[Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

[emidln]

So you choose to ignore that pushing S&T (which is often paired with Boseiju these days) though Thalia, counterbalance, Wasteland, counters, etc. is miles easier than chaining 10 spells together (which need more mana to begin with) against the beforementioned cards?

There is no "lie" involved.

Just going to note that basically everything besides Omniscience isn't worth Showing into play in a variety of matchups. Having a card that is 2U, win the game is great, except when in a significant portion of your matchups it's actually "flip a coin, win the game". Dropping a legend into play hasn't been reliable in a long time. Omniscience (or Dream Halls which sees no play anymore) is still fairly reliable. SnT->Omniscience is also at least a three card combo, also typically requiring finding specific answers post-board prior to comboing.

ANT (including TES here) is still the most streamlined deck in Legacy and it's not even close. It has tradeoffs with Doomsday regarding rituals vs cantrip effects which affect things the decks can or cannot do vs hate, but both are way more reliable combos than any current Show and Tell strategy. Show and Tell has other benefits, but simply being a two card combo that instantly wins most matchups isn't actually one of them.

[iGrok]

Going for a tendrils kill against D&T seems... dumb. Shouldn't you be going for Lab Man there?
Their out is StP, and Jitte if they already have counters, and you should be able to deal with those through discard...

[Lemnear]

Just going to note that basically everything besides Omniscience isn't worth Showing into play in a variety of matchups. Having a card that is 2U, win the game is great, except when in a significant portion of your matchups it's actually "flip a coin, win the game". Dropping a legend into play hasn't been reliable in a long time. Omniscience (or Dream Halls which sees no play anymore) is still fairly reliable. SnT->Omniscience is also at least a three card combo, also typically requiring finding specific answers post-board prior to comboing.

ANT (including TES here) is still the most streamlined deck in Legacy and it's not even close. It has tradeoffs with Doomsday regarding rituals vs cantrip effects which affect things the decks can or cannot do vs hate, but both are way more reliable combos than any current Show and Tell strategy. Show and Tell has other benefits, but simply being a two card combo that instantly wins most matchups isn't actually one of them.

I guess it's fine to move further than S&T/SneakAttack + Emrakul/Griselbrand for discussing a plain two-card-combo not only for the sheer presence of Karakas or Containment Priest but to look at Omniscience, which is a three-card-combo ... at least technically, because the whole deck is full of cantrips and you can chain those for free with Omniscience in play to find what you need, which however would bring me back to the topic of mana and to the fact that even if Ritual + Doomsday resp. S&T + Omniscience resolve, there is still a giant gap of commitment done and/or resources needed to continue from here. There is a big difference between getting your Ideas Unbound (DDFT) countered or your DTT (OmniTell) taking passed turns, mana, Boseiju, lifeloss and plenty of other factors into account and I feel there isn't any significant edge over the formats other combo decks other than getting around 'yard-hate and comon storm-specific hate like Thalia/Canonist/Flusterstorm.

I'd support Kai's ideas about Counterbalance and especially DTT in here, not only because the function of Counterbalsnce+Top to break the combo mirror but also due to its ability to protect LabMan while DTT is a perfect option to grab missing combo parts while creating cardadvantage. The problem imo here comes with thinking a step further if you run a deck with so many cantrips and DTTs: Why grab DR+Doomsday over S&T+Omnicience?

#ComboStreamlined

[Namida]

Going for a tendrils kill against D&T seems... dumb. Shouldn't you be going for Lab Man there?
Their out is StP, and Jitte if they already have counters, and you should be able to deal with those through discard...

I could be missing something here, but I actually side out Maniac against Death and Taxes.

If we're assuming your opponent isn't a goldfish and not giving you infinite time to play around the "Taxes" part of their deck, then a topdecked Swords to Plowshares, Thalia, Phyrexian Revoker, Ethersworn Canonist, Wasteland, or Rishadan Port can make you look foolish if you build a pass the turn pile, and Tendrils is easier to make "win-now" piles with.

[iGrok]

Sure, a top-decked StP sucks, but it's not worth playing around, especially since post-board they should be boarding StP out.
[edit]: fucked up my math.

=======

After rereading a bit, seems like y'all are on non-wish lists. Personally I think that's a mistake, but yeah...

[wonderPreaux]

So, I too was invited to join this discussion. I was waiting around thinking on some of this, so I have to play a little bit of catch-up here, sorry.

Personnally I didn't stop playing the deck because of the "same problems for years", but rather because the format's power level increased a lot and I consider omnitell to be the best combo deck.

in other words: the deck isn't able to compete on top level even among combo decks, which is what I said.

I don't think it's really fair to brand Doomsday as non-competitive because it's not "the best combo deck". Gun to my head, I'd say Omni-Tell is probably at least a little better than ANT/TES a lot of the time as well, that didn't stop Storm from eclipsing SnT during Cruise format, and it doesn't stop a good Storm pilot from winning a fair amount. A lot of that has to do with the difference between "best combo" in the format and "2nd best" is probably that the interaction you dodge by playing Storm is of slightly lesser value that the interaction you expose yourself to, so overall it's a small net loss. IDK how damning that is, and there are likely metas where it's not even an issue. There's also the factor of some people just being good at playing certain decks, I recall a post in the TES thread a while back where Bryant said he didn't think TES was the best deck in the format, but it certainly was the best deck for him. If people only truly played the best deck for a given role, the format would just be something like Team America vs. Miracles vs. Omnitell - the format. The purpose of this thread should be about:
1) closing the gap between this deck and the "best combo deck" or advancing that gap if/when this is the best combo deck
2) helping people identify metagames or personal proficiency that invalidates the gap between this deck and the "best combo deck"
3) promoting the pinnacle of technical play from all users/developers of the deck because if no one is willing/able to use the deck when it has its time to shine, everyone has missed an opportunity

I don't see the point of the engine/main combo card making card disadvantage. It's a super tutor that converts your ressources into a win. By thinking exclusively in terms of card advantage or CD you would qualify show and tell as a card disadvantage card that doesn't deserve any play either.

there is a difference between "S&T + Threat" or "Dark Ritual + Doomsday + way to draw into the pile + having enough mana to do something + have a way to play around hate". Another aspect: S&T costs 3 total; how much total is a win-now-doomsday? Twice as much.

I feel like it's a bit unfair to compare the requirements of Doomsday to SnT here, especially the way you presented it. It's not as though SnT decks don't have to protect their combos too, and FoW is a pretty draining card to use for that purpose. Moreover, part of the reason that Omni-Tell is arguably stronger than Storm is that, yeah, you go "all-in" less and getting a SnT Forced or w/e still leaves you with 3 others, but that's an advantage it has over every Storm list, not just Doomsday. Further, a win-now Doomsday does cost 6, but a win-now PiF loop or Ad Nauseam is usually 7 and require just as many, if not more, piece to assemble than Doomsday. Going further, Doomsday can accelerate it's piles by using cantrips as make shift rituals through piled LEDs, so you can actually drop that pile cost down, whereas ANT/TES have to play plain accelerators which can become blank against hate/control scenarios. I don't think ANY storm deck can necessarily compete with Omni-Tell when it comes to committing less to a win, but Doomsday can certainly hang with the other storm decks.

Thanks to burning wish you don't rely on doomsday that much. I was winning a decent amount of the time with Time spiral, empty the warrens and natural storm built by draw spells and/or sensei/sensei storm. All of these have been used in doomsday piles but it also is used to win without doomsday.I won a ton of time without a hand, that's a strength of sensei.

That is fair in regard to Burning wish to find a win aside the resolved Doomsday. The most wins I remember with the help of SDT came through Helm of Awakening ;)

While some of the options that Lejay lists (EtW/Spiral) aren't used, Lejay does make a fair point about how well you can handle a grindy game. With the ability to make so many land drops, you can just put together a 2 card combo of Doomsday + cantrip and that alone can win you the game. Much like Omni-Tell, it's more like a 2.5 card combo as you would certainly want some other card there to jump start whatever it is you're doing, but I do think it's impressive how resilient Doomsday can be without necessarily relying on a graveyard or a life total.

