Just be very careful about wastelanding into Crop Rotation. It's one of the ways they can beat piles of wastelands. Try to clock them or PW pressure them - make them act and waste in response, rather than wasting into open mana if you haven't seen their hand or put an MM naming crop rotation.Originally Posted by L105
@LarsLeif
Ok thank you so much for your advices, I'll make sure to test against 12 post and I promise that I'll attack their mana base very well^^
PS. I recently tested against MUD and I totally destroyed it just by using Wasteland (3 in the first 3 turns)
Also - Tested misdirectionx1. Was unimpressed. Highly situational of a situation we're not crafting very often. Gonna try hymnx1 in that slot, see if the mana is workable with a 4waste build.
do you guys board meddling mage against miracles? Has worked out quite well for me, but I'm not too sure as they're running swords, blasts and snapcaster mages and terminus (unless you name it) ? I'd rather run them instead of forces
I don't board MM against Miracles. They have too many ways of getting rid of them, and we haven't got that many dead cards to take out either.
ashiok has been hitting the mark against miracles
Relatively new to the deck so, rather than read everything from page 1, could someone give me a TL;DR synopsis about why the title of this thread is "BUG Shardless Control" but the MTGTop8 lists all the Shardless BUG decks as Aggro/Midrange? Question to all: do you consider this to be a control deck or an aggro deck?
Depends on the match up and what you draw.
I would say that the title here on thesource is slightly misleading, I always think of this deck as Aggro-Control (or Midrange, although that is a troublesome category to define). As stated above, depending on our draw, we either assume control (like in Mass Effect! :P ) or we play out more aggressive.
I am inclined to call Shardless BUG aggro-control with the emphasis on control side. The usual development features slowing down your opponent's progress with discard, removal and Force of Wills to survive until a point when you have plenty of mana (3+) and can start casting threats thus making it more difficult for your opponent to recover. CA helps to ensure that both parts of the plan can happen. At least that is how I usually operate with this deck and it sounds fairly Control to me. Midrange is probably a good definition for Shardless as well, but it means aggro-control, as far as I know.
Actually, this deck is rather similar to Punishing Jund in terms of playstyle and I for one consider Jund to be a control deck before aggro.
Could you expand on this please?
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
I guess he means so that you can screw up their top deck manipulation, if they're trying to Entreat? Seems a bit situational though, as they could still do this EoT, no?
hi,
just registered cause i found the best input for shardless bug across the net in this topic. Really like the ideas spreading over here and testing a lot of them. The only point i dont really get, how the **** can you guys afford playing 4 wastelands + basics in the same 60? Everytime i tried basics maindeck or raising the wasteland count, i felt like i remarkebly screwed much more often. Right now the losses due to screw tend towards zero, which im perfectly fine with. But with the slightest changes i regularly see unplayable hands, especially with 4 wastelands
Could you post your decklist? It would help to know how many wastes/lands you run?
looking for some md/sideboard cards that actually do well vs Burn but aren't too narrow. Im currently running 2 Chill in my board which are awesome, but only against Burn.. So I Was thinking about Scavenging Ooze (maybe 1 maindeck 1 sideboard?). Don't really know if he's worth it as he just dies to a Lightning Bolt unless you get to remove 2 creatures and use 2 green mana which makes him rather slow in this scenario, but he can gain you some crucial life later on giving you some extra time which is huge as well. Furthermore he helps against ANT, Dredge, Reanimator, RUG and other graveyard heavy decks, too.. I'm currently running 3 green sources (1 Forest/Bayou/Trop) +4 DRS. Are 3 enough if im playing 1 main 1 side?
and are there any other suggestions?
SB Stuff im bringing in vs burn atm:
MM, 2 duress, 1 stp, (Chill)
Beforce i came here my list looked like this:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless Agent
2 Baleful Strix
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Brainstorm
2 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
3 Force of Will
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
2 Wasteland
2 Creeping Tar Pit
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 4 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Scrubland
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Engineered Plague
SB: 3 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Forest
SB: 1 Swamp
already approved changes from my original list are going to be:
Maindeck:
- 2 strix + 2 deluge
- 1 Hymn + 1 Sylvan Library
SB
- 1 Cage + 1 Containment Priest
- 1 E Plague + 1 NoSB
Those were the results of my last tests so far, but the main number of games i made with the list above
It really depends on you maindeck configuration, i.e how many difficult mana-requirements like strix, hymn etc you run. The version with 4 wastes generally play without these and can use the wasteland for mana if need be. Generally speaking as a person that's played both the versions with few wastelands and 4 wastes I can say that yes, playing 4 wasteland will give a small % more screw, but that is outweighed by a much higher % of free game wins that playing quad waste provides. And that's not even considering going up against the mirror and punishing fire decks, where wasteland is super good even if it doesn't win by itself.
I think that the green sources for ooze are at a dangerous low. I discussed Ooze with Lejay before during the TC era but we dismissed it then for that reason. If you get to untap with it it's pretty good, but keep in mind that there usually isn't that many creatures in graveyards when you face burn and eating them with Ooze only gains 1 life while eating them with DRS gains 2.
I think that the best card against burn (that is also viable vs other decks) is Jitte, even though it is slow it sort of forces your Burn opponent to kill all your creatures, if they didn't bring in smash to smithereens or something.
Ok, so i guess it is Kind of a meta decision as well. I will stick with 2 wastelands since biggest Part of the played Decks over here are elves, miracles, dnt and all sorts of blade builds. Maybe i will try a third wasteland, i will See... Thanks anyway!
I'll second this. I was always playing 2 or 3 Wastes (depending on build), but decided to up it to 4 and accept the awkward games. Playing a T1 Shaman followed by waste + 2 drop is so powerful.
How has Liliana been for everyone? She's been incredibly underwhelming for me recently and will be cutting her to try other options.
Yeah, DRS into wasteland is the best of the best, the tempo-swing is so huge. Liliana has been an ok (just ok) but necessary card for me. So she remains but if you find a nice replacement that does most of what she does but better I'm all ears.
What is the necessary role that she is playing? Deluge cleans up TNN easily, and I don't think she is very good outside of midrange mirrors that we are already geared to beat. I'm trying out Clique in her place. It provides more disruption for combo decks G1, and pressures PWers enough to be able to cut Malestrom Pulse (which I've always found horribly clunky, but necessary).
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote