never countered TC with it, and it's a great Pyroblast bait if you need to resolve Jtms/Cb/Force of Will the following turn.
Are you into Jazz? Have a look at the Lp's I have for sale on Discogs!
I hope it will not take too much time as last time.
I REALLY disagree with this.
DTT is insane in the mirror. It's REALLY good in the 4 ponder lists.
personally I've gone -1 CB, +1 DTT and I've been incredibly happy with this (as a response to more Abrupt Decay local.)
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