A relevant statement. Yes, I consider doomsday lost its main advantage over ANT. I haven't really played the storm decks these last two years but in my mind there was still match to determine the best deck, and if PiF storm gained the edge, it's not a big one.

I consider this debatable, but I don't want to get lost in details about advantages of certain storm-buildarounds. It's about Doomsdays place in the evolving metagame and potential to ascend from it's "tier 2" status which I can't see without breaking out of a shell which imo didn't substantially changed for the last 5 years.

I can't help but feel a weird chicken and egg thing going on here. "This deck hasn't changed in 5 years, there's no point playing it" > "No one is playing this deck, so it hasn't changed in X years" repeat Ad Infinitum. Unfortunately, yes, there have been few relevant printings for Doomsday, but there are noteworthy cards. Dig through Time could be big, Lab Man... actually came out in the same set as PiF, yes? There's also design space that people just never looked at. I recently tried SB Jace and liked it, Sawatrix mentioned that and Counterbalance (though idk how good the latter might be, it didn't seem to do high tide any favors). There's nothing stopping older cards from coming in as well, a slight shift could accommodate a value PiF engine, you could also use Street Wraiths for a faster Doomsday deck, or even go for pure value with Night's Whisper a la vintage.

I am not sure ad nauseam is immune to lightning bolt. If you answer "PiF" then we can find all kind of cards specifically screwing it. I almost always splashed white in doomsday and that negates a lot the post doomsday burn spell if your metagame has a lot of these. But it's still a fast deck and you don't have to be in bolt range in the first place, at least not much more than ANT/PiF storm.

Just between you and me: I have no clue why people kill themselves with Ad Nauseam other than greed or stupidity especially if they know their opponent is running Bolts. That's a mistake you maybe make once or twice as a beginner, but I don't know why that sticks as a stigma of playing Ad Nauseam. Point is that between PIF/AN/EtW storm has more than enough tools to deal with plenty of hate. Shut off the yard? Drop Goblins or cast AN. I could continue the list, but you get the idea. A big difference here however is that a card like PIF is pretty much counterproof compared to the post-Doomsday Ideas Unbound which adds up to the card-disadvantage of casring Doomsday and is a very critical moment.

I think it's debatable to call PiF "counter-proof" when graveyard hate is so prevalent. There's also the issue that DRS eats both your yard and your life, hurting both your engines (he even profitably blocks Goblins!). PiF is certainly powerful though, and it is a massive step up compared to something like IGG. The difference that should really be highlighted is power versus precision, Ad Nauseam and EtW are way more powerful than a backup plan of trying a different DDay pile, for instance, but they introduce a lot of variability to your win. The high amount of incidental grave hate you run into is just a meta-driven variability that Past in Flames encounters. I still think Past in Flames and Ad Nauseam are some of the most powerful cards you can be playing, but I can't help but feel there is definite merit to "pick the exact five cards that win you the game here".

If your dark rituals do things for you without any engine/storm spell you are way better than me. But in this deck rituals help also with burning wish, as it would with any other engine that could be/was in the deck.
I am sure you could answer that alone. But dark confidant is a slow card for this deck, it also is a creature which turns on all common removals.

The topic of Rituals is complex as I talked about in in context of a storm-less DD list OR potentially additional use for it by running more black spells like confidant to actually profit from the relative life-independant concept and more controlling nature.

I'm not sure if Confidant is the card you want for this deck. Lab Man makes the cut as a creature here, but it literally wins the game and can do so with Chromatic Sphere to shield it from removal. There are a few good card advantage engines you can be running, though. DTT, Jace, Whisper etc. One thing I will say about Dark Ritual, and running Tendrils, is that you are afforded the ability to accelerate your combo more than OmniTell can with just Sol Lands (if we're still doing that comparison, iirc they don't run Lotus Petal) and you also have a way to win the game with out ever touching Doomsday, mainly by stringing a lot of spells into a wish for Tendrils (or I guess EtW if you run it). This is a pseudo-parallel to Lem's earlier point about having AdNaus/PiF/EtW as supplements to your game plan, running Storm in Doomsday is just affording yourself more options (i believe it is also more mana efficient than trying for a protected lab man pile when it comes to winning the same turn, but I could be wrong there).

Infernal tutor has been played for years in doomsday. It was even in the first lists from emidln who was trying to find which split of DD/IT was the best and his conclusion was 0 IT - Max DD.
Lab man and shelldock have both been played a lot in DDFT, even if I personnally never liked Lab Man. Burning not only fetches doomsday the combo turn like IT. It also fetches it pre combo, fetches other engines, fetches solutions and the most important, it makes the doomsday engine better just by being in the deck since playing BW-> ToA through double LED increases the storm count and provides many more turn one kills that would just deal 18 otherwise.

I'm aware of the additional stormcount. Still dunno if that justifies the color-splash with returning Wastelands to the format.

I think, given all the things Burning Wish does, it's probably worth the slots it takes up. Cutting the ~3 Wishes requires the addition of the other Doomsday and the ToA, so it only frees up one slot and you would need to likely change more than one other slot to add more cards to find your win condition. regarding the color splash and Wasteland vulnerability, I'm not sure it's much worse than TES or 2xPiF builds of ANT, you even have the occasional case of Chromatic Sphere making it playable off of all basics. I will add, though, that a maindeck ToA could be a decent card to have for fighting Miracles or Stoneblade.

(ant is way more favoured to fight through a ton of counters than doomsday with discard only)

So in my opinion the way to get a chance to win against blue decks (tempo and miracles) is to splash white for chants. But then again we are 4-color main and become weaker against stifle and wasteland. So i'm currently testing to cut burning wishes completly since i always hated half of my business spells to be some kind of off-color anyway (and cutting wishes already is a viable boarding plan against rug-delver for example). So why not go without them mainboard if we expect a lot of delver decks?
I think the worst parts about cutting wishes are the lost +1 stormcount in every tendrils pile and the decreased business spell count.
These issues could be solved to some extend by labmaniac and an increased cantrip count.

Advantages would be a way better tempo, miracles and storm matchup with chants while our manabase remains as stable as in Ubr doomsday. Furthermore we get a lot free slots in our sideboard to dedicate to non-blue matchups (terminus?) and to fight dual-angle-hate postboard more easily.

I know most players would never agree to cut burning wishes but for me it seems like a viable way to go in order to make it more competitive.

I disagree with your evaluation of chants and cutting wishes for them. your protection spells can be just as important to you as your business spells, so why is it ok that your protection is off color whereas half your business spells being off color isn't? Moreover, if you take out wishes, and then need to add in Tendrils and Doomsday, how is that one slot you save providing enough room for all the extra cantrips you may need to find Doomsdays and increase storm count, as you put it? I also don't see how this gives you a better storm matchup as your piles are now less efficient so that early kill piles would only deal 18 damage, you also lose the utility of Wishes being Doomsday OR Tendrils OR discard OR Cruel Bargain. For Miracles or Delver, I'm pretty sure the reason you side out Wishes there is for Spell Snare or Hydroblast, I think decreasing your count of threats against Miracles is likely the opposite of what you want to be doing. You also mention postboard solutions to dual-angle hate, do you mean discard? If you're using your sb as a round-about solution to a problem you introduce for yourself due to your main deck choices, how good can that choice really be?

This actually took me forever to write out, I have a lot on my mind about this deck. As I mentioned earlier, there is a ton of unexplored space here, and this deck can do some interesting things that other Storm lists can't. I won't try and sell it as the best combo deck, because it likely isn't, but i don't think its particularly unplayable.

[emidln]

Counterbalance is pretty bad in Doomsday unless you are facing another combo deck. The reason is that even if you assemble CB/SDT with 1/2/3 before your opponent has any threats (optimal scenario), you still need to find Duress/Theapy equal to the number of counters / removal spells they have to actually win the game. Consider this scenario:

Counterbalance+SDT in play, you cast Doomsday going for a Lab Man pile. We'll pretend for a moment that the only time they can break up the combo is when your draw spell is on the stack (although this isn't reality, and you'll likely need a boatload of mana and an extra SDT (maybe putting it in your pile) to keep Spell Pierce/REB dead while drawing through your pile). So you have a Lab Man in play, a Counterbalance in play, a SDT in play, and you go to win the game with SDT. Your opponent casts Swords to Plowshares. Now what?

For Counterbalance+SDT to have been effective you have to land it before your opponent has a reasonable threat (so basically only against combo decks that lack castable creatures) or have enough time to find additional draw spells/Duresses/mana to win through their removal anyway.

[l33twash0r]

So I'm new to this deck and been playing it only ~1 month or so and before this I started with SnT and then moved to Ad Nauseam & Ooops all my spells.

Just reading this now I started to wonder is this deck worth of the time it takes to learn in current meta? But I promised to myself I will learn this deck and will stick with it for sometime and try my best, but curious what you guys feel since there is so much arguing going on about other decks compared to this one.

[Ancestral]

So I'm new to this deck and been playing it only ~1 month or so and before this I started with SnT and then moved to Ad Nauseam & Ooops all my spells.

Just reading this now I started to wonder is this deck worth of the time it takes to learn in current meta? But I promised to myself I will learn this deck and will stick with it for sometime and try my best, but curious what you guys feel since there is so much arguing going on about other decks compared to this one.

the discussion about "best storm decks" i guess it will remain forever, this deck has his pros and cons, but now you have excelente players here tell their opinions on this so you got a good starting point to figure how is this deck works and is capacity for the current meta game! the deck is hard to play properly like everyone said, but i find it very rewarding, if you like combo deck (we can see that for you past decks :p ) i think oyu shuld give it a try, and then can share or thoughts about it ;)

[Oceanwalker]

I've been testing heavily with a 0 BW build. It feels like it has advantages with the manabase and for a tad more streamlined play (am not missing the +1 storm) but the lack of pre-board answers to certain things like Thalia definitely hurts. The discussion on stormboards re: W for Terminus is a possible good way to combat this.
I have also been testing out as many DTT's as I can jam in and they do some serious work.

I have tested DTT as well but i'm not sure if i really like it in doomsday. filling your graveyard as soon as possible isn't what DD wants to do. on the other hand it offers nice lines like cracking 2 LEDs in response to DTT during your turn, if you find DD and any cantrip among those seven cards you win. It also plays very well together with rain of filth.

I disagree with your evaluation of chants and cutting wishes for them. your protection spells can be just as important to you as your business spells, so why is it ok that your protection is off color whereas half your business spells being off color isn't? Moreover, if you take out wishes, and then need to add in Tendrils and Doomsday, how is that one slot you save providing enough room for all the extra cantrips you may need to find Doomsdays and increase storm count, as you put it? I also don't see how this gives you a better storm matchup as your piles are now less efficient so that early kill piles would only deal 18 damage, you also lose the utility of Wishes being Doomsday OR Tendrils OR discard OR Cruel Bargain. For Miracles or Delver, I'm pretty sure the reason you side out Wishes there is for Spell Snare or Hydroblast, I think decreasing your count of threats against Miracles is likely the opposite of what you want to be doing. You also mention postboard solutions to dual-angle hate, do you mean discard? If you're using your sb as a round-about solution to a problem you introduce for yourself due to your main deck choices, how good can that choice really be?

Thanks for your reply. You're right at some points, i will lose utility and will introduce the following new problem to the maindeck: no way to beat thalia (except maybe a one-off karakas). but burning wish is not very good at beating counterbalance or chalice either just like a non-wish build. once again, therefore you get a real sideboard to dedicate specific and reliable slots to any kind of permanent hate postboard, along with two angles of protection in form of discard AND chants.

Regarding the first turn kill. you can just build a basic maniac pile for the same requirements as the tendrils pile (land, ritual, DD, LED, probe) that wins on the spot.

[Chaam]

What do you guys think of taking a combo control approach? Basically making Doomsday into a control deck with a combo finish, akin to Menendian's Doomsday circa 2012?

Something like this:

Sorcery (23)
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
4 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Unearth
4 Doomsday

Instant (15)
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
2 Spell Pierce
1 Predict
4 Force of Will

Artifact (4)
4 Sensei's Divining Top

Creature (1)
1 Laboratory Maniac

Lands (17)
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
2 Island
1 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
1 Dread of Night
2 Flusterstorm
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Dark Confidant
2 Massacre

[wonderPreaux]

Thanks for your reply. You're right at some points, i will lose utility and will introduce the following new problem to the maindeck: no way to beat thalia (except maybe a one-off karakas). but burning wish is not very good at beating counterbalance or chalice either just like a non-wish build. once again, therefore you get a real sideboard to dedicate specific and reliable slots to any kind of permanent hate postboard, along with two angles of protection in form of discard AND chants.

You can pack meltdown or w/e if you have a lot of artifacts in your meta, so yes, wish can hit chalice. moreover, discard is better at handling counterbalance/CotV, because you have a chance to preemptively remove the two. discard+wish has chances against a lot of things, whereas you have to shoot off chants and hope for the best when you play with white. why clutter your 75 with an abundance of protection hoping that between all of it you'll be ok, when you can just run a reasonable amount of discard and have a small number of wishable solutions?

Regarding the first turn kill. you can just build a basic maniac pile for the same requirements as the tendrils pile (land, ritual, DD, LED, probe) that wins on the spot.

Unless the opponent has removal. AFAIK, the protected labman pile costs 2UU. This isn't even considering how much worse it then becomes to open with the Maniac in hand, or to open the Tendrils in aggro matchups, for example.

[Namida]

Sure, a top-decked StP sucks, but it's not worth playing around, especially since post-board they should be boarding StP out.

Unless you win with a Tendrils pile that hides Laboratory Maniac at the bottom of the pile, then your opponent has the opportunity to look through your whole deck to see that you have a pretty significant creature in your deck worth keeping Swords in to hit.

It's not just a topdecked Swords though--If you pass the turn, it could easily be the case that you suddenly you don't have enough mana to build your pile that beats the Swords in your opponent's hand (Wasteland, Rishadan Port, Thalia), or that you can only cast the top card of your pile (Canonist), or that your opponent just turns off LED or something (Revoker) and then you're dead. I have no interest in making my game plan to try to find an opening to pass the turn when all of the aforementioned cards are commonly played. At the point where I have decided that I don't want to pass the turn, I can easily play around Swords by having no creatures in my deck because I don't think that Maniac is actually playing around anything except fringe sideboard cards which prevent me from casting a Tendrils targeting my opponent, and those cards can be bounced/destroyed.

I could be wrong though. Why do you think that Maniac is better than Tendrils here?

[Asthereal]

I am not actually sure OmniTell is better than Doomsday (or any other Storm variant, for that matter). OmniTell just draws so many awkward hands. The beauty of Doomsday is that it contains zero bad cards. All cards are easily cast. Where OmniTell can easily draw a hand with an average spell CMC of 10. Yes, I know you can mull those hands, but mulling all the time is not where I want to be, personally.

I am not the best Storm player by far, but I actually prefer Doomsday to OmniTell for tournament play.

[Lemnear]

I am not actually sure OmniTell is better than Doomsday (or any other Storm variant, for that matter). OmniTell just draws so many awkward hands. The beauty of Doomsday is that it contains zero bad cards. All cards are easily cast. Where OmniTell can easily draw a hand with an average spell CMC of 10. Yes, I know you can mull those hands, but mulling all the time is not where I want to be, personally.

I am not the best Storm player by far, but I actually prefer Doomsday to OmniTell for tournament play.

Those clunky draws were the reason players cutted Enter the Infinite and Dream Halls for more cantrips (Brainstorm) to fix sketchy hands. It's not that storm is guaranteed to evade hands w/o business but all mana or that you would call hands with double Wish/Doomsday exciting to open with.

Unrelated: For storm and S&T I'd say that any hand with land(s) and at least 1 cantrip is no Auto-mull

[dte]

Those clunky draws were the reason players cutted Enter the Infinite and Dream Halls for more cantrips (Brainstorm) to fix sketchy hands.

You probably meant Dig?
The first iterations of Omnitell with 4 Enter and 3 Dream Halls were already playing 4 brainstorm, 4 Ponder, 4 preordrain.

[Asthereal]

Those clunky draws were the reason players cutted Enter the Infinite and Dream Halls for more cantrips (Brainstorm) to fix sketchy hands. It's not that storm is guaranteed to evade hands w/o business but all mana or that you would call hands with double Wish/Doomsday exciting to open with.

Unrelated: For storm and S&T I'd say that any hand with land(s) and at least 1 cantrip is no Auto-mull

I know, but on average I draw better hands with the Storm decks than with OmniTell.
I'm not saying I have conclusive evidence. I would just like to point out I disagree with the statement that OmniTell is the best combo deck right now.

[Lemnear]

You probably meant Dig?
The first iterations of Omnitell with 4 Enter and 3 Dream Halls were already playing 4 brainstorm, 4 Ponder, 4 preordrain.

No, I just highlighted Brainstorm as the usual fix-that-bad-hand-spell.

It's off to consider a hand which contains 2-3 copies of high cmc cards an auto mulligan (or even argue with that happening THAT OFTEN), if not only the total number of these were chopped in half in current iterations of the deck, but the slots EtI and DH occupied are now filled with cheap cantrips (Probe+DTT) which can find S&T or Brainstorm to drop or get rid of those High cmc cards. Not even talking about FoW fodder.

Doomsday does not have such a high redundancy in my opinion and can't turn the second Wish or Doomsday in your opener into value like OmniTell can with FoW and the increased ability to grab Brainstorm.

Edit:

I know, but on average I draw better hands with the Storm decks than with OmniTell.
I'm not saying I have conclusive evidence. I would just like to point out I disagree with the statement that OmniTell is the best combo deck right now.

That's not surprising as storm decks are totally reduced concepts of mana + engine card/card that get engine card into your hand and the actual kill only being 1-2 cards in the whole deck. S&T decks have a much tougher time balancing mana + enablers + engines/killconditions creating clunky hands at times. SneakShow has more than 4 times the number of kill-conditions stuffed in their deck compared to storm.

[Doishy]

No, I just highlighted Brainstorm as the usual fix-that-bad-hand-spell.

Doomsday does not have such a high redundancy in my opinion and can't turn the second Wish or Doomsday in your opener into value like OmniTell can with FoW and the increased ability to grab Brainstorm.
.

In this example is Brainstorm being used as a 'catch all' term? It's just I cannot quite see the parallel you are trying to draw here (maybe rephrasing would help?). The only thing really missing from DDay is the lack of preordain. Wishes can still be used for value to grab any needed things to fight main deck hate or utility spells that are value in this case such as early discard. A second doomsday is also fine allowing another attempt to go off if the first one fails or as with any card it can be brain stormed away.

When you say increased value with FoW for SnT, are you meaning it is okay to have multiple in the opener which actively helps you or am I missing the point?

[Lemnear]

In this example is Brainstorm being used as a 'catch all' term? It's just I cannot quite see the parallel you are trying to draw here (maybe rephrasing would help?). The only thing really missing from DDay is the lack of preordain. Wishes can still be used for value to grab any needed things to fight main deck hate or utility spells that are value in this case such as early discard. A second doomsday is also fine allowing another attempt to go off if the first one fails or as with any card it can be brain stormed away.

When you say increased value with FoW for SnT, are you meaning it is okay to have multiple in the opener which actively helps you or am I missing the point?

I should indeed rephrase it. The talk was about high cmc cards like Omniscience, DTT and others bricking your hand especially if dawn in multiples and forcing you into mulligans, which I disagree with as I consider it really unlikely that these cards harm your gameplan (and ergo validate a mulligan) in a deck which can not only pitch additional copies of that blue high cmc cards to FoW, but also has a premium access to Brainstorm to shuffle them away thanks to the insane redundancy created by Ponder/Probe/Preordain and, to a lesser extend, DTT itself.

so I don't consider a starting grip containing, for example, a DTT and two copies of Omniscience an automatic mulligan or "bad" per se while a second Doomsday or Burning Wish has near to no value in a starting grip in DDFT, unless you can shuffle it away with a Brainstorm as well (but also have less options to find it in the first place unless you consider endless look-fetch-look with SDT an adequate and economic way to deal with the problem)